How many of the average Americans here have used a gun for protection?

Originally Posted by i'va biggen

He's been in that position behind a male before. You can just tell. And he's probably just that quick about it too.

You forgot choice E: people on the internet are fucking idiots and will claim just about anything.

Yep, definitely have to agree that if one thinks the training they got as part of their CCL "requirement" is sufficient and they can stop there because "I'm licensed".. they are sadly mistaken... and will probably end up getting themselves or others, often innocent bystanders shot.

Its why I go at least once a month to a friend's farm where he has the space and backstop area for a safe shooting/training area and practice. Practice seated draws. Practice standing draws. Practice movement from cover to cover, along with magazine changes/reloads. To me, one of the key things is, the person has to be mentally prepared to actually shoot. If they think just drawing and "showing' the gun will take care of it but aren't ready to shoot.. they shouldn't carry.

20 years in the military with both rifle and pistol marksmanship training/qualification and I still need to practice on a regular basis. Thinking you are trained and don't need anything else because you attended CCL class.. will just get you hurt. Originally Posted by RedLeg505

lots of practice..how do you practice shooting someone while having someone attack/shoot at you?

you remind me of Forest playing ping pong by himself, how did that make him ready to play against someone who hits back?

lots of practice..how do you practice shooting someone while having someone attack/shoot at you?

you remind me of Forest playing ping pong by himself, how did that make him ready to play against someone who hits back?
Originally Posted by bigcockpussylicker

So.. the military never practices unless they have people shooting back at them? Let me guess.. it doesn't count unless the other guys are using live ammo too, right?

So.. all the military marksmanship and qualification training is totally useless and a waste of time?

Military training was available if you searched it out. I was assigned to a prison detail for a month. To begin with we were assigned 12ga shotguns. Before our first day was over we were told we would carry the 45cal 1911. The training was next to useless. I spoke to the prison NCOIC and requested additional training. Surprise the NCOIC was a gun nut and for the remainder of the month we spent every other day on the range with the 1911. I fell in love with that slab sided piece of iron. Because I was in the Signal Corp I was assigned an M-2 Carbine. The team I was assigned to was also issued a 50cal machine gun a crew served weapon. While I was stationed at Fort Richardson my CO was a gun nut. We would check out a case of 45 ammo and go to the range after normal work hours. It was called PT???? My CO connected up with the army pistol teams and allowed us to get better quality 45s. I would never be good enough to be on a pistol team but I did receive more training than the average solider
When you carry a weapon you take on an additional responsibility. If you think packing a gun is a joke that you are better off with out one..

So.. all the military marksmanship and qualification training is totally useless and a waste of time? Originally Posted by RedLeg505

I didn't see anyone post that statement or imply it. But I've not seen every post.

The initial problem (or distinction) is with regard to the natural environment into which the average CHL carrier will possess a weapon, the potential threat the carrier will face, and the limited response time. The average citizen (or even LE) shooting incident is 2-4 meters away with the other party moving toward you with a drawn or in the process of drawing a weapon. A normal person can traverse 7 meters in about 1.5 SECONDS. Your response must be instinctive, you don't have time to think about it. You don't have time to raise and point your weapon ... in fact that puts the weapon almost a meter closer to the attacking person and vulnerable to be plucked out of your hand or deflected away. There are usually innocent people around and walls that will not stop a round. Think about: restaurant, theater, mall, grocery store, gas station, parking lot, school.

Your extensive experience in handling firearms and your comfort level, not to mention the good habits of cleaning and servicing your weapons regularly, are all pluses. The mindset of military training (shooting techniques) is often the greatest obstacle to overcome ... as well as the belief instilled that one is "highly skilled" and a "marksman," which breeds complacency.

I don't know whether you are stupid or just a bad liar. Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

He's actually both. The substance of the discussion has exceeded his academic and experience level, so he responds like a child does when confronted with similar situations ... stupid, dumb, and failed attempts at being cute.

Finally a decent opinion post. Here is the question to go with it, how do you force people to get the proper training and NOT turn the entire process into a money making deal for the state. Can you grandfather people with military service or law enforcement experience? What about people who competitively shoot but have never served in either the military or LE? What about temperment. This is what they did in CT when I was there. To get a CCL you had to have a recommendation from a qualified pistol instructor, an interview with either a sheriff or police captain, and you paid $15 for a FBI background check. You laid down $30 and you got your CCL in less than two weeks. It didn't cost you a fortune, it didn't take the maximum amount of time, and you were not forced to go through training that you didn't need (if you are already competent).

Still, none of that is a magic bullet. You can still miss, you can still misread a situation, and you can still do something that is personally very bad at the spur of the moment. Just like a trained policeman.

I'll ask another question, why are this about an honest person wanting to carry for protection? Where is the angst over stopping some criminal from using a weapon to commit crimes? Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

I don't know whether you are stupid or just a bad liar. Where did you come up with this stuff? I have never said that a single afternoon class makes anyone ready for the responsibility. The first part of this thread is about the law and not the training if you didn't notice with your head stuck up your own ass so far. I posted that I approve of Kansas getting out of the way of a freedom but there anyone who chooses to carry should avail themselves of the necessary training. What an ass you are...

As for John Rambo, once again I have never claimed any special status or abilities that you yourself could not obtain (except for maybe telling the truth). Besides, Rambo died in the book. Shot in the head by Colonel Trautman.

You did get one thing right, don't fire if you not WILLING to fire. That is not the same thing as firing moron but you have to be willing. Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

You never said that? Seems you're ok with grandfathering people in, even if it's been 20 years since they've seen military service. Not forced to go through training you don't need. Of course who gets to determine if you are competent? The state I'm guessing.

That was a hypothetical question you idiot. You added the part of being out of the military for 20 years, I didn't. Who decides? In CT it was left to the NRA instructor who was going to put his or her name on the certificate. You could have just asked instead of humilating yourself again. I bet you even own a gimp suit don't you?

Of course who gets to determine if you are competent? The state I'm guessing. Originally Posted by WombRaider

"It depends."

you remind me of Forest playing ping pong by himself, how did that make him ready to play against someone who hits back? Originally Posted by bigcockpussylicker

Training eye-muscle coordination.

You see. You feel the direction in your muscles. Repetition.

Training helps, then maybe you won't pull your 357 and shoot a guy in the back when you mistaken it for a tazer.

Training helps, then maybe you won't pull your 357 and shoot a guy in the back when you mistaken it for a tazer. Originally Posted by i'va biggen

You talkin' to me son?

Training eye-muscle coordination.

You see. You feel the direction in your muscles. Repetition. Originally Posted by LexusLover

Is that what they call beating off at Shady Acres?

Orderly: Feel the repetition now, you old fuckers. Feel it in your muscle.

LL: I feel it, but I think I'd learn more if I tried it on you

Orderly: I told you that was only one time you sick fuck.

Training helps, then maybe you won't pull your 357 and shoot a guy in the back when you mistaken it for a tazer. Originally Posted by i'va biggen

Well, either it doesn't actually help.. or the NYC cops aren't trained very well, or perhaps the NYC cops don't know how to train properly?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1830007.html

9 bystanders shot.. 16 shots fired.. perp killed. Seems like the TYPE of training has a big impact on success in a shoot/don't shoot scenario.