OLD HAMBONE IS STILL AROUND

TMFT, I actually attend these events and have probably attended at least 40 of them over the years through the different boards. Yes, I am still on the various invite lists, so you are sadly mistaken if you believe that I'm getting a kick out of the bust.
You are also mistaken in believing that I broke any of the event's rules. Yes, I arranged to spend some time with providers in attendance after the event and did so on most every occasion. BUT, (and this is a biggie) you seem to forget that escorting isn't illegal....I *could* be wrong about this...but I thinck not.

So tell ya' what, instead of riding CB's sack, mistakenly believing that I'm "piling on", and breaking my post down line-by-line, feel free to take it in its entirety and try and see some of the points I was trying to convey. The main one being that this bust/raid/pile-up wasn't a one-sided affair.

Both, the attendees who got pinched as well as the organizers have some culpability in this deal.

a) People got pinched by Elle.
b) and Elle was allowed into the event and allowed to "work the room" to get their pinch.

Both are screw-ups and both have different owners.

If you can't see that, well, sorry. I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

I am still waiting for someone, ANYONE, to post ANYTHING that would actually help in future socials

All the ones so quick to point a finger and jump on the bandwagon have yet to chime in as Tikkler asked and give anything or anyway to put on socials better.

And TMFT, you keep pointing out the obvious flaws in so many posts by the haters....and they keep falling on deaf ears. Originally Posted by CivilBarrister

CB, it's not that I'm "hating". You were one of the event coordinators, were you not? Well, like it or not, your chiming in kind of opens you up to the questioning and erroneously posting and not following up only compounds the situation and opens you up to even more questioning. I'm sure that most people would be willing to offer assistance/ helpful suggestions; myself included; but in order to do so, we kinda' need to understand what went wrong and where the in-place system broke down.

It makes it extremely difficult to offer ANY kind of help/suggestion when the story keeps changing.

You post on several different occasions that Elle slipped through by posing as a UTR. Hambone..err... THE Hambone, excuse me, posts that shortly after the bust, during the intelligence gathering process, the staff ordered him NOT to divulge any information to protect the fact they the knew what LE was doing... and how, after sifting through the gathered intelligence how he believed Elle gained access/entrance to the event and those beliefs ran parallel to yours.

Ck1942 comes in and says that you guys are wrong. That's not what happened."Does not matter what anyone has posted here or elsewhere regarding how LE managed to enter the venue. They did, and that's that." (I'm not even going to get into the shameless "plugs" for future events, which is really funny, nor am I going to get into his wanting DATA. The DATA lies in the arrest records).

Well, maybe it doesn't matter what anyone has posted, but it damned sure *should* matter that Elle was allowed to infiltrate the event and freely work the room to get their pinches. If *that* doesn't matter then we've learned nothing and we're all just setting ourselves up for another great big fucking pile-up.


With regard to the people arrested, it hasn't fallen upon deaf ears It's crystal fucking clear how they screwed-up and their story hasn't changed one bit; it remains the same.
How about shifting attention to any other screw-ups and how we can avoid any future ones.

You want suggestions? Okay. I'll give it a shot.

Let's say, for arguments sake that having Elle in attendance increases everyone's risk factor by what, 80% (?)...

How about trying to figure out how they got in and try to plug that gaping hole? That's probably a good place to start.

THE Hambone stated that the club's security was running the door for a while during the event.

Was this the weak link? Maybe not *the* weak link but definitely *a* weak link.

How about either working the door yourselves, maybe in shifts and definitely by people who are "in the know" and trusted. That might help; it damned-sure couldn't hurt.

I'm sure that I could come up with several more suggestions but it would help if you guys would get your stories straight. We can't help you if you don't help us.





______________________________ _

First, some facts and a very personal note.

(Personal) The enmity, griping and outright apparent hatred evidenced in several posts above are out of place for those interested in promoting the hobby, much less any fostering harmony on this or other boards. And as well noted, socials are not gonna stop.

Many unanswered questions about the Houston event and some may never be answered. In no particular order,

-- zero warrants issued -- including "search" (to the best of my knowledge)

-- zero arrests for drugs (based on arrest and court records)

-- zero convictions for any arrests made in connection with the bust (excepting, of course, anyone taken down on previously outstanding warrants -- one person, to the best of my knowledge)

-- five, possibly six DISMISSALS so far (personal knowledge)

-- whatever "john doe" or "jane doe" warrants were alluded to by the vice officer on TV have never been, to the best of my knowledge, executed or served.

