Evolution? Intelligent Design? God did it all in 7 days?

You seem to miss the point altogether... You apply the way you've been programmed to learn about the world, through a rigid and thick "logic", to an area that is exactly the opposite. Scientists will say "well, we don't know how organisms exist, but someday we will" -- even if they thought that eventuality would be finding a "creator".

Your loving god will smite you and send you to a fiery hell if you were that flexible about your point of view! Originally Posted by forumguy456987

Faith: Belief in an unproven or unprovable idea.
based on a frame of reference.

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You seem to miss the point altogether... You apply the way you've been programmed to learn about the world, through a rigid and thick "logic", to an area that is exactly the opposite. Scientists will say "well, we don't know how organisms exist, but someday we will" -- even if they thought that eventuality would be finding a "creator".

Your loving god will smite you and send you to a fiery hell if you were that flexible about your point of view! Originally Posted by forumguy456987

Faith: belief in something that is thought to be true,
which is unproven or unprovable, being based on a
Frame Of Reference.

Can be applied to unproven or unprovable scientific ideas.

Can be applied to religious ideas.

So simple a child should be able to understand it.


So nice I had to say it twice.

An awful lot of people in here insisting on the existence of a God.....who probably oughta hope there isn't one.

An awful lot of people in here insisting on the existence of a God.....who probably oughta hope there isn't one. Originally Posted by Doove

hahaha.... absolutely correct on that one

You can say the exact same thing about a lot of Muslim martyrs.

It doesn't make their bullshit any truer either. Originally Posted by ExNYer

I don't think the analogy works. I'm not an expert on Islam by any means, but from what I've read, I don't think there were any Muslim martyrs who were contemporaries with Muhammad, that were killed for simply telling people about Islam.

A lot of the initial converts to Islam joined up because of the practice of raiding caravans and the possibility of aquiring wealth and slaves. Muhammad led many of the raids himself. They converted people with a sword to the throat, rather than their testimony.

Do you really think it's reasonable to say that Christianity and Islam are equally virtuous religions. Do you really believe that?

Do you really think it's reasonable to say that Christianity and Islam are equally virtuous religions. Do you really believe that? Originally Posted by joe bloe

They're equally rational.

They're equally rational. Originally Posted by Doove

Do you think they're equally good, equally evil? I hear liberals make the argument that Christianity is comparable to Islam in terms of the suffering it causes. I just don't buy it.

Liberals always go back in history and selectively choose times when Christianity was connected to evil deeds and compare that with modern day Islam. I think a fare comparison of present day Christianity and present day Islam will show that Islam is essentially a force for evil in the world and Christianity is more often than not, a force for good.

I just don't buy it. Originally Posted by joe bloe

And your point is? Correct me if I am wrong but on November 5, 2012, you did not "buy" that Obama was going to win the election the following day.

How did that prediction work out for you?

Bloehard, go back to your corner. You've already lost by a TKO!

And your point is? Correct me if I am wrong but on November 5, 2012, you did not "buy" that Obama was going to win the election on the following day.

Go back to your corner, you've already lost the fight by a TKO! Originally Posted by bigtex

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

Originally Posted by joe bloe

snick

I think a fare comparison of present day Christianity and present day Islam will show that Islam is essentially a force for evil in the world and Christianity is more often than not, a force for good. Originally Posted by joe bloe

If there's truly a heaven, Muslims send people there sooner. How is that evil?

I believe God exists. I do not believe God created the heavens and earth. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Take a side, Assup! Quit trying to be on both sides! You HAVE to make a decision from the choices given! Fence-sitter Assup!

I don't think the analogy works. I'm not an expert on Islam by any means, but from what I've read, I don't think there were any Muslim martyrs who were contemporaries with Muhammad, that were killed for simply telling people about Islam.

A lot of the initial converts to Islam joined up because of the practice of raiding caravans and the possibility of acquiring wealth and slaves. Muhammad led many of the raids himself. They converted people with a sword to the throat, rather than their testimony.

Do you really think it's reasonable to say that Christianity and Islam are equally virtuous religions. Do you really believe that? Originally Posted by joe bloe

No, I don't. I much prefer Christianity.

However, Mohammed led many of his converts in battle against other religious forces. Those other religious groups often attacked first - definitely at the start of Mohammed's preaching. I'm sure many were put to death without fighting or after being captured. So those Muslim contemporaries of Mohammed undoubtedly died for their faith and qualify as martyrs in the strict sense of the word.

Mohammed and Jesus were not equally positioned. Jesus was a poor itinerant preacher who died as a criminal. Mohammed was a religious, military, political and social leader of his followers. He died at home in bed.

So straight comparisons are difficult. But we are talking about their followers, not the men themselves.

Faith: belief in something that is thought to be true,
which is unproven or unprovable, being based on a Frame Of Reference.

Can be applied to unproven or unprovable scientific ideas.

Can be applied to religious ideas. Originally Posted by bojulay

"Can be" applied to religious ideas? How about MUST BE? Where do you get your definition of "faith"? Care to post a link?

I have a much better definition. From Merriam-Webster:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty
b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions

2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion
b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust

3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>
----------------------------------------------------------------
See here: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith

Note that the only definition that even marginally applies to science is 2b(1): "firm belied in something for which there is NO proof". Notice that it says "NO" proof.

While science clearly does not have a complete explanation for evolution, it does have at least SOME proof. Therefore, it does not meet the definition of "faith".

No matter HOW much you try to make science equivalent to faith.