The GOP shows it's stupidity once again.....

Obamas EO on immigration is being challenged in the courts and odds are it wont be settled until the Supreme Court rules on it. . . .and when the challengers of the EO makes their argument befor the S.C. I sure hope thay say "well Justices, Obama said he couldn't do what he did so you must rule that its unconstitutional". . . if that's the basis of their argument then they will surely lose.

Saddam Hussein started a war, and UBL started a war, you Kool Aid sotted lib-retard. So you lie when you claim that Bush lied to start a war, you Kool Aid sotted lib-retard. And Bush's position regarding Iraq mirrored the U.N.'s, you Kool Aid sotted lib-retard:




BTW, you Kool Aid sotted lib-retard, it was Odumbo who said there were 58 states, and it was dim-retards who said man had landed on Mars and that too many troops on Guam might cause it "tip over", and it was Odumbo who first claimed he was born in Kenya:


Originally Posted by I B Hankering

"cool aid and libtard", , , such a well thought out coherent argument. I have no problem debating someone I disagree with if they have sense and can make sense. . . u sir offer neither. good day sir.

You and many libs like to claim Bush lied about WMD's just so he could invade Iraq. It's funny how he is the liar when every intelligent agency supported this viewpoint. Just about every dem in congress voted for the invasion. Many were included in the intelligent briefings and agreed with the conclusion that Iraq had WMD's. His history of using WMD's and his boasting about having WMD's also led to the almost unanimous conclusion that Iraq had WMD's. Yet the only person who lied is Bush. IMO Iraq moved his stockpile to Syria but that is beside the point. The libs seem to forget that most of the world believed the reports about WMD's. This blaming Bush is purely a partisan hack job and their attempt to change history.


The right's belief that marriage is between a man and a woman are founded in their religious beliefs. Many opposed calling it a marriage but were willing to accept a civil union or other name. They felt it degraded their belief of what marriage is. The left has turned this into the right hates gays. Some do but some libs hate gays as well. Hate for any specific group is not exclusive to one side or the other. The libs like to tout themselves as enlightened and accepting of everyone. That is unless you are conservative or don't fall in lock step with their beliefs.

I know we will never agree on any of this but just like you believe that Bush lied and all conservatives are hateful I believe that liberals for the most part are foolish and love to abide by the "do as I say not as I do" principle. They refuse to acknowledge their hypocrisy even when confronted with evidence. The typical response is to pull out the race card or as you did claim Bush's lie was worse.

This forum has some interesting viewpoints but unfortunately most threads turn into juvenile name calling within about a page and a half. Originally Posted by Budman

Bush is the one who pushed for and made the final decision to send American tropps into Iraq based on a lie. you make a reasonable and fair point when you correclt state many Dems voted for the authorization, they too deserve their fair share of blame as well as almost all Repubs in congress, but lets be real. .. this was for the most part Bush's war, thus he deserves most of the blame. The targeting of Joe Wilson and his wife because he pointed out that Bush lied about Saddam and yellow cake in Africa as well as the U.K.s downing street memo are pretty damning evidence of his deadly lies.

Of course some Dems hate gays and some Dems hate blacks and/or Hispanics. . . but to pretend that the Republican party doesn't have more members and supporters that are motivated by hatred of these groups is just ignoring the obvious. again my argument is not that dems are perfect, my argument is that dems are less evil less dangerous, less bigoted, less ignorant than republicans. when did I refer to myself as enlightened or accepting of everyone? I struggle with trying to be more enlightened and trying to be more accepting and understanding, I used to hate gays, thankfully I matured past that, I still find dudes with dudes to be disgusting but I have to tell myself that that's what makes them happy and I don't have the moral authority to stop them from marrying someone they love or to condemn them to hell. Repubs do oppose gay marriage in large part due to religion, and denying equal rights to people due to religion is simply wrong. Im sure if u look u can find some Dems who stupidly say gays are goin straight to hell (as if they know) but to pretend that Repubs don't say it far more than dems is again. . . ignoring the obvious.

