Oh Dear! Did the Trump Tax Cuts Really "Pay For Themselves"?

So is death....yet we spend Trillions trying to put it off.


Look...if we capped dynastic wealth, it would solve a lot of inequality Originally Posted by WTF

We already do. We tax people all their lives. Then if they managed to squirrel away enough to exceed the lifetime gift and estate tax exemption, tax them when they die. Forty percent of what they're worth, in excess of the exemption. People jump through hoops to avoid the tax, often in ways that create economic inefficiencies. The death tax raises very little money. It's hard to calculate. Families have to sell businesses to pay the tax. It should be abolished.

We already do. We tax people all their lives. Then if they managed to squirrel away enough to exceed the lifetime gift and estate tax exemption, tax them when they die. Forty percent of what they're worth, in excess of the exemption. People jump through hoops to avoid the tax, often in ways that create economic inefficiencies. The death tax raises very little money. It's hard to calculate. Families have to sell businesses to pay the tax. It should be abolished. Originally Posted by Tiny

agree completely. it destroys decades of hard work to be successful.

We already do. We tax people all their lives. Then if they managed to squirrel away enough to exceed the lifetime gift and estate tax exemption, tax them when they die. Forty percent of what they're worth, in excess of the exemption. People jump through hoops to avoid the tax, often in ways that create economic inefficiencies. The death tax raises very little money. It's hard to calculate. Families have to sell businesses to pay the tax. It should be abolished. Originally Posted by Tiny

Your argument would hold water if our debt was INCREASINGLY.

That would mean that the current generation about to die paid for what they wanted instead of putting it on credit and continually giving themselves tax cuts.

Which is just another transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich.

Take your 2017 tax cut and combine it with Trumps tariffs and guess who is getting screwed.

I'm busy but I'll do a little research to counter that " I had to sell the farm" nonsense.

Here is a brief history on the estate tax

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...x-to-death-tax

And here are the actual numbers that counter the scare tactics

https://money.cnn.com/2017/10/10/new...tax/index.html


Trump's immigration policy could hurt U.S. farmers
No, the estate tax isn't killing family farms
By Jeanne Sahadi October 10, 2017: 12:33 PM ET
Republicans calling for the repeal of the federal estate tax often claim it makes it hard for American farmers and ranchers to pass on the family business to the next generation.

But most U.S. family farms are unaffected by the federal estate tax.

For starters, about 90% of farms are small -- meaning they bring in $350,000 or less in revenue a year, according to the USDA. And the median wealth for farm operator households was $827,300 in 2015.

Here is a brief history on the estate tax

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...x-to-death-tax

And here are the actual numbers that counter the scare tactics

https://money.cnn.com/2017/10/10/new...tax/index.html


Trump's immigration policy could hurt U.S. farmers
No, the estate tax isn't killing family farms
By Jeanne Sahadi October 10, 2017: 12:33 PM ET
Republicans calling for the repeal of the federal estate tax often claim it makes it hard for American farmers and ranchers to pass on the family business to the next generation.

But most U.S. family farms are unaffected by the federal estate tax.

For starters, about 90% of farms are small -- meaning they bring in $350,000 or less in revenue a year, according to the USDA. And the median wealth for farm operator households was $827,300 in 2015. Originally Posted by WTF

Do you think these numbers hold up now? Not challenging, just trying to follow. Not a numbers guy, per se. Established.

I would ask: Has agribusiness taken a bigger share of farming? I understand farming.

Your argument would hold water if our debt was INCREASINGLY. Originally Posted by WTF

??? More gibberish.

Your "arguments" might be worthy of a response if they weren't INCREASINGLY incoherent!

I'll do a little research to counter that "I had to sell the farm" nonsense. Originally Posted by WTF

Great! Thanks for shouting out how open-minded you are!

You just admitted you do research not in search of facts or truth, but only to find articles that echo your own prior conclusions. Of course, everyone already knows this about you. Thanks for being so openly brazen about it. You just amply proved what I said about you in my post #46 of this thread:

The problem with partisan hacks like WTF is they have zero credibility. They start with a conclusion, then work backwards in search of arguments to support it, instead of examining the economic data with an open mind to see what is objectively suggested by empirical evidence. Originally Posted by lustylad

Maybe the corporate tax cuts didn't help corrupt trumpy so much???? He is still out there begging for money from his cult

Dah... The fucking morons

Do you think these numbers hold up now? Not challenging, just trying to follow. Not a numbers guy, per se. Established.

