Recently Closed Ksoze / Absolutely Thread - Do Stored telephone Numbers of Clients pose a security risk for those clients? Some would say Yes.

Nicely put SL,take responsibility for yourself!

I'm not gonna argue the wisdom/folly of providers or clients keeping numbers in their phones.

Just remember that the CELL PHONE COMPANIES have an extensive record of all texts sent and received (maybe not always the content of those texts, however) and the phone companies also have a record of all calls into and out of any cell phone - including burners.

Therefore, if LE insists on getting data from a phone, doesn't matter if the data is in the cell phone's contact list or not. LE may or may not need warrants (depending on the level of LE, city, state, federal, etc.) but there is no easy way a cell phone user can avoid or void most LE demands on cell phone companies.

Defense: be judicious in what you input, save and send. Try to diminish your LE radar profile. Providers cannot easily do this, but, good screening protocol can help avoid getting caught up in LE stuff.

Stings? Well, I those of us who are savvy enough don't have to fret much about those. Here's a key: If someone you know behaves a little off kilter, trust your gut and avoid. More than a few providers in my phone book send me texts all the time or call. If one of them made a direct solicitation, like mentioning services or prices, I'd have to think long and hard before replying, and then most likely I would pass.

"Hey, I got some extra time" or "I haven't seen you in a long time" or "Have you checked my ads lately" are OK by me. "How are you doing" works fine and we can proceed from there.

No judge is gonna accepts much of any text message as "evidence." However, LE can certainly use those as the basis for an investigation if the texts were acquired "legitimately." Some interesting recent court cases on this and it will be a while for the Supremes to consider, if ever they do.

With only a very few exceptions, vice is almost always going after the low hanging fruit because it is easier to acquire, saves time and budget dollars and it still makes news once in a while.

Indeed, ck1942 summed it up nicely.

"Contact Listing" has benefits, and it has risks. But so does everything else we do in the hobby world.

I think the risks are minuscule. As an example, I'd like to point out this thread:
Can a review be used as evidence in a prostitution case?

There are dozens of threads discussing risks vs. reward of many other activities. They all boil down to the same thing: do your research, know the risks, talk about it.

This was not a personal attack on Absolutely. I was merely pointing out that saving clients numbers "in general" is a form of keeping records that poses a big security risk and if Absolutely engages in this sort of practice then clients should be aware that if calling or txting her there is a chance their number might end up being stored in her phone. Originally Posted by kSoze

Are you kidding me. Every provider keeps your #. If there is a security risk in that then you don't know how to handle your business. If I txt a lady I've seen and she doesn't remember me I'm gonna be offended and never see her again. I'm expecting easy txt and appointment after the first session.

Now this doesn't mean I want an unsolicited txt. I'll call you don't you call me kind of thing unless we regularly communicate or I've told her to txt me anytime.

Are you kidding me. Every provider keeps your #. If there is a security risk in that then you don't know how to handle your business. Originally Posted by homer13

Even if she doesn't specifically store your number in her contact list, unless she regularly deletes her call/text history, your number will be in her phone. Most people don't bother to delete their history.

I'm also in the camp that doesn't see significant risk in a provider having your number in her phone, if they hobbyist is using a hobby phone. However, for the hobbyist, even if you have a burner hobby phone, it is a good idea to regularly clean out your recent calls, sent and received texts, etc. It'll be bad enough if your SO stumbles across your hobby phone, worse if she starts dialing the numbers you've been calling.

LETS REVIEW:
1) On Sep 30 Absolutely posted a request for her regulars or those she speaks with regularly that she lost all her contacts and to please re-send her their number by text.
2) A week later someone named Ksoze, whose account had begun the day before, asks Abs what appears to be a legitimate question, then immediately follows it up with another query that seems designed to insult her and provoke a fight.
3) Rocketride comes to Abs' defense minutes later with an explanation that makes it clear he considers the problem of records being stored vs kept in a phone to be one of semantics.
4) Ksoze then asks a stupid question. I'm not going to apologize for that characterization; it's a stupid question. Why would she need to store clients' numbers in her phone, you ask? WHY EVEN ASK WHEN SHE'S ALREADY ANSWERED? These were numbers of regulars and frequent callers. She TOLD US that. OF COURSE a provider would store such numbers; she'd be foolish not to.
5) Ksoze then turns on Rocketride, taking him to task for coming to Abs' defense.
6) Absolutely then offers a more detailed explanation of something that experienced hobbyists and providers already knew.
7) Sire weighs in that both are being silly, clearly not understanding what's going on. Ksoze is deliberately causing trouble, and Absolutely is defending herself.
8) Abs addresses Sire with observations about why this is happening.
9) Ksoze the jumps on Sire for calling the matter silly. Again, perhaps a matter of semantics, but Sire didn't say the matter was silly, he said the two of them were being silly. There's a difference, although some may lack the wherewithal to see it.
10) Ksoze then asks a very naive question about why the folks Abs talks to on a weekly basis wouldn't be texting her anyway. When a business person, regardless of what business they're in, loses all of their contacts, that person naturally takes steps to recover the lost information as soon as they can. That's just good business.
11) Here is where Ksoze goes completely and deliberately off the reservation, purposely trying to hurt Absolutely's business. He makes a statement that if Abs 'decides' to store their numbers, when she has already explained that she only does it if specifically asked. Clearly, Ksoze is trying to cause problems for Abs. His reasons are his own, but just as clearly he's a coward for doing it this way. The mod was right in closing the thread, and I have no problem with Abs requesting that it be closed.
12) Leaving out my partial agreement and partial disagreement with Whispers and Nuglet, how Ksoze can brazenly post that this was not a personal attack on Absolutely is beyond me. Dude, read what you wrote. Then think about it.
13) Abs, you don't need to defend yourself any more. Rational, thinking beings who read the entire string are satisfied with your explanation. Don't even respond to anything Ksoze has to say in the future; you shouldn't try to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

