what about these requiring 2 hr sessions?

I am guessing that the provider herself only got $150-$180 of that money.. That is the sad part. Originally Posted by Naomi4u

Why? If that's the business plan she chose why is that sad? Just like some having a minimum 2+ hour appointments she has chose to work w/ an agency for a set fee.

Why? If that's the business plan she chose why is that sad? Just like some having a minimum 2+ hour appointments she has chose to work w/ an agency for a set fee. Originally Posted by Budman

.. and I agree.

Edit: It is still sad that she can't .. Find a photographer to take her pictures, sign up for google voice/get a prepaid phone, post her own ads and screen her own calls and most of all...*drumroll* Keep ALL of her hard earned money!:-)

I wrote an even longer post but deleted it ... didn't want to drag this out any longer. :-)

.. and I agree.

Edit: It is still sad that she can't .. Find a photographer to take her pictures, sign up for google voice/get a prepaid phone, post her own ads and screen her own calls and most of all...*drumroll* Keep ALL of her hard earned money!:-)

I wrote an even longer post but deleted it ... didn't want to drag this out any longer. :-) Originally Posted by Naomi4u

So your 3 hour minimum is good business but her not being independent is sad. Who are you to say she can't do all those things you listed? Maybe she made the decision that she doesn't want to mess with all that shit. You're being very hypocritical.

So your 3 hour minimum is good business but her not being independent is sad. Who are you to say she can't do all those things you listed? Maybe she made the decision that she doesn't want to mess with all that shit. You're being very hypocritical. Originally Posted by Budman

Ok Maybe "sad" was wrong choice of word.

You are taking things way too seriously. How am I being hypocritical? Because I said she should keep all of her money? I'm just saying what I would do. I have worked for an agency.. you haven't. I know what it's like to deposit almost 10k a week into the agency account.. you don't. Why give someone else all that money? That is what I meant.. However you're right maybe that's exactly what she wants. Everyone's lifestyle is different and of course I understand that. I don't care how a lady chooses to run her business. That is her business. However, If a girlfriend of mine wanted to work with an agency this is exactly what I'd tell her.

Ok Maybe "sad" was wrong choice of word.

You are taking things way too seriously. How am I being hypocritical? Because I said she should keep all of her money? I'm just saying what I would do. I have worked for an agency.. you haven't. I know what it's like to deposit almost 10k a week into the agency account.. you don't. Why give someone else all that money? That is what I meant.. However you're right maybe that's exactly what she wants. Everyone's lifestyle is different and of course I understand that. I don't care how a lady chooses to run her business. That is her business. However, If a girlfriend of mine wanted to work with an agency this is exactly what I'd tell her. Originally Posted by Naomi4u

This is, albeit indirectly stated, the problem with employeeism generally. I am not going to hire someone to perform a task unless I make at least as much from their efforts as I pay them; and ideally many times what I pay them. Employeeism is, in essence, a mindset in which one dedicates his/her life to deriving a pittance in exchange for making someone else rich.

The core issue with employeeism is that the typical employee either can't or won't imagine a scenario in which he owns the means of production; or has followed a narrow path of skills such that the means of production can only be provided by a relatively wealthy entity and is beyond practical reach.

As an escort, you own your own means of production -- yourself and all that entails you. As such, it isn't cost-prohibitive to be the owner rather than the employee.

But it takes a lot to be the owner. To be the person who shoulders responsibility, makes all the critical decisions, etc. Some people make very good owners of their own enterprise. Others find that the responsibility chaffes, or their decisions are not so good.

For these latter folks, to them it is more beneficial to be an employee and only be entitled to 1/2, 1/3rd or even less of the value of their production because left to their own devices, they might make even less.

To put it in escorting terms, if a lady is bad at marketing but an agency is good at marketing; collecting $100 from each of 7 appointments will come more closely to paying the rent than collecting $300 from 1 appointment. So she is better off as an employee in terms of paying her rent.

Sometimes, when a person is very capable, they look at others and say "Well, if I can do X, then so can anyone else."

Unfortunately, that isn't always true. Every person has different degrees of intrinsic capacity in a variety of realms, a different arena of interests, and different personality traits in terms of risk tolerance and other traits important to being the owner.

In addition, some people who certainly have the intrinsic capacities to be an owner have those capacities submerged by antithetical beliefs and values. They question themselves, doubt their abilities, and feel more secure with someone else in charge.

