As long as something is said or supports F-Flats views then it is a fact>>>>.....)))
He probably does not have many friends and this is his only form of social interaction is this forum...He probably is a loser that lives in his moms basement.
- WyldemanATX
- 08-07-2011, 11:58 PM
- 3mils-right
- 08-08-2011, 12:19 AM
Touché. I just can't resist fanning a flame I guess. I'll probably let it die now. It's gotten a bit old.
- F-Sharp
- 08-08-2011, 08:18 AM
Touché. I just can't resist fanning a flame I guess. I'll probably let it die now. It's gotten a bit old. Originally Posted by 3mils-rightYou ain't getting out of it that easy windbag. You claimed Obama is a socialist, but when confronted with some direct questions and given the opportunity to back your statement you instead take to writing six seperate posts of insults against me. Is this really what the right has resorted to? Nothing but completely unfounded opinion and soundbytes that have no basis in fact whatsoever? You're what I like to call the Fox News culture, so full of shit you can't see straight. In all honestly, there's plenty of things one can criticize Obama for, things that are actually true. Yet, you make a personal decision to criticize him based on something John McCain said in effort to smear him during an election. I bet you don't even know why McCain said it. You're pathetic.
Now, Joe the Plumber (hint?)...answer the questions or piss off and go find someone else to insult for calling you on your bullshit.
- DTorrchia
- 08-08-2011, 08:58 AM
F-Sharp, truly, what's the point of trying to debate with you. Only YOUR statistics are correct. Only YOUR graphs show the RIGHT data. It's laughable, really.
You say my stats on immigration proved YOUR point? I read everything I linked carefully. You may not believe it but I actually possess a brain, same as any other human being on this planet including YOU.
Dude, I know what the numbers said which is why I posted them. I can interpret statistics without your help, thank you though. SO, since YOU seem to have missed it, I followed up the first number of Latinos in the Federal System by pointing out that 46% of them were in for drug related offenses. So, you want to scream about people's facts just being flat out wrong? Well buddy, stop trying to twist the facts to fit your view point.
You tried to point out that 33% of the Hispanic inmate population in Travis County Jail matches the Hispanic population of 33% in Travis County. Hey Genius, the 2010 U.S. Census shows that Travis County comprised a White population of 69.3% yet the white inmate population in Travis County Jail is 33.2%. The same U.S. census shows Hispanics in Travis County comprise 33.5% and their inmate % In Travis County Jail is 32.6%.
So unless you're completely daft, that's almost TWICE the incarceration rates of whites by % when compared to their population rate in Travis County. Therefor, when I tried to explain to you that in many neighborhoods in Austin over HALF the burglary of vehicles, burglary of habitation etc where carried out by illegals, I wasn't pulling that number out of my butt. But keep thinking that you're wiping the floor with us or embarrassing us in public. You are the true definition of arrogant. You'll acknowledge on one hand that ALL data can be biased but then turn right around and blow your horn about how much you know because of the data you present. Woe to anyone that doesn't match your data and if they do, then you marginalize their data by accusing the data of coming from the "far right". Dude, I don't need you or anyone else to interpret simple numbers like the ones I posted above. And if it comes down to believing you or actual APD property crimes Detectives who work the crimes I've described and arrest said offenders daily, well buddy, you loose in that contest.
I'll agree with you on one thing. Obama isn't a Socialist. He's not smart enough for that. He's just a guy that was influenced from the start by a far left liberal mother, by the far left elitists at Harvard and his corrupt buddies in Chicago that he surrounded himself with and helped him run for office there. That doesn't make him a Socialist, he just had the misfortune to never have been around some enlightened Conservatives who could have set him on the right path.
Please feel free to review this link and challenge the accuracy as I'm sure you will.
Keep in mind the following took a SAMPLING of 55,000+ illegal aliens to compile the below listed Data. It's estimated that we have in 2011 somewhere near 12 million illegals in this country. Read the below report F-Sharp and then tell me how illegals and crime have nothing to do with one another.