Yes, these debates usually regress into dim witted insults. . . that's why I took the time to finish reading your retorts because you were able to disagree without calling me a libtard, assclown or pinhead. .. hahaha.

Bush is the one who pushed for and made the final decision to send American tropps into Iraq based on misinformation that was believed by every intelligence agency in the world and the administration of Bill Clinton. you make a reasonable and fair point when you correclt state many Dems voted for the authorization, they too deserve their fair share of blame as well as almost all Repubs in congress, but lets be real. .. this was for the most part Bush's war, thus he deserves most of the blame. Only the Congress can vote for a declaration of war or an authorization of force. By voting for it, they are accepting the burder of blame. You can try to blame them for being fooled but they saw the same evidence that Bush and Clinton did and no one forced them. The targeting of Joe Wilson and his wife because he pointed out that Bush lied which turned out to be true. It was Wilson that lied. about Saddam and yellow cake in Africa as well as the U.K.s downing street memo are pretty damning evidence of his deadly lies.

Of course some Dems hate its not hate but control and subordination gays and some Dems hate blacks and/or Hispanics. . . but to pretend that the Republican party doesn't have more members and supporters that are motivated by hatred of these groups is just ignoring the obvious. Citation or folklore? again my argument is not that dems are perfect, my argument is that dems are less evil less dangerous, less bigoted, less ignorant than republicans. when did I refer to myself as enlightened or accepting of everyone? I struggle with trying to be more enlightened and trying to be more accepting and understanding, I used to hate gays, thankfully I matured past that, I still find dudes with dudes to be disgusting but I have to tell myself that that's what makes them happy and I don't have the moral authority to stop them from marrying someone they love or to condemn them to hell. Repubs do oppose gay marriage in large part due to religion the truth be told it is more about tradition and not religion, it is also about social mores, and denying equal rights there are no rights being denied. Gay people have the same right to marry as straight people. This is about special rights. to people due to religion is simply wrong. Im sure if u look u can find some Dems (you mean like the idiots at the Westboro Baptist church who are all democrats) who stupidly say gays are goin straight to hell (as if they know) but to pretend that Repubs don't say it far more than dems is again. . . ignoring the obvious.

Yes, these debates usually regress into dim witted insults. . . that's why I took the time to finish reading your retorts because you were able to disagree without calling me a libtard, assclown or pinhead. .. hahaha. Originally Posted by southtown4488

And you end with an insult....

And you end with an insult.... Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Perhaps he was just trying to make his claim more appealing to Eccie's reigning King of Insults, JDIdiot!

"cool aid and libtard", , , such a well thought out coherent argument. I have no problem debating someone I disagree with if they have sense and can make sense. . . u sir offer neither. good day sir. Originally Posted by southtown4488

Your inability to correctly repeat what you read illustrates the degree of your learning disorder, sotted-clown. Your lying deflection from how it was Saddam Hussein and UBL who started the wars, sotted-clown, is yet another clue that you are congenitally predisposed to remain stupid and a liar. You lie when you claim that Bush lied to start a war, sotted-clown, and, to your great consternation, sotted-clown, Bush's position regarding Iraq mirrored the U.N.'s.

BTW, sotted-clown, there is nothing to debate and your continuous deflection doesn't change the facts. It was Odumbo who said there were 58 states; it was a dim-retard who said man had landed on Mars; it was a dim-retard who said that too many troops on Guam might cause it "tip over", and it was Odumbo who first claimed he was born in Kenya:

Bush is the one who pushed for and made the final decision to send American tropps into Iraq based on a lie. you make a reasonable and fair point when you correclt state many Dems voted for the authorization, they too deserve their fair share of blame as well as almost all Repubs in congress, but lets be real. .. this was for the most part Bush's war, thus he deserves most of the blame. The targeting of Joe Wilson and his wife because he pointed out that Bush lied about Saddam and yellow cake in Africa as well as the U.K.s downing street memo are pretty damning evidence of his deadly lies.