It is this latter case in which I can understand your statement. We all project ourselves to an extent in our attempt to understand others. You, being very capable, know that if you were in that other lady's shoes; you'd stop being an employee and become an owner forthwith.

Where such a thing is sad is when the only real barrier to someone doing that is not in their abilities, but in lack of self confidence or the like.

But on the other hand, there do exist escorts who can't properly screen for their own safety, can't market worth a darn, etc. but can perform like champs. Being an owner-operator as a successful independent escort, as you know, requires MANY skills in many realms. And some escorts may have plenty of skills for the core competency, but lack the skills (and lack the desire to acquire them) for the other skills necessary as an owner to stay safe and keep business flowing.

For them, to be employees is not sad -- it is a boon; because as employees with the support of an employer they are more secure in their capacity to make the rent.

Personally, I don't deal with agencies and never have. For some reason the whole idea gives me the creeps. So I only deal with owners.

But my own prejudices in that regard notwithstanding, I can understand why for some proportion of escorts, working for an agency wouldn't be sad; whereas for others it would.

"Owners".. I love that!

Laurentius, I loved reading that. Well said.

To put it in escorting terms, if a lady is bad at marketing but an agency is good at marketing; collecting $100 from each of 7 appointments will come more closely to paying the rent than collecting $300 from 1 appointment. So she is better off as an employee in terms of paying her rent.

Sometimes, when a person is very capable, they look at others and say "Well, if I can do X, then so can anyone else." Originally Posted by Laurentius

Laurentius, You know what I have a problem with? It's the agencies that take half and do nothing for the girl. Like I said, I worked for an agency my first 6 months of escorting, They took half of everything I made BUT they didn't provide me with a professional photographer (I hired a photog), They did not provide an incall location (I had to do that), They did not drive me to my appointments (I did that myself) and the VIP clients they claimed to have weren't always VIP ... lol!

If I'm going to give half of my money to someone they'll have to screen well, provide an incall, have a professional photographer standing by for when I want new pictures, drive me to my appointment or have a driver.. Oh and keep me safe. If they can't do any of those things then no I'm not giving them my half of my money when I can do those things myself and make more.

When I say make more this is what I mean, When most agencies advertise they put all their girls on one ad. When they do that .. the girls become each others competition and it is not fair. I love the way London agencies operate.. much more organized and every girl has their chance to shine.

Why give someone else all that money? Originally Posted by Naomi4u

I am not a real big fan of agencies myself, mostly because most of the gals seem more like sexbots than GFE, but sometimes we can't afford to be picky, especially when in a strange city or needing an appointment without much advance notice, in which case agencies can serve a purpose.

As to the their cut. . .well I would imagine the better agencies out there actually provide a service. I am not talk about pimp wannabe boyfriends and spouses that turn out their women for a quick buck. I am talking about a management team run like a business. It may not be the best value for the dollar, but if you are new to the hobby and don't have a clue how to market yourself, screen, and run all the hundreds of other details that the more consummate independents excel at, then yes their profit will be cut because they need to sub contract those skills until they pick them up and get better at them. Heck, my experience has been that some of these new young ladies need to learn basic customer service. So many of them, especially in a bad economy, enter into this profession and think because they are cute all they have to do is strip off their clothes and the guy will nut quickly and hand them over a ridiculous amount of money. Many of them have no idea how to act sexy, let alone BE sensual. Sometimes an agency is like spring training for providers.

Why begrudge them the cut, if they are actually providing services and training to the new hobby neophyte?

This is no less a valid business model than many others--each works a purpose.

Honey If they are showing the girl the ropes then yes they deserve half of whatever she makes.
If they are screening and actually care about her well being then yes they deserve half of what she makes.
I worked for the best (considered by most) agency in Charlotte NC and they did NOT give a damn. As long as they had the "VIP" image and the girl's money... they didn't care.
I am all for an agency that keeps the girl safe, keeps her looking good, acts as a shoulder to cry on, drives her to her appointment, provides her with a 4 star or better incall to work in, provides her with professional pictures, gets her good clients and decent business..I am all for that.
Now I worked for a massage parlor briefly and they did all these things for me and I went to work with a smile on my face everyday and I made bank each and every single day. If they were still in the carolinas I wouldn't be indie.. I'd go back to giving my money because they (the woman and her daughter) treated me like family. 9/10 agencies put the men that call them before the ladies that work for them and it's not fair. I am friends with an agency owner here and the way he talks about his girls?... I feel for them. That is why I am all for the independent woman.

