Creation or Evolution? (Maybe both)

You must think that I am some kind of Literalist Fundamentalist
that believes in a Universal Flood Theory, and some Young
Earth Theory, I am not.

A localized flood is plausible and has no problem fitting into
the biblical story.

This mans article (If you bother to read it) dose a very good job
of proving that.
www.orange-street-church.org/text/noah-flood.htm

The only quarrel I have with his article is that it might lead
someone to believe that anyone that believes in creationism
also holds a literal fundamentalist view of all things biblical
as well, this is not true.

Do I believe there was a man named Noah that God told to build
an Ark and take his family and some animals aboard it because
there was going to be a flood--YES

Do I believe that it was a world wide event that destroyed
all of creation--NO

There are some silly arguments that get made from both sides.

My argument mainly is that whichever you choose to accept
as the answer for existence, a creator, naturalist evolution
with no creator involved, aliens transplanting life onto
this planet. It takes faith to believe in any one of them.

Don't go and tell me that naturalist evolution is some
proven fact that cannot be questioned, and holds all
authority over all other ideas on the origins of life and
existence-- It quite simply dose not. Originally Posted by bojulay

So basically, you think a lot of the bible is bullshit and you customize or redefine the writings to fit more comfortably with a plausible interpretation. Did I get that right?

So basically, you think a lot of the bible is bullshit and you customize or redefine the writings to fit more comfortably with a plausible interpretation. Did I get that right? Originally Posted by Lust4xxxLife

I see you didn't read the link.

Finally someone besides Look At Dumbass

Your post is an example of an Agnostic frame of reference.

Has anyone even bothered to read my first post.
Yes Micro evolution has been proven, it can be
seen within a given species within even a very
short period of time, a built in mechanism for
adaptability. Macro evolution has not been proven,
just assumed. Assumed that somehow Micro evolution
proves that Macro evolution occurred, not proof
just assumption requiring faith to be believed.

The Naturalistic view: Since God dose not exist
then Macro evolution is true even though we
cannot prove it. (Just a form of intellectual
bullshit.)

Their answer is always along the lines of we just
haven't found it yet but it's out there and we will
and that's all you need to know. And every new
fossil find is the missing link we've been looking
for until, oh wait no it's not, sorry our bad and
cetra cetra ad nauseum.

Not willing to say ours is a possibility we believe
to be true.

But ours is the only one to be considered.


Intellectual despotism, totalitarian in nature,
dictatorial in execution.

Me afraid of something dancewear, I've
never really been afraid of anything that
I can think of.

I just have a really good built in bullshit detector.
Intellectual bullshit is the worst kind of all.

Faith is required for all the different beliefs about
the origins and development of the universe and
all that is contained there in.

That puts them all on a level playing field.

Is faith required to be an Agnostic?

A faith in the ideal that there is something that
is true, without the willingness to commit to
any certain one, I suppose. Originally Posted by bojulay

I love it when I beat down ignorant little cretins so bad all they can do is insult like snot nosed little punks. You sure as hell can't debate with me since I documented in detail HOW you are stupid. Pissed? I know you are. My laugh for the day

I love it when I beat down ignorant little cretins so bad all they can do is insult like snot nosed little punks. You sure as hell can't debate with me since I documented in detail HOW you are stupid. Pissed? I know you are. My laugh for the day Originally Posted by Look-at-Stupid

Jesus! Look-At-What An Assknob I Am, I'm really starting
to question your mental stability.

I think your probably just a silly troll and you know it,
come on level with us.

Your silly amateurish attempts at rhetoric and childish
insults are merely amusing, and rather sad if you are
serious and not just trying to play the troll.

Snot nosed little punk? I'm six two and weigh 260lb
spent my life in the oil field, through shrewd investments
I no longer have to do a damn thing that I don't want
to do. Liberal arts degree, That may be the best one.

If you met me in person YES SIR would be your favorite
phrase of choice.

Why don't you run along now silly little troll and find
someone of your own limited size and mental capacity
to try and mess with.

Better yet, go try and evolve into someone that has a clue.

and the count 1-2-3 he's out.

