MAP SHOWS HIGH GUN OWNERSHIP = LOW CRIME

Come on!!! Ground invasion of the U.S.??? Comparing the U.S. of today to the U.S. back in the 1940s as to why the Japanese didn't attack U.S. soil??? The lack of firepower for a militia???

Yes, if I REALLY worried about those issues the video would have some validity to me. I don't even waste time thinking about it. If I were you I'd focus on more relevant issues in your day-to-day life. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Just because you're not concerned about something doesn't mean you are exempt from it.

what's the point again, IBNutz?

what do you want everybody to admit?

guns don't kill people, crime does?

Criminals don't need guns. Just drugs?

Drug gangs commit murders? And they use guns.

If criminals are outlawed then only outlaws will be criminals?


YOU KEEP PRESENTING RESEARCH BUT HAVEN'T YET TOLD US WHAT POINT YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE. YOU KNOW, THE "AH HA, HE'S RIGHT!" MOMENT OF THE DEBATE.

YOU JUST KEEP ARGUING ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON...

If you have a point you're trying to prove, please state it. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

So what are you and all the other blind mice advocating? Ban guns and all else follows.

Just because you're not concerned about something doesn't mean you are exempt from it. Originally Posted by acp5762

You are 100% correct. When the (fill in the blank) army comes rushing across our borders I will be in the same predicament as you. When the U.S. army treats U.S citizens like the Chinese army did in Tienanmen Square then I will not be exempt from that either.

Do you REALLY have any concern about those things happening?

It's quite charming when y'all, when relating guun ownership and gun violence between countries of similar demographics, seem to think Europe is as depicted in Downton Abbey, all the girls are virgins until they marry and there is no problem of drug gangs or drug violence.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...e-1426383.html


Back to the mud slinging.

ps, what this also illustrates is that:

- nobody knows how many illegal weapons are in circulation, they can merely guess.

- illegal guns are obtained from other countries, so relating, say, UK gun crime to UK registered gun ownership is as ridiculous as relating NY gun crime to NY registered ownership.

In short, all these 'statistics' which have been presented in this thread are a whole heap of shit.

Probably the 50% at the bottom of the above link is also a pure guess.

Now, what about an intelligent discussion on how to reduce the influence of drug gangs and violence, and reduce the culture of a gun as a fashion accessory and a cool thing to own?

I liked the quote from a director about Oscar nominees who said that Tarantino's latest is 3 hours of masturbation. What gets Tarantino (and his audience) hard?

ps. before y'all start jumping on me and putting words into my mouth, remember that historically the right to bear arms came from a UK tradition. But that is the subject of other endless debates which have played out a long time ago.

You are 100% correct. When the (fill in the blank) army comes rushing across our borders I will be in the same predicament as you. When the U.S. army treats U.S citizens like the Chinese army did in Tienanmen Square then I will not be exempt from that either.

Do you REALLY have any concern about those things happening? Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Not in particular. But my main concern is the idea that Gun Control is essential to reducing crime and violence. Go tour a major penetentiary and talk to some violent inmates about crime and guns. What they will most likely tell you is they will always be able to obtain guns, even Assault type weapons regardless of a ban. Guns are necessary evil. What we need to do is combat crime and not so much the tools of the trade. The whole idea of that video was when the enemy thinks no one has any weapons they will act more boldly. Don't fall into the trap of a false sense of security thinking nothing can happen. Just being aware of the possibilities is a form of self preservation.

So what are you and all the other blind mice advocating? Ban guns and all else follows. Originally Posted by acp5762

You do like to offer extremes don't you?

Ive never advocated banning all guns. Not at all.

and you gun nuts calling ANYBODY blind mice is laughable. Why is even a discussion of gun regulations off the table?

and don't give me that Bible thumper shit about the founding fathers.

You do like to offer extremes don't you?

Ive never advocated banning all guns. Not at all.

and you gun nuts calling ANYBODY blind mice is laughable. Why is even a discussion of gun regulations off the table?

and don't give me that Bible thumper shit about the founding fathers. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Ya see the problem I really have when I hear the word or phrase " Gun Ban" is it's really not a ban at all. It really is a political way to influence people's thinking on guns and gun ownership. To truly ban guns or a particular type of gun is to first stop making it. Following that is to seize all existing Guns of the ban from the market and destroy them. Individuals that may already have a banned gun in their possession need to make sure they are never discovered.

Attachment 197656

Much better than the contents of most posts in this thread!

It's quite charming when y'all, when relating guun ownership and gun violence between countries of similar demographics, seem to think Europe is as depicted in Downton Abbey, all the girls are virgins until they marry and there is no problem of drug gangs or drug violence.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...e-1426383.html


Back to the mud slinging. Originally Posted by essence

Anyone who said that European countries such as the U.K,, Germany, France, etc. didn't have problems of their own regarding crime, raise their hand? Anyone? Anyone?

Only when compared to the U.S. do they seem like the Garden of Eden regarding homicides:.

U.S. homicide rate -- 5.22 per 100,00
U.K. --1.57
Germany -- .8
France -- 1.35
Italy -- 1.16
Spain -- .91
Japan -- .45
Canada -- 1.67

http://chartsbin.com/view/1454

However, the U.K. has a higher violent crime rate per 100,000 people than the U.S. so they have problems of their own.