From the above link:
http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html
Results: The briefing slides in enclosure I address each of our three questions. In summary, for our study population of 55,322 illegal aliens, we found that: * They were arrested at least a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien. Nearly all had more than 1 arrest. Thirty- eight percent (about 21,000) had between 2 and 5 arrests, 32 percent (about 18,000) had between 6 and 10 arrests, and 26 percent (about 15,000) had 11 or more arrests. Most of the arrests occurred after 1990. * They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses, averaging about 13 offenses per illegal alien. One arrest incident may include multiple offenses, a fact that explains why there are nearly one and half times more offenses than arrests.[Footnote 6] Almost all of these illegal aliens were arrested for more than 1 offense. Slightly more than half of the 55,322 illegal aliens had between 2 and 10 offenses. About 45 percent of all offenses were drug or immigration offenses. About 15 percent were property-related offenses such as burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and property damage. About 12 percent were for violent offenses such as murder, robbery, assault, and sex-related crimes. The balance was for such other offenses as traffic violations, including driving under the influence; fraud--including forgery and counterfeiting; weapons violations; and obstruction of justice. * Eighty percent of all arrests occurred in three states--California, Texas, and Arizona. Specifically, about 58 percent of all arrests occurred in California, 14 percent in Texas, and 8 percent in Arizona.
You say my stats on immigration proved YOUR point? I read everything I linked carefully. You may not believe it but I actually possess a brain, same as any other human being on this planet including YOU.
Dude, I know what the numbers said which is why I posted them. I can interpret statistics without your help, thank you though. SO, since YOU seem to have missed it, I followed up the first number of Latinos in the Federal System by pointing out that 46% of them were in for drug related offenses. So, you want to scream about people's facts just being flat out wrong? Well buddy, stop trying to twist the facts to fit your view point.
You tried to point out that 33% of the Hispanic inmate population in Travis County Jail matches the Hispanic population of 33% in Travis County. Hey Genius, the 2010 U.S. Census shows that Travis County comprised a White population of 69.3% yet the white inmate population in Travis County Jail is 33.2%. The same U.S. census shows Hispanics in Travis County comprise 33.5% and their inmate % In Travis County Jail is 32.6%.
So unless you're completely daft, that's almost TWICE the incarceration rates of whites by % when compared to their population rate in Travis County. Therefor, when I tried to explain to you that in many neighborhoods in Austin over HALF the burglary of vehicles, burglary of habitation etc where carried out by illegals, I wasn't pulling that number out of my butt. But keep thinking that you're wiping the floor with us or embarrassing us in public. You are the true definition of arrogant. You'll acknowledge on one hand that ALL data can be biased but then turn right around and blow your horn about how much you know because of the data you present. Woe to anyone that doesn't match your data and if they do, then you marginalize their data by accusing the data of coming from the "far right". Dude, I don't need you or anyone else to interpret simple numbers like the ones I posted above. And if it comes down to believing you or actual APD property crimes Detectives who work the crimes I've described and arrest said offenders daily, well buddy, you loose in that contest.
I'll agree with you on one thing. Obama isn't a Socialist. He's not smart enough for that. He's just a guy that was influenced from the start by a far left liberal mother, by the far left elitists at Harvard and his corrupt buddies in Chicago that he surrounded himself with and helped him run for office there. That doesn't make him a Socialist, he just had the misfortune to never have been around some enlightened Conservatives who could have set him on the right path.
Please feel free to review this link and challenge the accuracy as I'm sure you will.
Keep in mind the following took a SAMPLING of 55,000+ illegal aliens to compile the below listed Data. It's estimated that we have in 2011 somewhere near 12 million illegals in this country. Read the below report F-Sharp and then tell me how illegals and crime have nothing to do with one another.
From the above link:
http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html
Results: The briefing slides in enclosure I address each of our three questions. In summary, for our study population of 55,322 illegal aliens, we found that: * They were arrested at least a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien. Nearly all had more than 1 arrest. Thirty- eight percent (about 21,000) had between 2 and 5 arrests, 32 percent (about 18,000) had between 6 and 10 arrests, and 26 percent (about 15,000) had 11 or more arrests. Most of the arrests occurred after 1990. * They were arrested for a total of about 700,000 criminal offenses, averaging about 13 offenses per illegal alien. One arrest incident may include multiple offenses, a fact that explains why there are nearly one and half times more offenses than arrests.[Footnote 6] Almost all of these illegal aliens were arrested for more than 1 offense. Slightly more than half of the 55,322 illegal aliens had between 2 and 10 offenses. About 45 percent of all offenses were drug or immigration offenses. About 15 percent were property-related offenses such as burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and property damage. About 12 percent were for violent offenses such as murder, robbery, assault, and sex-related crimes. The balance was for such other offenses as traffic violations, including driving under the influence; fraud--including forgery and counterfeiting; weapons violations; and obstruction of justice. * Eighty percent of all arrests occurred in three states--California, Texas, and Arizona. Specifically, about 58 percent of all arrests occurred in California, 14 percent in Texas, and 8 percent in Arizona.