Finally someone besides Look At Dumbass

Your post is an example of an Agnostic frame of reference.

Has anyone even bothered to read my first post.
Yes Micro evolution has been proven, it can be
seen within a given species within even a very
short period of time, a built in mechanism for
adaptability. Macro evolution has not been proven,
just assumed. Assumed that somehow Micro evolution
proves that Macro evolution occurred, not proof
just assumption requiring faith to be believed.

The Naturalistic view: Since God dose not exist
then Macro evolution is true even though we
cannot prove it. (Just a form of intellectual
bullshit.)

Their answer is always along the lines of we just
haven't found it yet but it's out there and we will
and that's all you need to know. And every new
fossil find is the missing link we've been looking
for until, oh wait no it's not, sorry our bad and
cetra cetra ad nauseum.

Not willing to say ours is a possibility we believe
to be true.

But ours is the only one to be considered.


Intellectual despotism, totalitarian in nature,
dictatorial in execution.

Me afraid of something dancewear, I've
never really been afraid of anything that
I can think of.

I just have a really good built in bullshit detector.
Intellectual bullshit is the worst kind of all.

Faith is required for all the different beliefs about
the origins and development of the universe and
all that is contained there in.

That puts them all on a level playing field.

Is faith required to be an Agnostic?

A faith in the ideal that there is something that
is true, without the willingness to commit to
any certain one, I suppose. Originally Posted by bojulay

You still maintain that Macro doesn't have enough proof but it certainly does. Evolutionary biologists have been able to see the transitions through not only individual species but entire classes tell a pretty big story.

If you have the genetic data presented in the right environment then it is quite simple to see the transition between fish, amphibians, reptiles, mammals. You see not only inter-special changes but entire class changes.

So either you truly are not convinced or are fearful but adequate evidence has been presented. You have to remember that unless you believe in a conspiracy which is fear related, the research has been done. It isn't intellectual BS, it is empirically tested and has been debated for over a century in our proudest era of scientific achievement and capability. There is no question whether or not Macro evolution is a reality, there is only accepting it at this point and remembering it does not effect your religion.

The rise of life from matter, accurately said that there is no such thing as "Dead Matter" unless you are referring to an organic life that is made up of matter dying and thus being a dead being made up of matter. The Abiogenesis of life is simply that the conditions were correct and just a single simple life form was formed from it which split asexually, recombined and adapted, and eventually we had offspring branching in every which direction which in billions of years led to us.

When I refer to "fear" I mean it in the sense that "Shaking one's faith" tends to make them feel uneasy about life or the after life.

The beauty of evolution is that one day I can expect our descendent species to even be able to create an afterlife if they choose using the patterns we leave during our time here. It is astounding what -MIGHT- happen as a result.

I wouldn't let Look at Stupid get to you Bojoulay we are having an intellectual debate not a battle of ego. Although I can certainly see how abusive behavior would make you finally want to open up a can of whoop ass. At least some of us have evolved beyond meaningless shit flinging.

Also internet tough guys, seriously, do we really need to resort to that?

Oh well, if so, I suppose we have a nice show to watch!

through shrewd investments
I no longer have to do a damn thing that I don't want
to do. Originally Posted by bojulay

and this is what you choose to do? congrats on your shrewd investments...why are you not golfing or sailing or climbing mountains or anything other than this? i hoped that if i someday made some shrewd investments and no longer had to do a damned thing that i didn't want to do that my life would be so exciting i wouldn't waste what time i had in life arguing on this insignificant site. and i sure as fuck wouldn't live in dallas.

party on bojulay! and YES SIR loser SIR! hopefully you can tear yourself away from all the cool things your shrewd investments allow you to do to respond soon.

JPdM

and this is what you choose to do? congrats on your shrewd investments...why are you not golfing or sailing or climbing mountains or anything other than this? i hoped that if i someday made some shrewd investments and no longer had to do a damned thing that i didn't want to do that my life would be so exciting i wouldn't waste what time i had in life arguing on this insignificant site. and i sure as fuck wouldn't live in dallas.

party on bojulay! and YES SIR loser SIR! hopefully you can tear yourself away from all the cool things your shrewd investments allow you to do to respond soon.