Not in particular. But my main concern is the idea that Gun Control is essential to reducing crime and violence. Go tour a major penetentiary and talk to some violent inmates about crime and guns. What they will most likely tell you is they will always be able to obtain guns, even Assault type weapons regardless of a ban. Guns are necessary evil. What we need to do is combat crime and not so much the tools of the trade. The whole idea of that video was when the enemy thinks no one has any weapons they will act more boldly. Don't fall into the trap of a false sense of security thinking nothing can happen. Just being aware of the possibilities is a form of self preservation. Originally Posted by acp5762

I'll take my chances. I don't own a gun and doubtful I ever will. Japan has very, very strict gun control laws and very, very low crime rates. So your statement that guns are needed to reduce crime and violence is somewhat flawed.

Do I worry about being the victim of a violent crime? Not at all. You are 4 times as likely to be killed in your car as your are from being a homcide victim. Yet I'm sure you will be out driving your car today. As someone in another thread on this forum stated, and he was a gun owner, more people die in their homes BECAUSE there are guns in the home than kill others trying to invade their homes.

Look, I'm not up on my soap box trying to convince anyone who owns a gun that they should get rid of them. It is up to each person to decide for themselves what they need to do to protect themselves, whether it be in their homes,their cars, or on the street. I've made my decision and I'm very content with my choice, probably as you are with your choice.

[QUOTE=essence;1052396516]ps, what this also illustrates is that:

- nobody knows how many illegal weapons are in circulation, they can merely guess.

Very true.

- illegal guns are obtained from other countries, so relating, say, UK gun crime to UK registered gun ownership is as ridiculous as relating NY gun crime to NY registered ownership.

Nothing in the data sources presented stated that the gun crime in the U.K. is related to registered gun ownership in the U.K. Since in the U.S. guns do not have to be registered, I have no idea how the sources estimated total number of guns in the U.S.
Do you think the data is grossly incorrect?

In short, all these 'statistics' which have been presented in this thread are a whole heap of shit.

When multiple sources of data come up with the same, or very similar results, I think the data is accurate, or at least believable. Do you find any of the statistics to be not believeable?

Probably the 50% at the bottom of the above link is also a pure guess.

Now, what about an intelligent discussion on how to reduce the influence of drug gangs and violence, and reduce the culture of a gun as a fashion accessory and a cool thing to own?

I agree!! And I would say that there is probably very little that can be done. WIll new gun control legislation help? Probably very little, if any. Will it hurt? Not in my opinion. Will anything be done in the near future to reduce the influence of drug gangs and their associated violence? Last I saw, everyone in government is looking to reduce spending, not increase it. So I'd say what we are doing today is our best shot, no pun intended. Change gun attitudes? You've got to be kidding.

How to Breed Violence

If we truly want to curb gun violence in this nation, we must be honest about where most of it is happening – and more important, why it continues to happen – and how we can help create environments where continued gun-related violence cannot continue to breed.

The truth is, the majority of the gun-related murders in this country don't occur in suburban high schools, movie theaters, and high-rise office suites...

The majority of the gun-related murders in this nation are found in our most violent cities where there are specific commonalities, no matter where you go.

What are those commonalities?

The districts and neighborhoods where most of the nation's murders happen are plagued by broken homes, third- and fourth-generation welfare families, high unemployment, low literacy rates, rampant drug abuse, and limited opportunities for kids to spend their time constructively.

This isn't rocket science, folks. But to attack these problems takes hard work and dedication. Something most lawmakers seem to lack these days.

As well, lawmakers need to start taking more responsibility for their own bureaucratic inefficiencies and shortcomings.

19 Strikes

It always amazes me as to how many violent criminals walk the streets after committing violent crimes.

Chicago's the perfect example.

A couple of weeks ago, in one of the nation's deadliest cities, a 15-year-old boy was charged with armed robbery.

Folks, this was his 19th arrest and his second gun-related charge.
Let me repeat that.

This was his 19th arrest and his second gun-related charge.

His name is Jesus Castaneda, or as he's known in the streets, “Little Rowdy.”
So while “Little Rowdy” is out robbing people at gun-point, virtually free from prosecution apparently, law-abiding gun owners who wish only to collect, protect or hunt are being hassled by lawmakers.

Does anyone else see a problem with this?

Someone has some explaining to do as to why Chicago's lawmakers have been busy drafting legislation to ban handguns from law-abiding gun owners while Jesus Castaneda was out on the streets, committing armed robbery – his 19th crime that's actually been verified.
http://www.wealthdaily.com/articles/...-19-times/3991

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...andra-simonton


. . . and yet dumb-ass, libertard Illinois politicians have the audacity to blame Indiana for it's lax gun laws for Chicago's high gun-homicide rate, and it’s these same dumb-ass, libertard politicians – like Rahm Emanuel who don’t insure the enforcement of laws already on the books – who insist on more, Draconian gun-control laws as the panacea for a societal-behavioral problem their dumb-asses are enabling.

. . . and yet dumb-ass, libertard Illinois politicians have the audacity to blame Indiana for it's lax gun laws for Chicago's high gun-homicide rate, and it’s these same dumb-ass, libertard politicians – like Rahm Emanuel who don’t insure the enforcement of laws already on the books – who insist on more, Draconian gun-control laws as the panacea for a societal-behavioral problem their dumb-asses are enabling. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Okay, you finally admit that we have a problem in the U.S. Any suggested solutions?