I would ask: Has agribusiness taken a bigger share of farming? I understand farming.

Originally Posted by eccieuser9500

Even more so now...unless Tiny thinks a Mom and Pop farm is valued over 24 million!

https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/6016...exemption-2022

Generally, when you die, your estate is not subject to the federal estate tax if the value of your estate is less than the exemption amount. For people who pass away in 2022, the exemption amount will be $12.06 million (it's $11.7 million for 2021). For a married couple, that comes to a combined exemption of $24.12 million

??? More gibberish.

Your "arguments" might be worthy of a response if they weren't INCREASINGLY incoherent!




Great! Thanks for shouting out how open-minded you are!

You just admitted you do research not in search of facts or truth, but only to find articles that echo your own prior conclusions. Of course, everyone already knows this about you. Thanks for being so openly brazen about it. You just amply proved what I said about you in my post #46 of this thread: Originally Posted by lustylad

Let me explain to the light in the loafers school monitor...

The debt is increasing, so yes I believe that those that have benefited the most should pay more upon their death.

Were the Federal debt decreasing or close to zero...a great case could be made to not have it from a financial standpoint. From a moral standpoint I'm not sure that huge dynastic wealth is a good thing.

I do research to back up my belief...just like you .

I've asked you to give me to compare say the EU Gini numbers vs the United States. Originally Posted by WTF

As to the Gini coefficient, who cares. Originally Posted by Tiny

I say fuck the Gini coefficient. Originally Posted by Tiny

+1

Be careful, Tiny. By talking about the Gini coefficient with an idiot like WTF, you give the impression that he actually understands what it is and how it’s calculated, let alone how to interpret it.

Hahaha... you pretentious little pseudo-economist twat!

Can you even explain what the Gini is and how it's calculated? Also please tell us about its flaws and inadequacies as a measure of inequality.

You like to proclaim all manner of shit you know nothing about! Originally Posted by lustylad

From a moral standpoint I'm not sure that huge dynastic wealth is a good thing. Originally Posted by WTF

Seriously? You want to talk about morality?

Were you never taught the Ten Commandments? Here's a quick refresher:

Commandment No. 7: Thou shalt not steal.

Commandment No. 10: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods.

The federal government is egregiously immoral and in violation of both of the above Commandments when it steals the fruits of our labor and encourages us to envy and covet the goods of our fellow citizens.

Even if the thieves who currently run the federal govt were to brazenly STEAL all of the net worth of Elon Musk, the world's richest man according to Forbes magazine, it would barely fund the greedy US federal behemoth for 2 weeks!

Where did I write about farms WTF? You’re advocating theft. The Biden administration last year proposed dropping the lifetime gift and estate exemption to $3.5 million and at the same time also proposed imposing a capital gains tax on dead people. That is, Biden wants to steal more and steal from a lot more people than the bastards in Washington have in the past.

Edit: I see you beat me to the punch LustyLad. That goes to show fair minded people think alike.

The 2017 Tax Reform Delivered as Promised
Our predictions about the law’s effects on business investment, wages and tax revenue were correct.

By Tyler Goodspeed and Kevin Hassett
May 8, 2022 5:24 pm ET

As Karl Popper demonstrated, evaluating a scientific proposition requires falsifiability—theories or hypotheses can’t be proved or disproved if they can’t be subjected to empirical tests. When the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was passed, we were criticized for being overly optimistic about the effects we predicted it would have. Now the evidence is in. Our critics were wrong, and the economic data have met or even exceeded our predictions.

In 2017, we predicted that reducing the federal corporate tax rate to 21% from 35% and introducing full expensing of new-equipment investment would boost productivity-enhancing business investment by 9%. Though growth in business investment had been slowing in the years leading up to 2017, after tax reform it surged. By the end of 2019 it was 9.4% above its pre-2017 trend, exactly in line with the prediction of our models. Looking solely at corporate businesses—those most directly affected by business-tax reform in 2017—real investment was up by as much as 14.2% over the pre-2017 trend, slightly more than we expected. Among S&P 500 companies, total capital expenditures in the two years after tax reform were 20% higher than in the two years prior, when capital expenditures actually declined.