Of course some Dems hate gays and some Dems hate blacks and/or Hispanics. . . but to pretend that the Republican party doesn't have more members and supporters that are motivated by hatred of these groups is just ignoring the obvious. again my argument is not that dems are perfect, my argument is that dems are less evil less dangerous, less bigoted, less ignorant than republicans. when did I refer to myself as enlightened or accepting of everyone? I struggle with trying to be more enlightened and trying to be more accepting and understanding, I used to hate gays, thankfully I matured past that, I still find dudes with dudes to be disgusting but I have to tell myself that that's what makes them happy and I don't have the moral authority to stop them from marrying someone they love or to condemn them to hell. Repubs do oppose gay marriage in large part due to religion, and denying equal rights to people due to religion is simply wrong. Im sure if u look u can find some Dems who stupidly say gays are goin straight to hell (as if they know) but to pretend that Repubs don't say it far more than dems is again. . . ignoring the obvious.

Yes, these debates usually regress into dim witted insults. . . that's why I took the time to finish reading your retorts because you were able to disagree without calling me a libtard, assclown or pinhead. .. hahaha. Originally Posted by southtown4488

You're still lying, sotted-clown. Bush's position regarding Iraq mirrored the U.N.'s, and it was Saddam Hussein and UBL who started those wars, sotted-clown. And your lies will never change those facts, sotted-clown,

Will someone tell uber cunt that an executive order NEVER has the full power of a law. A law continues past the current congress and executive administration. It must be repealed. An executive order only lasts until someone (the next president let's say) yanks it from the record. That is why so may illegals have been reluctant to come out of the shadow as they like to say. They can come out and find the EO rescinded, then they're right back to where they were but we know who they are now.

So an illegal has more brains than uber cunt. May I suggest a trade on a case by case basis. Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Where did I say it did?

Bush is the one who pushed for and made the final decision to send American tropps into Iraq based on a lie. you make a reasonable and fair point when you correclt state many Dems voted for the authorization, they too deserve their fair share of blame as well as almost all Repubs in congress, but lets be real. .. this was for the most part Bush's war, thus he deserves most of the blame. The targeting of Joe Wilson and his wife because he pointed out that Bush lied about Saddam and yellow cake in Africa as well as the U.K.s downing street memo are pretty damning evidence of his deadly lies.

Of course some Dems hate gays and some Dems hate blacks and/or Hispanics. . . but to pretend that the Republican party doesn't have more members and supporters that are motivated by hatred of these groups is just ignoring the obvious. again my argument is not that dems are perfect, my argument is that dems are less evil less dangerous, less bigoted, less ignorant than republicans. when did I refer to myself as enlightened or accepting of everyone? I struggle with trying to be more enlightened and trying to be more accepting and understanding, I used to hate gays, thankfully I matured past that, I still find dudes with dudes to be disgusting but I have to tell myself that that's what makes them happy and I don't have the moral authority to stop them from marrying someone they love or to condemn them to hell. Repubs do oppose gay marriage in large part due to religion, and denying equal rights to people due to religion is simply wrong. Im sure if u look u can find some Dems who stupidly say gays are goin straight to hell (as if they know) but to pretend that Repubs don't say it far more than dems is again. . . ignoring the obvious.

Yes, these debates usually regress into dim witted insults. . . that's why I took the time to finish reading your retorts because you were able to disagree without calling me a libtard, assclown or pinhead. .. hahaha. Originally Posted by southtown4488

There's a point in here that gets lost and needs to be brought to the light. We aren't arguing that Democrats are perfect. Disliking the conservative agenda doesn't automatically mean I think the liberal agenda is perfect. Like he said, I believe it's less evil, less dangerous, less bigoted, etc. That's it.

Bush is the one who pushed for and made the final decision to send American tropps into Iraq based on a lie. you make a reasonable and fair point when you correclt state many Dems voted for the authorization, they too deserve their fair share of blame as well as almost all Repubs in congress, but lets be real. .. this was for the most part Bush's war, thus he deserves most of the blame. The targeting of Joe Wilson and his wife because he pointed out that Bush lied about Saddam and yellow cake in Africa as well as the U.K.s downing street memo are pretty damning evidence of his deadly lies.