- Booth
- 08-08-2011, 10:14 AM
- DTorrchia
- 08-08-2011, 12:09 PM
So going by the above report F-Sharp, in 2003:
Number of convicted criminal aliens; Inmates incarcerated in federal prison on December 27, 2003: 46,063; Inmates incarcerated by state prisons and local jails and submitted to SCAAP for reimbursement[NOTE 1]: 262,105.
Now given that a sampling of 55,000 of these incarcerated illegal aliens showed that 15% of them were in for property related crimes, it can be reasoned by the numbers provided that in 2003 over 39,315 property crimes can be attributed to illegal aliens.
Now maybe 39,000 property crimes doesn't seem a lot to you for that given time period but to the victims of those crimes, I'm sure they'd prefer that the illegals who committed them had been kept out of our country and therefor prevented from carrying out said crimes.
But let's take it one step further. The study showed that over 12% of the illegal aliens were incarcerated in 2003 for VIOLENT crimes such as MURDER, ROBBERY, ASSAULT and SEXUAL CRIMES. It therefor stands to reason that for the time period evaluated, illegal aliens committed over 31,000 MURDERS, ROBBERIES, ASSAULTS and SEXUAL OFFENSES.
Again, the 262,105 illegal inmate population is only for state, county and local jails, and does not include the Federal Prison illegal aliens.
We all know that the number of illegal aliens has only gone UP since 2003. But even using those numbers, it's clear to any RATIONAL person that our Country could probably do WITHOUT 39,000 additional property crimes, 31,000 additional VIOLENT Crimes and the COST of incarcerating these illegals, feeding them, housing them, etc when they shouldn't even be IN our country to begin with.
Number of convicted criminal aliens; Inmates incarcerated in federal prison on December 27, 2003: 46,063; Inmates incarcerated by state prisons and local jails and submitted to SCAAP for reimbursement[NOTE 1]: 262,105.
Now given that a sampling of 55,000 of these incarcerated illegal aliens showed that 15% of them were in for property related crimes, it can be reasoned by the numbers provided that in 2003 over 39,315 property crimes can be attributed to illegal aliens.
Now maybe 39,000 property crimes doesn't seem a lot to you for that given time period but to the victims of those crimes, I'm sure they'd prefer that the illegals who committed them had been kept out of our country and therefor prevented from carrying out said crimes.
But let's take it one step further. The study showed that over 12% of the illegal aliens were incarcerated in 2003 for VIOLENT crimes such as MURDER, ROBBERY, ASSAULT and SEXUAL CRIMES. It therefor stands to reason that for the time period evaluated, illegal aliens committed over 31,000 MURDERS, ROBBERIES, ASSAULTS and SEXUAL OFFENSES.
Again, the 262,105 illegal inmate population is only for state, county and local jails, and does not include the Federal Prison illegal aliens.
We all know that the number of illegal aliens has only gone UP since 2003. But even using those numbers, it's clear to any RATIONAL person that our Country could probably do WITHOUT 39,000 additional property crimes, 31,000 additional VIOLENT Crimes and the COST of incarcerating these illegals, feeding them, housing them, etc when they shouldn't even be IN our country to begin with.
- WyldemanATX
- 08-08-2011, 12:30 PM
- WyldemanATX
- 08-08-2011, 12:36 PM
- 3mils-right
- 08-08-2011, 12:55 PM
Wylde, don't take it personal he called me a bigot too and then when I asked what made me racist he accused me of not knowing English. It's been my experience that when dealing with hard core liberals that they simply talk louder and longer and in circles. F is just confused and apparently believes everything on the Internet because it must all bs true. ~Shrug~ it must be, didn't Al Gore invent it?
- Billy_Saul
- 08-08-2011, 01:05 PM
BARACKAYLPSE NOW
DJIA $DJI -447.75
10,996.86 (-3.91%)
DJIA $DJI -447.75
10,996.86 (-3.91%)
- F-Sharp
- 08-08-2011, 01:31 PM
F-Sharp, truly, what's the point of trying to debate with you. Only YOUR statistics are correct. Only YOUR graphs show the RIGHT data. It's laughable, really. Originally Posted by DTorrchiaThey're not *my* statistics, I didn't write them. If you disagree with the data presented there's certainly nothing wrong with challenging it. You act like I make this shit up! The data I presented is straight from the Bureau of Prisons and the U.S Census Bureau. You want to question *their* data, by all means feel free. What's truly laughable is you doubting the source of this information and completely failing to present anything to challenge it.
