The only demographic in America that reliably opposes abortion access is older men

The truth be told, none of these right wingers would have anything to do with the women they are wanting to carry a pregnancy to term.

baby has no idea whats going on. Not even born yet Originally Posted by winn dixie

How do you know what it thinks or feels or comprehends?

Science hasn’t and can’t make that determination. At least not in terms of human life. That’s why viability Independant of the uterus is the proper standard. Once it’s viable outside the womb I think we’d all agree it’s a “living human”. Prior, not so much. There may be a heartbeat at 6 weeks but no working lungs, kidneys, etc. most other organs have not developed to the point they are capable of getting the embryo alive.

Once we (science hospitals etc) can remove a six week embryo and keep it alive, I say they should do so in lieu of abortion. The state can care feed and raise the little buggers. Originally Posted by 1blackman1

I see you didn't read the article I posted but I didn't think you would, you have no intellectual curiosity. It was a "scientific study" and it explained the difference between life, a scientific determination and person-hood, a philosophical opinion.


To say that science can't determine when life begins, is a remarkable ignorant thing to say. The article explains in detail how that determination is made. Read it, you might learn something.


But having determined when life begins in no way demands that you vote with that in mind. I believe that life begins with fertilization but that does not "require" me to vote that way nor am I required to explain why I feel the way I do.

baby has no idea whats going on. Not even born yet Originally Posted by winn dixie

A fetus can feel pain, that's why doctors use anesthesia on a fetus being operating on in the womb so I would think if you can feel pain, you know what is going on, YOU'RE FEELING PAIN, that's what is going on.

I see you didn't read the article I posted but I didn't think you would, you have no intellectual curiosity. It was a "scientific study" and it explained the difference between life, a scientific determination and person-hood, a philosophical opinion.


To say that science can't determine when life begins, is a remarkable ignorant thing to say. The article explains in detail how that determination is made. Read it, you might learn something.


But having determined when life begins in no way demands that you vote with that in mind. I believe that life begins with fertilization but that does not "require" me to vote that way nor am I required to explain why I feel the way I do. Originally Posted by HedonistForever

I glanced at your article. I stand by what I said. If it’s not viable outside the womb I’m not convinced it’s “human life”. As I noted, some necessary organs have yet to form at 6 weeks so there’s zero chance of viability.

baby has no idea whats going on. Not even born yet Originally Posted by winn dixie

I’m pretty sure that is exactly what every Abortionist tells young women.

I say abortion should be legal and free.

I say abortion should be legal and free. Originally Posted by winn dixie

So do MOST people in this country.

I say abortion should be legal and free. Originally Posted by winn dixie

Ok, to what period of fetal development.
Six weeks? Sixteen weeks? Three minutes before natural birth?

That is really the big question.

Maybe Abortionist should start filming their procedures and post pictures of the aborted fetus on face book.

Let us all be a witness to what is going on.

Same with mass shootijg. Hell any shootings. We should display what the bodies look like so we can be less dispassionate about all loss of life. Show mangled bodies from war, etc. I’m all for people getting the real picture

I’m pretty sure that is exactly what every Abortionist tells young women. Originally Posted by Jackie S

How many "Abortionist" do you know?

Up to 12 weeks a female just gets a couple of pills and has the abortion at home. No anesthesia, just a flush and its gone.

Same with mass shootijg. Hell any shootings. We should display what the bodies look like so we can be less dispassionate about all loss of life. Show mangled bodies from war, etc. I’m all for people getting the real picture Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Now we're getting some where. Let's build a Coliseum and take the worst of the worst and pull them apart with horses, let lions tear them to shreds and put it all on TV. It would get the highest ratings in TV history.


We should be putting hundreds of people to death on a regular basis and we'll start with mass shooters regardless of color.


I'll let the reader decide if I'm being sarcastic or not................I'm not.

The Romans dug it, but I’ve gotta disagree. Normalizing and numbing people to the effects of violence isn’t a good thing, especially for kids.

I glanced at your article. I stand by what I said. If it’s not viable outside the womb I’m not convinced it’s “human life”. As I noted, some necessary organs have yet to form at 6 weeks so there’s zero chance of viability. Originally Posted by 1blackman1

You should read the whole article because it addresses nicely everything you just said giving differences between "life", person hood and viability.


On the matter of viability, addressing whether this "human life" ( what the heck else would it be but human ) could live outside the womb, in no way addresses when life begins. It can begin at fertilization and it could also not live out side at that time. The two are not mutually exclusive.


As to "necessary organs" to live outside the womb, this also does not negate the fact that a human life "starts" at fertilization.


I'm quite sure the only reason you and others do not want to accept this scientific fact that once a sperm meets an egg and is fertilized the "process" of life begins, is the fear that this would end the abortion debate but it doesn't have to. Just because it is a scientific fact, as you demonstrated, does not compel you to give up what you choose to believe. It is entirely possible to say I believe that life begins at fertilization but I don't care because I'm only concerned about viability. No scientist in the world would debate that wording. They will of course debate viability.


Don't just glance at it, read the whole thing, it will take less than a couple of minutes of your time and quit worrying whether it could change your mind because you don't want to change your mind. I get that.


I believe that life begins at fertilization and I also believe that females do not have to forgo what they want to do until viability. One can believe both. I'm proof of that.