And yes I do understand that sometimes calling an agency is much more convienient.

Laurentius, You know what I have a problem with? It's the agencies that take half and do nothing for the girl. Like I said, I worked for an agency my first 6 months of escorting, They took half of everything I made BUT they didn't provide me with a professional photographer (I hired a photog), They did not provide an incall location (I had to do that), They did not drive me to my appointments (I did that myself) and the VIP clients they claimed to have weren't always VIP ... lol!

If I'm going to give half of my money to someone they'll have to screen well, provide an incall, have a professional photographer standing by for when I want new pictures, drive me to my appointment or have a driver.. Oh and keep me safe. If they can't do any of those things then no I'm not giving them my half of my money when I can do those things myself and make more.

When I say make more this is what I mean, When most agencies advertise they put all their girls on one ad. When they do that .. the girls become each others competition and it is not fair. I love the way London agencies operate.. much more organized and every girl has their chance to shine. Originally Posted by Naomi4u

Hi Naomi!

I can completely understand and agree with what you are saying.

It is my personal belief that *some* (notice I said some, not all) agencies essentially take advantage of women who don't know any better. Some of the stories I've heard of near-nonexistent screening, etc. are pretty horrifying. IMHO, such agencies are little better than stereotypical pimps except they are worse in that they won't physically kick a bad client's ass. So you have the loss of money of a pimp and none of the benefit.

I agree that's a sad thing. Of course, entire industries in this country are founded on the exploitation of (hopefully very temporary) ignorance. SO the minute an exploitable person becomes noticed; somebody is there to pounce.

I think the best that a well-intended person can do is either not support such situations (the hobbyist side) or counsel those who are being exploited in order to help induce better decisions (the provider side).

I don't see the hobby as an adversarial situation between hobbyists and providers; but rather as a symbiosis in which each requires the other. As such, anything done that improves the lot of anyone within that system improves the lot of all.

Helping a lady either get better service (screening, driving, etc) for what is deducted or to keep more of her production (become an owner if she is so-inclined) is a win for everyone, IMHO.

On the flip side, I have a lady friend who once tried to start an agency. She was essentially taking in clueless women, investing gobs of money in them she wouldn't have even invested in herself, and then having them steal from her.

From their perspective, they were entitled to do that. But they never grasped how much she invested up front in them in pro photos, individual eros ads, wardrobe and all that.

She tried to run a legitimate agency where the employees were really treated well, and got kicked in the teeth. The only justice was when she said "Fine, you are on your own" -- they couldn't make it as indies and wound up working for an agency that made them appreciate what they had lost.

Honey If they are showing the girl the ropes then yes they deserve half of whatever she makes.
If they are screening and actually care about her well being then yes they deserve half of what she makes.
I worked for the best (considered by most) agency in Charlotte NC and they did NOT give a damn. As long as they had the "VIP" image and the girl's money... they didn't care.
I am all for an agency that keeps the girl safe, keeps her looking good, acts as a shoulder to cry on, drives her to her appointment, provides her with a 4 star or better incall to work in, provides her with professional pictures, gets her good clients and decent business..I am all for that.
Now I worked for a massage parlor briefly and they did all these things for me and I went to work with a smile on my face everyday and I made bank each and every single day. If they were still in the carolinas I wouldn't be indie.. I'd go back to giving my money because they (the woman and her daughter) treated me like family. 9/10 agencies put the men that call them before the ladies that work for them and it's not fair. I am friends with an agency owner here and the way he talks about his girls?... I feel for them. That is why I am all for the independent woman.

And yes I do understand that sometimes calling an agency is much more convienient. Originally Posted by Naomi4u

The better way to do it would be if an experienced independent lady would take a new girl under her wing with a financial arrangement. That might even include showing her how to do a session, and then being present for the next few to coach her through the session. she could also help her get her website up and show here how to do a few of the business tasks involved in being a provider--then take training wheels off after a couple of weeks.

Sort of a watch one, do one, teach one model...

Think that might catch on?

Hi Naomi!

I can completely understand and agree with what you are saying.

It is my personal belief that *some* (notice I said some, not all) agencies essentially take advantage of women who don't know any better. Some of the stories I've heard of near-nonexistent screening, etc. are pretty horrifying. IMHO, such agencies are little better than stereotypical pimps except they are worse in that they won't physically kick a bad client's ass. So you have the loss of money of a pimp and none of the benefit.