JPdM Originally Posted by Juan Pablo de Marco

Uhm, seems that you are on here responding, why are you not out golfing,
sailing, or climbing mountains or anything other than this. Maybe someday
you'll make some shrewd investments and you wont have to be on here
responding to me.

Like I said I do what I want to do, travel when I want, go where I want,
planing a trip right now. FYI I hate to golf, don't care for sailing,
climbing a mountain? please. Harleys Juan, Harley Davidson Motorcycles.

Just thought I would fill you in a little more since my life
holds such a fascination for you. LOSER? If I'm a loser being
a loser sure is a blast. Maybe someday you can be a loser too.

Enough about me already I starting to blush.

You still maintain that Macro doesn't have enough proof but it certainly does. Evolutionary biologists have been able to see the transitions through not only individual species but entire classes tell a pretty big story.

If you have the genetic data presented in the right environment then it is quite simple to see the transition between fish, amphibians, reptiles, mammals. You see not only inter-special changes but entire class changes.

So either you truly are not convinced or are fearful but adequate evidence has been presented. You have to remember that unless you believe in a conspiracy which is fear related, the research has been done. It isn't intellectual BS, it is empirically tested and has been debated for over a century in our proudest era of scientific achievement and capability. There is no question whether or not Macro evolution is a reality, there is only accepting it at this point and remembering it does not effect your religion.

The rise of life from matter, accurately said that there is no such thing as "Dead Matter" unless you are referring to an organic life that is made up of matter dying and thus being a dead being made up of matter. The Abiogenesis of life is simply that the conditions were correct and just a single simple life form was formed from it which split asexually, recombined and adapted, and eventually we had offspring branching in every which direction which in billions of years led to us.

When I refer to "fear" I mean it in the sense that "Shaking one's faith" tends to make them feel uneasy about life or the after life.

The beauty of evolution is that one day I can expect our descendent species to even be able to create an afterlife if they choose using the patterns we leave during our time here. It is astounding what -MIGHT- happen as a result.

I wouldn't let Look at Stupid get to you Bojoulay we are having an intellectual debate not a battle of ego. Although I can certainly see how abusive behavior would make you finally want to open up a can of whoop ass. At least some of us have evolved beyond meaningless shit flinging.

Also internet tough guys, seriously, do we really need to resort to that?

Oh well, if so, I suppose we have a nice show to watch! Originally Posted by exoticdanceweardealer

Get to me, no one gets to Bojulay, I find him just slightly amusing.

And no Macro evolution hasn't been proven, many have given up
on finding the literally thousands of missing link fossils that just
aren't there, and have come up with a new theory that they aren't
needed. They have had to since none have been found.

Their explanation for the Cambrian Explosion is very weak
at best. Their explanation-- "The other fossils just weren't
preserved" excuse me, just weren't preserved, what a
convenient little answer that is. Why weren't they preserved?
We don't know they just weren't. Nothing proven again,
just assumed.

To say that they just weren't preserved is to say that they
are necessary but not found. Goes back to what I said earlier,
leaves the theory unproven, requires faith to believe.

That claim about matter goes back to semantics again.
Merely semantics, matter that is without life, yes to call it
dead matter might imply that at one time it had life
and now no longer dose, but that is just semantics,
really has no implication on the idea that life somehow
spontaneously generated from matter that had no life.

They don't even want to touch that one, even gave
it a new name (Abiogenesis) to try and distance themselves
from it. But they still believe in that newly named theory
(Abiogenesis)

Naturalist evolutionist--We believe in Abiogenesis because it
is all we have but totally unprovable, so we have tried to
distance ourselves from it and call it something else, even
though it is the starting point of our theory and we have
nowhere to go without it, maybe no one will notice how
ridiculous that is and at least it will give us a point to argue
from and so on and so on.

Just one last questiion for bojulay:

I don't think I understand what you are refering to when you talk about "macro evolution".
the fossil record is overwhelming so I do not understand that concept.

Would you mind to explain to me?

Just one last questiion for bojulay:

I don't think I understand what you are refering to when you talk about "macro evolution".
the fossil record is overwhelming so I do not understand that concept.