The same U.S. census shows Hispanics in Travis County comprise 33.5% and their inmate % In Travis County Jail is 32.6%.So now you're changing your story and making a completely different argument. So what is it D? You stated that, "They commit crimes "triple their share" when compared to the overall Hispanic population in the U.S.". I proved they didn't, and now you change your story and want to comare them to the amount of crime commited by whites? Why don't you make up your mind already. Guess who makes up the largest percentage of the prison population in the U.S.? Blacks! You care to try and explain how the citizenship of African Americans has anything to do with the amount of crime they commit? You're argument just took a downward spriral to nowhere. And again, these figures reflect hispanic population, not illegal alien population. I will once again remind you that hispanic does not equal illegal, and that hispanics only represent a little better than half of the illegal population in the U.S.
So unless you're completely daft, that's almost TWICE the incarceration rates of whites by % when compared to their population rate in Travis County. Originally Posted by DTorrchia
Now, if you want to change you argument to comparing crimes committed by whites compared to various ethnic groups just let me know. I'll be happy to tear you a new asshole on that topic as well. Until then, try and stick to one position at a time. You might also give some thought to actually clarifying the position you're trying to defend cause I gotta tell ya, I'm starting to get confused here. Is this discussion still about illegal aliens?
Therefor, when I tried to explain to you that in many neighborhoods in Austin over HALF the burglary of vehicles, burglary of habitation etc where carried out by illegals, I wasn't pulling that number out of my butt. Originally Posted by DTorrchiaIf you weren't pulling it from your butt, then where *exactly* have you pulled it from? Cite your source of this information so we can all have a look at it.
Please feel free to review this link and challenge the accuracy as I'm sure you will.This report does nothing to support your position. Here's the crux of it:
Keep in mind the following took a SAMPLING of 55,000+ illegal aliens to compile the below listed Data. It's estimated that we have in 2011 somewhere near 12 million illegals in this country. Read the below report F-Sharp and then tell me how illegals and crime have nothing to do with one another.
From the above link:
http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05646r.html Originally Posted by DTorrchia
"To obtain information to answer these objectives, we identified aThe only thing this study reports is the rate of recidivism among a criminal subsection of illegal aliens. Roughly 2/10ths of one percent of our illegal population if my math's correct. If you want to make an argument that illegal aliens have a higher rate of recidivism than any other group of inmates then you're going to have to find a way to make that comparison. This report makes no comparison at all.
population of 55,322 aliens that the U.S. Immigration and Customs
Enforcement (ICE) in the Department of Homeland Security determined, based upon information in its immigration databases, had entered the country illegally and were still illegally in the country at the time of their incarceration in federal or state prison or local jail during fiscal year 2003."
Here's a few links to get you started if you insist on trying to make your case. Until then, please stop wasing my time with these strawman arguments and consider clarifying what it is your trying to prove here.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/...m-rates-remain
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/13...te-nationwide/
http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPa...ontentId=14835
- F-Sharp
- 08-08-2011, 01:46 PM
We all know that the number of illegal aliens has only gone UP since 2003. But even using those numbers, it's clear to any RATIONAL person that our Country could probably do WITHOUT 39,000 additional property crimes, 31,000 additional VIOLENT Crimes and the COST of incarcerating these illegals, feeding them, housing them, etc when they shouldn't even be IN our country to begin with. Originally Posted by DTorrchiaSo again, I have to ask you. What case are you trying to make here? That illegals commit crime? So do whites, asians and blacks. Tell us something we don't know.
According to the FBI stats for 2009, there were 9,320,971 property crimes committed in the United States. Hmmm...
39000 / 9,320,971 = 0.0041841134362504 (or 4/10ths of one percent for the math challenged folks around here.)
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_01.html
Don't get me wrong here D, I am not making any attempt to condone illegal immigration or the crimes they may or may not be committing, just questioning your logic and reasons for supporting the position that you do. You don't need to make up stories about illegals commiting more crime than anyone else to understand that this is a problem that needs to be dealt with at some point, but if you want to keep posting numbers I will keep challenging them. Believe me, I can play the stats and numbers game with you forever, and I happen to have a lot of background on this particular topic.