I agree that's a sad thing. Of course, entire industries in this country are founded on the exploitation of (hopefully very temporary) ignorance. SO the minute an exploitable person becomes noticed; somebody is there to pounce. Originally Posted by Laurentius

I agree! There are very few GOOD agencies and When I say very few I mean .. I haven't heard of them yet but I know they're out there.. heh.

I think the best that a well-intended person can do is either not support such situations (the hobbyist side) or counsel those who are being exploited in order to help induce better decisions (the provider side).

Ditto.

Helping a lady either get better service (screening, driving, etc) for what is deducted or to keep more of her production (become an owner if she is so-inclined) is a win for everyone, IMHO.

Totally agree.

On the flip side, I have a lady friend who once tried to start an agency. She was essentially taking in clueless women, investing gobs of money in them she wouldn't have even invested in herself, and then having them steal from her.

From their perspective, they were entitled to do that. But they never grasped how much she invested up front in them in pro photos, individual eros ads, wardrobe and all that.

That is messed up. Agency owners complain about this all the time. Unfortunately there will always be bad apples. You just can't avoid them.

She tried to run a legitimate agency where the employees were really treated well, and got kicked in the teeth. The only justice was when she said "Fine, you are on your own" -- they couldn't make it as indies and wound up working for an agency that made them appreciate what they had lost.

Indy is tough work but it's not all that hard. I question the education level of the ladies that choose to work for these agencies that exploit them smh. I've booked calls for a few girls before and .. it was the worst! Women complain and whine too damn much. One day they're your friends because they made no money. lol

The better way to do it would be if an experienced independent lady would take a new girl under her wing with a financial arrangement. That might even include showing her how to do a session, and then being present for the next few to coach her through the session. she could also help her get her website up and show here how to do a few of the business tasks involved in being a provider--then take training wheels off after a couple of weeks.

Sort of a watch one, do one, teach one model...

Think that might catch on? Originally Posted by ANONONE

Babe, the only way I'd do this is if the lady was a really close friend.
I'd advice everyone else to buy Amanda brook's book, read Ciara of buffalo's PHD in hooking , I'd send them as many site links on sex work, smack them on the back, wish them luck.. because me showing them the ropes would be pandering. LOL. I just don't trust easy.Anything can happen and plus... I'm sure she'd turn on me sooner or later.

Ok Maybe "sad" was wrong choice of word.

You are taking things way too seriously. How am I being hypocritical? Because I said she should keep all of her money? I'm just saying what I would do. I have worked for an agency.. you haven't. I know what it's like to deposit almost 10k a week into the agency account.. you don't. Why give someone else all that money? That is what I meant.. However you're right maybe that's exactly what she wants. Everyone's lifestyle is different and of course I understand that. I don't care how a lady chooses to run her business. That is her business. However, If a girlfriend of mine wanted to work with an agency this is exactly what I'd tell her. Originally Posted by Naomi4u

So to give the agency $10000.00 a week that mean't you were pulling in $20000.00 a week. That would be 20 sessions of 1000.00 per session per week. So now you do 300 or 400 per hour. In order to make the same 10000.00 per week that you say was a rip you need to do 50 sessions per week. Thats a minimum of 8 per day. Now your on this site at least 3 hrs a day. so other than sleeping you must be in a session at all times 7 days a week. Wheeew you must be a tired lady.

So to give the agency $10000.00 a week that mean't you were pulling in $20000.00 a week. That would be 20 sessions of 1000.00 per session per week. So now you do 300 or 400 per hour. In order to make the same 10000.00 per week that you say was a rip you need to do 50 sessions per week. Thats a minimum of 8 per day. Now your on this site at least 3 hrs a day. so other than sleeping you must be in a session at all times 7 days a week. Wheeew you must be a tired lady. Originally Posted by burkalini

Obviously you did NOT read this thread. I worked with this agency last year. I am not with an agency now. I am independent. I have already said I cannot work as much as I used to know due to family obligations. That is why I have a 3 hour minimum now....Do you get it now burk? Can you please go back and read everything I posted before making silly comments?

Like RIGHT now .. I am sitting at home with my family. I have also stated in another thread that I have a business that supports my family. Since you follow me around so much I thought you would at least know that without me having to repeat myself.