MAP SHOWS HIGH GUN OWNERSHIP = LOW CRIME

Pull you head out of the sand, Speedy, so you can stare the proof square in the face: "Los Zetas cartel has been known to hire US gangs such as the Texas Syndicate and MS-13 to carry out contract killings." And those homicides would be over and above the ones those U.S. gangs do for themselves, Speedy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Syndicate

And you continue to equivocate, Speedy! Cartels traffic the drugs and traffickers – and the users traffickers deal with – commit homicides with guns. Some estimate that 50% of gun related homicides are related to the illicit drug trade in some manner. As a factual example is Austin where “in 2005 there were 26 drug related homicides in Austin”: other U.S. cities, e.g., Chicago, New Orleans, Los Angeles, etc., have it much, much worse. Further, you've still not established that any gun related homicide would have been prevented had there been no guns. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Please go back and read my post from 11:06 this morning and at least make a try to UNDERSTAND what I said.

I'd guess that CHL holders, the so-called "law abiding citizens" have committed more murders and other gun related crimes than we think.

I'd guess that CHL holders, the so-called "law abiding citizens" have committed more murders and other gun related crimes than we think. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Yeah, they were just waiting to get their license before they went
on their homicidal killing sprees.


ha ha ha ha too f-ing funny.

And exactly how many of the more than 11,000 homicides in the U.S. in 2012 can you attribute to the Texas Syndicate or MS-13? Fact-based of course, not your opinion. And how many of them were homicides involving "innocent" people and not competitor drug dealers? I personally couldn't care less if opposing drug dealers disappear. A little callous on my part.

And once again you seem to have a problem reading and UNDERSTANDING other people's posts. NO ONE has said that people connected with drug cartels have not been responsible for some of the homicides in our country. However, most of us, myself included, believe the number to be an insignificant amount of the 11,000+ homicides. CHL holders are also responsible for some of the 11,000+ homicides. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Where is your "factual" citation on the CHL homicides, Speedy?

Here's a factoid for you, Speedy: The c***k-head burglar that shoots and kills a homeowner while committing a burglary to support his habit is an customer/agent of the Cartel; because, the c***k-head burglar uses his ill-gotten gains from the burglary and murder to buy from a drug dealer who is selling for a cartel even though the drug dealer might be eight or ten times removed from direct contact with any cartel thug, asshole.

Originally Posted by I B Hankering:
Here's a factoid for you, Speedy: The c***k-head burglar that shoots and kills a homeowner while committing a burglary to support his habit is an customer/agent of the Cartel; because, the c***k-head burglar uses his ill-gotten gains from the burglary and murder to buy from a drug dealer who is selling for a cartel even though the drug dealer might be eight or ten times removed from direct contact with any cartel thug, asshole.

And following that logic, the people who manufacture baking soda used in the making of that cr**k, and the water utility, electric utility and water rights owner who brought forth the raw materials to make the**ack are equally responsible. As is the Church, for claiming that God created the seas, the heavens and the earth, the bounty of which were used in development of that crac*. And that would then implicate every member of every church that espouses creation.

APPLYING YOUR LOGIC, THEN, YOU'RE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL OF THE C**CK RELATED CRIMES AND MURDERS, IBS.

Citizen's arrest!

Psst ... maybe you can plead out to a lesser charge of public dipshittery!

Where is your "factual" citation on the CHL homicides, Speedy?

Here's a factoid for you, Speedy: The c***k-head burglar that shoots and kills a homeowner while committing a burglary to support his habit is an customer/agent of the Cartel; because, the c***k-head burglar uses his ill-gotten gains from the burglary and murder to buy from a drug dealer who is selling for a cartel even though the drug dealer might be eight or ten times removed from direct contact with any cartel thug, asshole. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Concealed Handgun Permit Holders Have Killed at Least 139 Since May 2007, Including 9 Law Enforcement Officers

https://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2010/02/19

That factoid is pure BS. No matter how you interpret it. Please do a little better. Just shows how totally ignorant you are. If you can't find facts to back up your lame opinions, simply make them up. Is that standard operating procedure for Conservatards?

And following that logic, the people who manufacture baking soda used in the making of that cr**k, and the water utility, electric utility and water rights owner who brought forth the raw materials to make the**ack are equally responsible. As is the Church, for claiming that God created the seas, the heavens and the earth, the bounty of which were used in development of that crac*. And that would then implicate every member of every church that espouses creation.