Yes ChicagoK9,this is the summary,minus the part where kSoze accuses one of the frequent callers of being a pimp!LOL. I think if you read the WK threads and subsequent blow up,you will notice a distinct similarity. Hope the person with the OCD tendencies behind that new handle is using a different IP address?

If this is not a security issue then, we are beating a dead horse at this point.

It's not a security issue as far as Abs is concerned, and you know it. She has explained herself, Rocket has confirmed some of what she told us, and if ANYTHING she said wasn't true, don't you think someone would have posted something to that effect by now? Give it up, man. Your analogy is right on about beating a dead horse. IMHO you owe Abs a public apology, but not to worry; I won't be holding my breath, and I'm sure she won't be either.

LETS REVIEW: Originally Posted by Chicago K9

Interesting how you missed how Absolutely immediately lashed out at those that rasied a question as being "pimps" or having an ulterior motive.

But that's just how a WK always deals with anything right? Overlook the faults and make excuses for the hooker that doesn't give him the time of day for less than a few hundred bucks.....

Where do you leave your balls when you are posting?

I got no dog in this fight, but given a choice. I'd rather be getting blown by Absolutely.

For some, a lady storing ANY of their information poses a risk. IF LE were to bust a lady for solicitation wouldn't it be a rather common assumption on their part that the men stored in her contact list comprised a client list of sorts? Wouldn't it be reasonable to think they might set up a sting using the Provider's phone and those stored numbers? Send everyone a text to meet at some place for a discounted session and then have some fun with the ones that show up?


CoEd is NOT simply a place to flirt and have fun. It is a place where information relevant to the hobby can and should be presented and discussed by both sides without interference.
Originally Posted by Whispers

Coming from New York and bringing the common practices from there to here I've learned not to question on the boards the way things are done here even if they make no sense to me because those practices are dogma in the minds of providers here and cannot be questioned.

With that said I'll comment on this issue.

I keep no records for two reasons. One is because in New York there were high profile cases in the 1980s where female-run agencies were brought down and their client lists [full of VIPs] were not only in the hands of LE, but that city being what it is LE leaked names to the press. Since then no one in NY keeps records.

The second reason is that private investigators working for wifes or others have no problem hacking into any computer or phone.

As far as the risk that LE would use the numbers on a busted girl's phone for stings or other actions against clients, I've never heard of that. I think it would be extremely unlikely because it would involve a whole lot of work and LE isn't interested in arresting any particular client unless they already want that person for other reasons. There are a lot easier ways to get their quota of clients for a particular street or location if that's what they've been assigned to do that day for their daily druggeries.

p.s. other female-run agencies such as in Houston recently have had their records made issue of. For whatever reason females have a strong tendency to want to keep records, notes, momentos, etc. from their activities. I think for men operators it's more of an impersonal business, and there's less of the clients to remember or think about.

For anyone thincking that a provider saving your number poses a significant risk, I've got a few questions for you...

-How/why does this pose a significant risk to you?

(Wait! Before you answer factor these into your answer)

-Are you using a hobby phone?

--if No; then why aren't you?

--if Yes; then how does the practice of anyone storing your hobby phone's number place you at risk?


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Simply having your number in a providers phone means zilch as far as LE goes.

I have two provider friends who I've never played with and I know I am in their phones.
Why? Because they are my friends and no one can claim or even assume otherwise.
I can't control or fault them for what they do for a living and make no apologies for being on their contact list.

I think the main legitimate concerns about having your number stored in a providers phone are

a: If you are married and can't afford having someone calling or knocking on the door to simply ask a few questions. Stating you are just friends is easy as far as LE goes but you might have some explaining to do at home.

b: If that information ends up in the hands of a jealous BF, rogue provider gone insane or dangerous agency turned pimp such as Marco's.

Not all hobbyists play enough to keep a throw away phone on hand especially when they first start out. It would be wiser but not always practical as hobbying is far more spontaneous and sporadic for some than others.

I don't believe that anyone in this little sandbox of our can afford not to have a hobby phone, practical or not; especially if they're placing everything on the line (marriage, career, etc.) by participating.

That said, if you are participating in the hobby, and doing so properly, (namely with a hobby phone), how does having your hobby number stored in some provider's phone place significant risk on you?

If you're not using a hobby phone, then yeah, I totally understand, but if you're not using a hobby phone, you'd better damned-sure start using one STAT because you're playing a dangerous game of Russian Roulette each and every time you give out your phone number.

The name of the game here is keeping as much distance between your real world and this hobby world. The farther away the two, the better. A hobby phone with no ties to your person is a huge step towards that mean.

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