Citing an extensive empirical literature, we also predicted that by enhancing worker bargaining power and increasing new investment in domestic plant and equipment, the average household would see real income gains of $4,000 over three to five years. In 2018 and 2019 real median household income in the U.S. rose by $5,000—a bigger increase in only two years than in the entire eight years of the preceding recovery combined. In 2019 alone, real median household income rose by $4,400, more than in the eight years from 2010 through 2017 combined.

Those extra wages contributed extra tax revenue as well. We predicted that despite a short-term drop in corporate income-tax revenue as companies expensed new-equipment investment, the combination of increased economic growth and reduced incentives to shift corporate profits overseas would result in a long-run net positive revenue effect. Before the reform, U.S. firms moved their profits overseas to avoid the highest tax of any advanced economy. After the reform, we predicted that more profits would be booked at home. For each dollar booked at home there would be a gain for the U.S. Treasury, since 21% of a positive number is much larger than 35% of zero.

Commentators have recently noticed that in the 2021 fiscal year, not only did federal corporate tax revenues come in at a record high, but corporate tax revenue as a share of the U.S. economy rose to its highest level since 2015. Actual corporate tax revenue in 2021 was $46 billion higher than the Congressional Budget Office’s post-reform forecast. Even though the U.S. economy was only slightly larger in 2021 than the CBO had projected, corporate tax revenue as a share of gross domestic product was 21% higher (1.7% versus 1.4%).

Some have attributed this good news to transitory effects related to the pandemic rather than 2017 tax reform. Yet in President Biden’s latest budget, the administration’s own baseline forecast for corporate tax revenue (i.e., before the revenue effects of its budget proposals) is now above the CBO’s pre-2017 forecast for every year from 2023 through 2027. This is true for both the level of corporate tax receipts and as a share of GDP. This optimistic forecast is consistent with our views about the long-run nature of the effects of tax reform and inconsistent with critics’ claim it has no effects.

Why are corporate tax receipts coming in not only at much higher levels, but also as a bigger share of the U.S. economy? The reason is exactly as we foreshadowed in the 2018 and 2019 Economic Reports of the President. By neutralizing the favorable tax treatment of selling intellectual-property services overseas via a foreign subsidiary, and by taxing past corporate earnings previously sheltered in those foreign subsidiaries, the 2017 tax law effectively created an incentive for multinational enterprises to move their profits home.

As a result, not only did domestic pretax earnings grow by a greater percentage than total pretax earnings between 2019 and 2021, they also grew by more for companies with greater foreign-derived income from intellectual property, meaning these firms were either repatriating intellectual property to the U.S. or locating less new intellectual property outside the U.S.

This is reflected in aggregate international transactions data from the Bureau of Economic Analysis, which shows that firms were repatriating only 36% of prior-year foreign earnings, and reinvesting 70% abroad, in the years leading up to 2017. Since 2019 they have on average repatriated 57%, and reinvested only 47% abroad. Overall since 2017, firms have repatriated $1.8 trillion in past overseas earnings.

In addition, the average annual dollar value of acquisitions by U.S. companies of foreign assets in 2018 and 2019 was 50% higher than in the two preceding years, while acquisitions of U.S. assets by foreign companies declined by 25%. Multinationals find the idea of domiciling in the U.S. and pursuing outbound acquisitions increasingly appealing. U.S. companies, on the other hand, are increasingly uninterested in being acquired by foreign multinationals and domiciling in lower-tax jurisdictions.

One of the exciting aspects of academic discovery is the opportunity to test theories and hypotheses against real-world data. In 2017, we put our hypotheses about the effects of corporate tax reform in the public record and have passed the test. The White House and Democrats in Congress should think twice about undoing the corporate tax reform and partisan economic pundits should point their criticisms at something else.

Mr. Goodspeed is a fellow at the Hoover Institution and served as acting chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, 2020-21. Mr. Hassett is a distinguished visiting fellow at Hoover and was chairman of the council, 2017-19.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-201...st-11652036657

Play them at the same time.

Adjust the volume as you wish.

Play them at the same time.
Adjust the volume as you wish. Originally Posted by eccieuser9500

Haha!