APPLYING YOUR LOGIC, THEN, YOU'RE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL OF THE C**CK RELATED CRIMES AND MURDERS, IBS.

Citizen's arrest!

Psst ... maybe you can plead out to a lesser charge of public dipshittery! Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Still having trouble collecting quarters from your proverbial Salina bus station patrons, Assup the jackass, so you still can't call: 1-800-EAT-SHIT??? Poor, poor, Assup the jackass.

Cite a documented and verifiable instance where a burglary or homicide was perpetrated primarily to acquire or pay for baking soda, you plastic-playmate-poking-putz. Once again you demonstrate your ignorance, Assup the jackass, that’s why you were elected:

DIPSHIT OF THE YEAR 2013

ASSUP!!!

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Hold on there Bubba, I was simply following YOUR line of logic from YOUR "factoid," which is neither fact nor truth.

At least you've managed to throw in a few insults to shroud your gross inability to gain an edge in this discussion.

You're about to enter a deeply forbidden topic and I'm not going there with you, Bubba.

I'm guessing you'll be unable to get that monkey off your back.

But keep fighting the good fight!

Concealed Handgun Permit Holders Have Killed at Least 139 Since May 2007, Including 9 Law Enforcement Officers

https://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2010/02/19

That factoid is pure BS. No matter how you interpret it. Please do a little better. Just shows how totally ignorant you are. If you can't find facts to back up your lame opinions, simply make them up. Is that standard operating procedure for Conservatards? Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Just because your libetard-ass is completely unable to factually dispute that users support drug cartels doesn't make a "fact" a “lame-ass opinion”, Speedy. Actually, in this instance it's the reverse that is true, Speedy. It’s an undeniable fact that drug-users fund cartels, and cartels enable the criminal acts of users; therefore, it's your “lame-ass opinion” that is ignorant and not credible.

BTW, Speedy it’s 125 homicides – 14 of your 139 ‘homicides’ were suicides. 125 homicides over a three year period equates to approximately 42 such homicides per year nationwide; whereas, if you recall, the single city of Austin ‘enjoyed’ 26 drug related homicides in a one year period.

Further, if you factor your 42 homicides into the overall homicide rate, 11,000, you are citing. That results in a .004% figure.

FYI:

“In 2012, eight law enforcement officers were killed in the course of US domestic drug law enforcement operations. . . .

“[Plus] Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer Terrell Horne III was killed when a Mexican marijuana smuggling boat rammed his off the Southern California coast. . . .

“In the federal prison population, drug offenders made up a whopping 51% of all prisoners, with public order offenders (mainly weapons and immigration violations) accounting for an additional 35%. Only about 10% of federal prisoners were doing time for violent offenses. Overall, somewhere between 350,000 and 400,000 people were doing prison time for drug offenses last year. [10% equates to 3,500 to 4,000 violent drug offenders that were ‘caught’ and punished].
http://stopthedrugwar.org/taxonomy/term/231


Drug War-Related Homicides In The US Average At Least 1,100 a Year
Posted by Bill Conroy - March 10, 2012 at 8:01 pm
However, Full Extent of Carnage Unknowable Because US Government Doesn’t Track Violent Crime Linked To The War On Drugs

Narco News examined news reports and also made calls to local police departments to obtain the full-year 2011 murder statistics for the major cities along the Mexican border-area stretch of Interstates 10 and 8 (extending east to west from New Orleans to San Diego and including Houston, San Antonio, El Paso, Phoenix and Tucson.). And in every major city except Houston along that route, which is a major drug-trafficking corridor, murder rates were up last year — counter to the national trend. . . .

“And then there is another phenomena, the "disappeared," a term that shouldn’t be reserved solely for the drug war in Mexico. A former Mexican cartel member now in hiding in the United States, who spoke with Narco News recently, tells the following story:

One day they brought this guy from Chicago all way to Juarez…. I don’t know how they passed him [across the border]. But they brought him alive.… He didn’t pay and he told guys form Juarez … if you want me, come and get me, and he started laughing, and they went and got him [in Chicago].
They have their people over there [in the US] and say, "This is the guy’s address where he is living. Find the guy." It was like two or three days [later and the kidnappers] call back to Juarez and say they got the guy and took him all way to Juarez and killed him there.”