- F-Sharp
- 08-08-2011, 01:55 PM
BARACKAYLPSE NOWMore like the "Tea Party Express" to our new third world economy.
DJIA $DJI -447.75
10,996.86 (-3.91%) Originally Posted by Billy_Saul
If you do think it's Obama's fault, then tell me, would you prefer he had vetoed Boehner's last bill and let us default? How low do you think the market would be today if that happened? I'd also be curious to know what you think Obama's role in this was and what he should have done differently. Lastly, if you blame Obama for this, then you must believe that Congress and the Tea Party are not culpable and should not share any of the responsibility. True or false?
Stop with the right-wing Fox News propaganda bullshit for just one minute and for once give us an honest analysis of what you believe to be the root of the problem here.
- DTorrchia
- 08-08-2011, 01:58 PM
LOL, F-Sharp, it's clear now. I know EXACTLY where your numbers and my numbers came from. Don't tell me what the "crux" of the above report is. Deal with the numbers provided by the United States Government. 39,000 property crimes, 31,000 Violent crimes committed by Illegal Aliens that were incarcerated in 2003. As far as the percentages vs. the Population, dude are you REALLY that daft or are you just playing the role for my amusement? It is OBVIOUS that only a small percentage of illegal aliens are ever CAUGHT and PROSECUTED from the total number that commit the crimes. Why? Because it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to identify them UNLESS they are arrested and booked AGAIN. So please, don't play the naive one with me.
Illegal Alien brakes into home. First off, the chances of him getting caught are slim because no one knows him. But let's say by some miracle he is caught. He's taken to the jail where they ask for his ID. "I have none". Okay, what's your name? "Joe Gomez". He is then booked under Joe Gomez and for all practical purposes THAT is who he is as far as the Police and the Penal System are concerned.
After he gets out of prison, he commits 10 more burglaries. He leaves his prints behind and warrants are issued for "Joe Gomez". Except by now he's gotten ID under his real Mexican name, or another name, take your pic. If he's stopped for traffic or any minor offenses and gives a false name, he'll never be apprehended on those outstanding warrants. The only way he's linked is if he is taken into custody and fingerprinted and those prints are run through the Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System. So, THOUSANDS of illegals go years committing crimes before they are EVER caught and prosecuted. The statistics I provided don't take those into account but you and I BOTH know that it happens and not just once in awhile but more often than not. You said I didn't provide a source for the numbers in Austin....ONE MORE TIME since you may have ridden the short bus, AUSTIN PD PROPERTY CRIMES DETECTIVES. The guys who work the cases and have told me in person that in many sections of Austin, over half of the cases they work dealing with Burglary of Vehicles, Burglary of Habitation and Thefts are committed by Illegal Aliens. Now, I've broken it down as basic as I possibly can. If you still dispute these facts, from the Department of Homeland Security and from the Austin PD, then you're just talking to hear yourself talk and are obviously not interested in an honest debate.
Illegal Alien brakes into home. First off, the chances of him getting caught are slim because no one knows him. But let's say by some miracle he is caught. He's taken to the jail where they ask for his ID. "I have none". Okay, what's your name? "Joe Gomez". He is then booked under Joe Gomez and for all practical purposes THAT is who he is as far as the Police and the Penal System are concerned.
After he gets out of prison, he commits 10 more burglaries. He leaves his prints behind and warrants are issued for "Joe Gomez". Except by now he's gotten ID under his real Mexican name, or another name, take your pic. If he's stopped for traffic or any minor offenses and gives a false name, he'll never be apprehended on those outstanding warrants. The only way he's linked is if he is taken into custody and fingerprinted and those prints are run through the Integrated Automated Fingerprint Identification System. So, THOUSANDS of illegals go years committing crimes before they are EVER caught and prosecuted. The statistics I provided don't take those into account but you and I BOTH know that it happens and not just once in awhile but more often than not. You said I didn't provide a source for the numbers in Austin....ONE MORE TIME since you may have ridden the short bus, AUSTIN PD PROPERTY CRIMES DETECTIVES. The guys who work the cases and have told me in person that in many sections of Austin, over half of the cases they work dealing with Burglary of Vehicles, Burglary of Habitation and Thefts are committed by Illegal Aliens. Now, I've broken it down as basic as I possibly can. If you still dispute these facts, from the Department of Homeland Security and from the Austin PD, then you're just talking to hear yourself talk and are obviously not interested in an honest debate.
- Booth
- 08-08-2011, 04:04 PM