Of course some Dems hate gays and some Dems hate blacks and/or Hispanics. . . but to pretend that the Republican party doesn't have more members and supporters that are motivated by hatred of these groups is just ignoring the obvious. again my argument is not that dems are perfect, my argument is that dems are less evil less dangerous, less bigoted, less ignorant than republicans. when did I refer to myself as enlightened or accepting of everyone? I struggle with trying to be more enlightened and trying to be more accepting and understanding, I used to hate gays, thankfully I matured past that, I still find dudes with dudes to be disgusting but I have to tell myself that that's what makes them happy and I don't have the moral authority to stop them from marrying someone they love or to condemn them to hell. Repubs do oppose gay marriage in large part due to religion, and denying equal rights to people due to religion is simply wrong. Im sure if u look u can find some Dems who stupidly say gays are goin straight to hell (as if they know) but to pretend that Repubs don't say it far more than dems is again. . . ignoring the obvious.

Yes, these debates usually regress into dim witted insults. . . that's why I took the time to finish reading your retorts because you were able to disagree without calling me a libtard, assclown or pinhead. .. hahaha. Originally Posted by southtown4488

There's a point in here that gets lost and needs to be brought to the light. We aren't arguing that Democrats are perfect. Disliking the conservative agenda doesn't automatically mean I think the liberal agenda is perfect. Like he said, I believe it's less evil, less dangerous, less bigoted, etc. That's it. Originally Posted by UnderConstruction

Both of you believe the conservative's are more hateful, racist, dangerous, bigoted and evil than the liberal's. The conservative's have exactly the opposite viewpoint. I believe that the left's agenda is tearing this country apart and will ultimately be the ruin of the US. I see us moving toward socialism and IMO this is a terrible outlook for the US. I am old enough that I don't think I will live long enough to see the collapse of the US but I honestly think my kids will and most certainly my grandkids. This thought breaks my heart. I was raised to work hard and earn my pay. Take advantage of the opportunities that are available but don't expect shit for free. Many people in this country have just the opposite attitude and are only looking for the handout. At some point you run out of other peoples money. The left's view is that if a conservative is against handouts it must be because of race. That is the furthest thing from the truth. I can honestly tell you that I personally don't know anyone that hates an entire race. We could argue back and forth forever and I'm sure neither one of us will change out fundamental views. We may come to some middle ground that we can agree on but I will never change my core beliefs and I'm sure you won't either. History will eventually determine which side was correct.

Both of you believe the conservative's are more hateful, racist, dangerous, bigoted and evil than the liberal's. The conservative's have exactly the opposite viewpoint. I believe that the left's agenda is tearing this country apart and will ultimately be the ruin of the US. I see us moving toward socialism and IMO this is a terrible outlook for the US. I am old enough that I don't think I will live long enough to see the collapse of the US but I honestly think my kids will and most certainly my grandkids. This thought breaks my heart. I was raised to work hard and earn my pay. Take advantage of the opportunities that are available but don't expect shit for free. Many people in this country have just the opposite attitude and are only looking for the handout. At some point you run out of other peoples money. The left's view is that if a conservative is against handouts it must be because of race. That is the furthest thing from the truth. I can honestly tell you that I personally don't know anyone that hates an entire race. We could argue back and forth forever and I'm sure neither one of us will change out fundamental views. We may come to some middle ground that we can agree on but I will never change my core beliefs and I'm sure you won't either. History will eventually determine which side was correct. Originally Posted by Budman

Do you take social security benefits? Because if you live long enough, you will certainly take more out than you put in. I'm sorry you feel the way you do. I think your fear is unnecessary. I'm glad you aren't racist, plenty of people are though and aren't afraid to tell you about it. I don't know anyone personally that is looking for a handout. There's a difference between a handout and a level playing field. I think the right is being co-opted by the christian right and I can't personally get with any of their beliefs. I think that healthcare should be a right of every citizen. If we are truly going to call ourselves the greatest country in the world, how can we if we won't even provide basic healthcare to our citizens? Owning a gun is a basic right, but a happy and healthy citizenry is not? I just can't personally understand that. Thank you for making your point without any animosity. It's rare in these threads. I'm guilty of it myself but if I'm dealt with in a decent way, I can certainly respond in kind.