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/not...east-1100-year

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/DRRC.PDF

Hold on there Bubba, I was simply following YOUR line of logic from YOUR "factoid," which is neither fact nor hemorrhoid, though when you "quote" yourself, then it IS a pain in the ass. And that's a FACT JACK!

But I respect your right to be ADD.

Keep fighting the dumb fight! We ALL enjoy watching you implode! Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Notice how your dumb-ass didn’t cite a documented and verifiable instance where a burglary or homicide was perpetrated primarily to acquire or pay for baking soda, you plastic-playmate-poking-putz. You’re still exhibiting your ignorance, Assup the jackass, that’s why you were elected:

DIPSHIT OF THE YEAR 2013

ASSUP!!!

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Just because your libetard-ass is completely unable to factually dispute that users support drug cartels doesn't make a "fact" a “lame-ass opinion”, Speedy. Actually, in this instance it's the reverse that is true, Speedy. It’s an undeniable fact that drug-users fund cartels, and cartels enable the criminal acts of users; therefore, it's your “lame-ass opinion” that is ignorant and not credible.

BTW, Speedy it’s 125 homicides – 14 of your 139 ‘homicides’ were suicides. 125 homicides over a three year period equates to approximately 42 such homicides per year nationwide; whereas, if you recall, the single city of Austin ‘enjoyed’ 26 drug related homicides in a one year period.

Further, if you factor your 42 homicides into the overall homicide rate, 11,000, you are citing. That results in a .004% figure.

FYI:

“In 2012, eight law enforcement officers were killed in the course of US domestic drug law enforcement operations. . . .

“[Plus] Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer Terrell Horne III was killed when a Mexican marijuana smuggling boat rammed his off the Southern California coast. . . .

“In the federal prison population, drug offenders made up a whopping 51% of all prisoners, with public order offenders (mainly weapons and immigration violations) accounting for an additional 35%. Only about 10% of federal prisoners were doing time for violent offenses. Overall, somewhere between 350,000 and 400,000 people were doing prison time for drug offenses last year. [10% equates to 3,500 to 4,000 violent drug offenders that were ‘caught’ and punished].
http://stopthedrugwar.org/taxonomy/term/231


Drug War-Related Homicides In The US Average At Least 1,100 a Year
Posted by Bill Conroy - March 10, 2012 at 8:01 pm
However, Full Extent of Carnage Unknowable Because US Government Doesn’t Track Violent Crime Linked To The War On Drugs

Narco News examined news reports and also made calls to local police departments to obtain the full-year 2011 murder statistics for the major cities along the Mexican border-area stretch of Interstates 10 and 8 (extending east to west from New Orleans to San Diego and including Houston, San Antonio, El Paso, Phoenix and Tucson.). And in every major city except Houston along that route, which is a major drug-trafficking corridor, murder rates were up last year — counter to the national trend. . . .

“And then there is another phenomena, the "disappeared," a term that shouldn’t be reserved solely for the drug war in Mexico. A former Mexican cartel member now in hiding in the United States, who spoke with Narco News recently, tells the following story:

One day they brought this guy from Chicago all way to Juarez…. I don’t know how they passed him [across the border]. But they brought him alive.… He didn’t pay and he told guys form Juarez … if you want me, come and get me, and he started laughing, and they went and got him [in Chicago].
They have their people over there [in the US] and say, "This is the guy’s address where he is living. Find the guy." It was like two or three days [later and the kidnappers] call back to Juarez and say they got the guy and took him all way to Juarez and killed him there.”

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/not...east-1100-year

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/DRRC.PDF





Notice how your dumb-ass didn’t cite a documented and verifiable instance where a burglary or homicide was perpetrated primarily to acquire or pay for baking soda, you plastic-playmate-poking-putz. You’re still exhibiting your ignorance, Assup the jackass, that’s why you were elected: Originally Posted by I B Hankering

I don't think I've ever come across a person with less ability to understand what point is being made. I NEVER said that the crimes, homicides or not, done by CHL holders was significant. It is not. The overwhelming majority of CHL holders are law-abiding citizens. However, a handful are not. Some commit murder. Some gang members commit murder. Again an insignificant number. If you want to correlate drug users who commit homicides to the drug cartel and say that therefore the drug cartel actually committed homicide -- you just go ahead and continue to show the people on this board how ignorant you are.