Would you mind to explain to me? Originally Posted by hardracer

Macro evolution: Happening on a large scale above the level of species.

Micro evolution: Happening on a small scale within a species, small changes
when compared to macro evolution, a built in adaptability process.

The origin of flight is a good example for my argument. If macro evolution were a fact, then the origin of flight should provide an excellent case to
prove its truthfulness, but it doesn't. Even though flight supposedly evolved
separately in insects, reptiles, and mammals not one transitional fossil
has ever been found between a flying creature and its alleged ancestor,
and they should be numerous. The archaeopteryx has been used to
show an alleged link between reptiles and birds, because it seemed to exhibit characteristics of reptiles as well as characteristics of birds but this
could not be a transitional animal since fossils of modern birds and the
archaeopteryx have been found together, that blows the theory,
according to the evolutionist theory, the modern birds supposedly evolved from it, then it died out and became extinct. Also, scientists have found
fossils of flying beetles that are thousands of years old, yet they look the
same as modern beetles. There are many other modern life forms that
also look like their ancient counterparts. It should also be noted that
archaeopteryx is accepted as being fully capable of flight.

A good link talking about the archaeopteryx.

http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/natu...tory_2_08.html

There is an abundance of discussion on the internet
about micro and macro evolution, do some research.

Macro evolution: Happening on a large scale above the level of species.

Micro evolution: Happening on a small scale within a species, small changes
when compared to macro evolution, a built in adaptability process.

The origin of flight is a good example for my argument. If macro evolution were a fact, then the origin of flight should provide an excellent case to
prove its truthfulness, but it doesn't. Even though flight supposedly evolved
separately in insects, reptiles, and mammals not one transitional fossil
has ever been found between a flying creature and its alleged ancestor,
and they should be numerous. The archaeopteryx has been used to
show an alleged link between reptiles and birds, because it seemed to exhibit characteristics of reptiles as well as characteristics of birds but this
could not be a transitional animal since fossils of modern birds and the
archaeopteryx have been found together, that blows the theory,
according to the evolutionist theory, the modern birds supposedly evolved from it, then it died out and became extinct. Also, scientists have found
fossils of flying beetles that are thousands of years old, yet they look the
same as modern beetles. There are many other modern life forms that
also look like their ancient counterparts. It should also be noted that
archaeopteryx is accepted as being fully capable of flight.

A good link talking about the archaeopteryx.

http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/natu...tory_2_08.html

There is an abundance of discussion on the internet
about micro and macro evolution, do some research. Originally Posted by bojulay

That you even use the laughable term "missing link" shows you to be a complete moron spouting bullshit out your ass.....plus I have clue for you little 5th grade drop-out..or I take that back, judging from your reptilian taste in that horrid old music in another thread, I'd surmise you to be a frustrated old dude who runs your mouth here since you lack the balls to do it in person.

Regardless, I still have news for you, ANYONE CAN PUT ANYTHING ON THE INTERNET LITTLE ONE!! Your laughable web site is a joke, if they know so much, what is stopping them from submitting it for peer review and claiming their Nobel Prize? Hmmmm?

Now cower away, really, it's your best bet

Jesus! Look-At-What An Assknob I Am, I'm really starting
to question your mental stability.

I think your probably just a silly troll and you know it,
come on level with us.

Your silly amateurish attempts at rhetoric and childish
insults are merely amusing, and rather sad if you are
serious and not just trying to play the troll.

Snot nosed little punk? I'm six two and weigh 260lb
spent my life in the oil field, through shrewd investments
I no longer have to do a damn thing that I don't want
to do. Liberal arts degree, That may be the best one.

If you met me in person YES SIR would be your favorite
phrase of choice.

Why don't you run along now silly little troll and find
someone of your own limited size and mental capacity
to try and mess with.

Better yet, go try and evolve into someone that has a clue.

and the count 1-2-3 he's out. Originally Posted by bojulay

Name one thing in any of my posts that denotes a lack of mental stability, or for that matter ONE THING I HAVE POSTED THAT IS NOT FACT? Nahhh, little liars only lie, they can never back their lies can they boy?