Do you take social security benefits? Because if you live long enough, you will certainly take more out than you put in. I'm sorry you feel the way you do. I think your fear is unnecessary. I'm glad you aren't racist, plenty of people are though and aren't afraid to tell you about it. I don't know anyone personally that is looking for a handout. There's a difference between a handout and a level playing field. I think the right is being co-opted by the christian right and I can't personally get with any of their beliefs. I think that healthcare should be a right of every citizen. If we are truly going to call ourselves the greatest country in the world, how can we if we won't even provide basic healthcare to our citizens? Owning a gun is a basic right, but a happy and healthy citizenry is not? I just can't personally understand that. Thank you for making your point without any animosity. It's rare in these threads. I'm guilty of it myself but if I'm dealt with in a decent way, I can certainly respond in kind. Originally Posted by UnderConstruction

IMO social security is not a welfare type benefit in any way. We are required to pay into a system for our entire working life. If we collect more than we pay in then so be it. If we collect less than we pay in the government keeps the balance. It doesn't transfer to my estate. You are also only talking about how much principle we put in. Do you think that if we were to invest this same dollar amount over a 50 year working life that we would be "over collecting"? I don't look at social security or unemployment as a welfare type benefit. These are programs that we are required to pay into for our entire working life. Saying these are the same as welfare is like saying any insurance policy is a form of welfare because you may collect more than the premiums paid. Welfare is when someone collects benefits simply because they don't have any money. The reason many (not all) don't have any money is because they are to fucking lazy to work. I think that if you are on the government dole then you should be required to provide some type of service to the community. I also think drug testing should be a part of eligibility requirements.

Basic healthcare was available to all before obamacare became law. Did everyone get the very best care available? No but they still don't and never will. In fact many who pay close to zero now have better insurance than those of us who pay out the ass. I had to obtain a new policy last December. For me to keep my doctors with my previous insurer my premiums would have been almost $900 per month. I shopped companies and found one that had my doctors in the plan for $500 per month. The deductible is $6500. This is a bronze plan and only covers me. When I was completing the process the agent pulled up the wrong person and ask me the following; " Just to be sure we are on the same page does this sound right? You have chosen a gold plan with a monthly premium of $795.00. After your subsidy your monthly premium is $58.00." This is complete fucking bullshit. I'm paying for this fuckers gold plan while all I have is a bronze plan.

IMO social security is not a welfare type benefit in any way. We are required to pay into a system for our entire working life. If we collect more than we pay in then so be it. If we collect less than we pay in the government keeps the balance. It doesn't transfer to my estate. You are also only talking about how much principle we put in. Do you think that if we were to invest this same dollar amount over a 50 year working life that we would be "over collecting"? I don't look at social security or unemployment as a welfare type benefit. These are programs that we are required to pay into for our entire working life. Saying these are the same as welfare is like saying any insurance policy is a form of welfare because you may collect more than the premiums paid. Welfare is when someone collects benefits simply because they don't have any money. The reason many (not all) don't have any money is because they are to fucking lazy to work. I think that if you are on the government dole then you should be required to provide some type of service to the community. I also think drug testing should be a part of eligibility requirements.

Basic healthcare was available to all before obamacare became law. Did everyone get the very best care available? No but they still don't and never will. In fact many who pay close to zero now have better insurance than those of us who pay out the ass. I had to obtain a new policy last December. For me to keep my doctors with my previous insurer my premiums would have been almost $900 per month. I shopped companies and found one that had my doctors in the plan for $500 per month. The deductible is $6500. This is a bronze plan and only covers me. When I was completing the process the agent pulled up the wrong person and ask me the following; " Just to be sure we are on the same page does this sound right? You have chosen a gold plan with a monthly premium of $795.00. After your subsidy your monthly premium is $58.00." This is complete fucking bullshit. I'm paying for this fuckers gold plan while all I have is a bronze plan. Originally Posted by Budman

My contention is that it's a social program. And you misunderstood about insurance. I believe the cost should be provided by the government. And I'm not sure how someone else's plan affects yours. You know obamacare isn't insurance, right? It's just a set of rules the insurance companies must now follow. The only time you should be looking in another person's bowl is to make sure they have enough food to eat, not to compare it to yours.