I just came up with a great idea!! It will probably win you "Humanitarian of the Year". Go find some drug addicts who are going on trial for homicide or some other violent crime. Have them change their pleas to "The (insert name) drug cartel made me do it. They are guilty, not me." I'm sure the judge and jury will be sympathetic and drop the charges.

I didn't say people killed for baking soda, stupid. I said that according to your dipshit logic, everybody who contributes to the manufacture of that drug would be responsible for the actions of the person who kills to support his/her habit. That would include the makers of water, trees and earth. Do you understand?

Following YOUR subsequent line of ridiculous debate: I challenge you to produce a documented and verifiable piece of evidence that disproves your parents were brother and sister.

Im still trying to find a point in what you're arguing, with anybody in this thread. Is it that drug wars cause more deaths than guns, so we should get rid of drug wars? Is it that criminals cause murders, so we need to get rid of murders? Or criminals?That juvenile gangs were behind the gun deaths between the 70s and 90s, so we need to get rid of the 70s through the 90s? Or that the war on drugs is deadlier than the war on Iraq or Afghanistan, so we need to get rid of war?

Yeah, your posts in this thread read kinda like that.

You don't know what you're arguing, nor do you present a premise or conclusion.

How fucking stupid are you?

I don't think I've ever come across a person with less ability to understand what point is being made. I NEVER said that the crimes, homicides or not, done by CHL holders was significant. It is not. The overwhelming majority of CHL holders are law-abiding citizens. However, a handful are not. Some commit murder. Some gang members commit murder. Again an insignificant number. If you want to correlate drug users who commit homicides to the drug cartel and say that therefore the drug cartel actually committed homicide -- you just go ahead and continue to show the people on this board how ignorant you are. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Those are not "insignificant numbers", Speedy. You continue to dismiss and deny how the pervasive use of illicit drugs, the illicit drug trade and the associated gangs and gang related activity in the U.S. are significant factors in the gun related homicide rate in the U.S. That's why you're the one showing you're ignorance, Speedy.

I didn't say people killed for baking soda, stupid. I said that according to your dipshit logic, everybody who contributes to the manufacture of that substance would be responsible for the actions of the person who kills to support his/her habit. That would include the makers of water, trees and earth. Do you understand?

How fucking stupid are you?

Following along your subsequent line of ridiculous debate: I challenge you to produce a documented and verifiable piece of evidence that disproves your parents were brother and sister. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

That was your analogy, Assup the jackass, and now you cannot support your lame-ass claim with a citable instance. So go climb back on your plastic playmate, Assup the jackass, and squeak, squeak, squeak, because that's why you were elected:

DIPSHIT OF THE YEAR 2013

ASSUP!!!

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Nice retort. I gotta admit, I didn't see that coming!

BTW -- where's that proof about your origin?

Nice retort. I gotta admit, I didn't see that coming!

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Seriously, Assup the jackass, the only thing you’re worried about “melting down” is your dilapidated plastic playmate when you fart near an open flame. That's why you were elected:

DIPSHIT OF THE YEAR 2013

ASSUP!!!

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

From I B AN IDIOT

"Those are not "insignificant numbers", Speedy. You continue to dismiss and deny how the pervasive use of illicit drugs, the illicit drug trade and the associated gangs and gang related activity in the U.S. are significant factors in the gun related homicide rate in the U.S. That's why you're the one showing you're ignorance, Speedy. "

You just changed the playing field again. As I pointed out before, this is the statement to which people objected:

"You’re obviously ignoring and not considering Central and South American drug cartels and the connections they have with street gangs in the U.S.! "

Now you've broadened it to ALL illicit drug trade. Organized crime dealing drugs in the U.S. goes far beyond the Central and South American drug cartels and street gangs. I really don't understand what point you are trying to make. Homicides are homicides. Someone killed someone else. Usually using a gun. So what if it was or was not a druggie pulling the trigger? The article you cited says that less than 1,200 people a year were homicide victims due to the drug war. Assuming that is true, that still leaves more than 16,000 non-drug related homicides, which still makes us far-and-away #1 in the industrialized world for gun related homicides per capita.