You're a snot nosed little punk if i ever saw one, and I'm 6'1" 200 lbs of ass kicking machine buddy and your worst nightmare...figures you resort to threats when you get your stupid ass handed to you on multiple occasions

I own your ass and you know it

I don't agree with the evolution theory myself. Alot of people have argued that theory seems to make more sense. I tend to think that it's just what it is...a theory. It can be wrong. In fact I seem to remember I was taught in school that Pluto was a planet. Now it seems people are taught that Pluto is NOT a planet. So who is wrong? me or them? Let's face it there are some things out there that we just cannot explain but it exists and happens. There are still monkeyes and other primates that still exist why? What about Greece and egpypt and other desert regions? it is hard for me to think primates could have lived in such a place and evolved. I tend to think of that question some people ask when it comes to this topic. The tree question. If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to see it or hear it does it make a sound? Im probably oversimplifying it alot but I honestly think someone just saw that a monkey had thumbs and said....yeah, that woks. Let's use that.

I don't agree with the evolution theory myself. Alot of people have argued that theory seems to make more sense. I tend to think that it's just what it is...a theory. It can be wrong. In fact I seem to remember I was taught in school that Pluto was a planet. Now it seems people are taught that Pluto is NOT a planet. So who is wrong? me or them? Let's face it there are some things out there that we just cannot explain but it exists and happens. There are still monkeyes and other primates that still exist why? What about Greece and egpypt and other desert regions? it is hard for me to think primates could have lived in such a place and evolved. I tend to think of that question some people ask when it comes to this topic. The tree question. If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to see it or hear it does it make a sound? Im probably oversimplifying it alot but I honestly think someone just saw that a monkey had thumbs and said....yeah, that woks. Let's use that. Originally Posted by B.Wayne

Uhhh, you have one main problem, well, two, with your thought process....for one, you're not a scientist, so your opinion does not count. For seconds, in science, a theory is NOT a guess. Gravity is also a theory. Would you care to disprove this silly theory by jumping off the nearest 10-story building? If you do let me know so I can bring my camera and put you on Youtube. A theory is the highest level that can be achieved in science. Yet another person who failed high school biology.

The rest of your rather laughable argument is plagarized from laughable creation sites and given you show ignorance of science basics, holds zero water. There are thousands of varieties of mosquitoes..why should one species go extinct just because another evolves? And YES, NEW species do evolve all the time. And since you do not believe in evolution, NEVER GET A FLU SHOT!!! It is a direct product of the study of evolutionary biology.

The facts remain, biology does not work without evolution. It is the central tenet of every certified biology curriculum in the world

That you even use the laughable term "missing link" shows you to be a complete moron spouting bullshit out your ass.....plus I have clue for you little 5th grade drop-out..or I take that back, judging from your reptilian taste in that horrid old music in another thread, I'd surmise you to be a frustrated old dude who runs your mouth here since you lack the balls to do it in person.

Regardless, I still have news for you, ANYONE CAN PUT ANYTHING ON THE INTERNET LITTLE ONE!! Your laughable web site is a joke, if they know so much, what is stopping them from submitting it for peer review and claiming their Nobel Prize? Hmmmm?

Now cower away, really, it's your best bet Originally Posted by Look-at-Stupid

This guy makes me laugh, he really dose.

Do you do parties Look-At-Moron? You would be a big hit,
with your big red nose, oversized shoes, and moronic pronouncements.

Clowns are always funny.

Your silly childish little arguments aren't even arguments,
just brain damaged little crack induced rants.

But please keep it up the entertainment value is high


Look it's time to get off of welfare, move out of your
moms basement, (there could be a gas leak or sewer
gas or something down there that's causing your
mental problems and delusions, I don't know) and
get some sort of life for yourself, before it's too late.

You remind me of a cartoon I saw one time
Look-At- Dopehead, a little ant was standing
on a railroad track shaking his fist at the train
coming at him at full speed and yelling at it
to get off his track. Guess who won.

Your patheticness, and lack of reasoning ability
is matched only by your over inflated childish ego.

But seriously, I can argue a point or idea with anyone,
but please have at least some simulance of a point
or an idea that you are trying to argue that even
makes sense.