My contention is that it's a social program. And you misunderstood about insurance. I believe the cost should be provided by the government. And I'm not sure how someone else's plan affects yours. You know obamacare isn't insurance, right? It's just a set of rules the insurance companies must now follow. The only time you should be looking in another person's bowl is to make sure they have enough food to eat, not to compare it to yours. Originally Posted by UnderConstruction

Most of your post makes zero sense. It may be a social program but it is one that we pay for our entire working life. What do you think I misunderstood?

The cost of what should be provided by the government?

I know obamacare is not insurance but the rules now require many to buy insurance they don't want or need. My premiums went up appx 25% for an inferior plan. The other fucker gets a hell of a lot better policy at a fraction of the cost because my tax dollars are paying for it. That's fucking bullshit. How about if you're not paying the full premium and are getting a subsidy then the only plan you are eligible for is a basic plan. Bronze if you will. Why should I as a tax payer be paying for your gold plan insurance?

Most of your post makes zero sense. It may be a social program but it is one that we pay for our entire working life. What do you think I misunderstood?

The cost of what should be provided by the government?

I know obamacare is not insurance but the rules now require many to buy insurance they don't want or need. My premiums went up appx 25% for an inferior plan. The other fucker gets a hell of a lot better policy at a fraction of the cost because my tax dollars are paying for it. That's fucking bullshit. How about if you're not paying the full premium and are getting a subsidy then the only plan you are eligible for is a basic plan. Bronze if you will. Why should I as a tax payer be paying for your gold plan insurance? Originally Posted by Budman

Government should be providing health insurance. I'm not sure how much more simply I can put it. I also love it when someone bitches about what their tax dollars are going for, as if they have an itemized list. You don't know what your tax dollars are really paying for. You drive on roads, you have police and fire, children have schools to go to, etc. Are you begrudging someone access to healthcare? Republicans have this idea that everyone who gets assistance is some drag on the system, do-nothing bum. And that's the farthest thing from the truth. There are a lot of hardworking people who simply can't make ends meet. Hardworking people who live paycheck to paycheck. We can argue about why that is, but there will always be different socioeconomic strata in this country. Shouldn't there be systems in place to help those people? Or are you just that fucking coldhearted?

Government should be providing health insurance. I'm not sure how much more simply I can put it. I also love it when someone bitches about what their tax dollars are going for, as if they have an itemized list. You don't know what your tax dollars are really paying for. You drive on roads, you have police and fire, children have schools to go to, etc. Are you begrudging someone access to healthcare? Republicans have this idea that everyone who gets assistance is some drag on the system, do-nothing bum. And that's the farthest thing from the truth. There are a lot of hardworking people who simply can't make ends meet. Hardworking people who live paycheck to paycheck. We can argue about why that is, but there will always be different socioeconomic strata in this country. Shouldn't there be systems in place to help those people? Or are you just that fucking coldhearted? Originally Posted by UnderConstruction

The government spends a boat load of money I disagree with. You seem to think that anytime government spends money they do so responsible. Or maybe closer to the point is if they spend money on programs you agree with then the rest of us should agree as well or we are just fucking coldhearted. This government is out of control and the spending must be reigned in or the end is closer than any of us think. Do you honestly believe that if the government runs healthcare in this country it will be done efficiently and the quality will not suffer? What does the government do efficiently? The post office? The VA? Where does the nanny state end and personal responsibility pickup? I want the government to keep the country safe. To secure our borders and streamline legal immigration. To maintain the infrastructure of our roads and power grid. There are others but you get my point. I want the government to stay out of my life and let me be.