We are now 133 days following the event, so it should be no surprise to anyone here that whatever "investigation" went on prior to the bust was basically fruitless based on court results to-date, except that 12 persons out of 130 were transported. Each of them has his/her own issues, data, recollections and impressions. Some are still hobbying, some are not.

Exactly why, how and what happened to bring the cops in may never be fully figured out. The organizers learned a lot and are continuing to learn. We owe no explanations nor excuses to anyone who was not present at the event, arrested or not. Anyone who has positive suggestions on the invitation and venue staging process should let me know those privately. We'll consider them all in due course.

As for December 2009, we believe we have determined the breach(s) and have addressed those issues in preparing for future events.

fwiw, the Houston luncheon event in January 2010 was (pardon the pun) uneventful.

Any event I organize is not sponsored by any review boards, and we certainly appreciate any bandwidth we are allowed to use to announce (not promote) the events.

Obviously, there is risk in the hobby, and some risk attaches to any event. The rules are very clear, however:

All events are only a "meet & greet" -- and all who attend are expected to follow the rules below. If you attend, it is presumed you have read the rules and have agreed to follow them. Those who don't will not be invited to future events.

No illegal activities. That means no play for pay, no drugs, absolutely nothing that can compromise the security of our members, guests and our host venue. If you don't understand the rules, please ask ck1942 to explain.

For the security of all involved - no cameras; no uninvited/unsponsored guests; no haggling over services, etc. No recruiting for anything and no promoting of any web sites.

Please respect all attending by no inappropriate touching and by not disclosing their presence to others on or off any board.

TMFT=DATO of CB Originally Posted by carkido45

I understand... this is obviously a cry for help ... you're so deeply hurt by your lack of friends/attention and your feelings of isolation that you're lashing out like a wounded animal. Please seek professional before you do yourself more harm.

Just so you know... I realize name calling is just your desperate attempt to garner attention and I generally ignore it. But , you should realize that the mods may not be as tolerant as I am. So until you self destruct off yet another board.. have a nice day.

You are also mistaken in believing that I broke any of the event's rules. Yes, I arranged to spend some time with providers in attendance after the event and did so on most every occasion. Originally Posted by SofaKingFun

Didn't you just contradict yourself?

The event rules do not prohibit folks exchanging contact data, and as SFK noted, some folks might make a more immediate contact than do others.

They don't need my help, they've both been around a long time. Folks know them.

I just don't like to see folks ganged up on thats all. It's a Texas thang.

Soooo... you admit you have no interest in contibuting anything constructive.... Originally Posted by ThatManFromTexas

You have only attempted to stifle this discussion when you admittingly have no interest in contributing anything of value either. If they don't need your help, then that is your clue.

TMFT=DATO of CB Originally Posted by carkido45

carkido chill out with that crap, would ya? We can have a productive discussion here without adding that kind of nonsense, so cut it out please sir.

St. C

You have only attempted to stifle this discussion when you admittingly have no interest in contributing anything of value either. If they don't need your help, then that is your clue. Originally Posted by Merlin

I think the organizers handled security as well as could be expected of them and a lot of folks are taking cheap shots at them. You can be a part of the solution or a part of the problem... your call.

I think the organizers handled security as well as could be expected of them and a lot of folks are taking cheap shots at them. You can be a part of the solution or a part of the problem... your call. Originally Posted by ThatManFromTexas

Good advice for you to follow as well. Now if asking questions is taking a cheap shot, then I guess I am guilty if that is your definition of a cheap shot. The major players have conflicting stories of what happened. Maybe that doesn't interest you.

Welcome back Hammy!

carkido chill out with that crap, would ya? We can have a productive discussion here without adding that kind of nonsense, so cut it out please sir.

St. C Originally Posted by St.Christopher

I apologize CB and TMFT.
I do hope no one get's in trouble at any social but things happen and there is a risk outing yourself.

I was at the social a few years ago that was put on at a BIZ that was "closed" to the outside public. There were MANY "rumors" of LE being there too...and that "social" was much LESS "secure" than the December one. This time, the UC's were DETERMINED to make "something happen". All that MONEY spent on the raid had to net SOMETHING. AND,, that "something" seems to have been ONE person deported....(if that REALLY happened). Originally Posted by ratboy jam

hear, hear. When they're determined to show "something" for all the time and money invested in the project, they will find something... and believe me when I say that even if they couldn't have found anybody to agree on $75 BJs, they'd have lined up everybody to administer sobriety tests, and then they would have hauled off everybody who blew above the legal limit. This is exactly what happened when they brought 40 undercovers to an after hours club they stalked for 2 months even though no undercover was able to ever get a mixed drink OR buy drugs at the club. Still they happilly hauled off drunks and charged them for public intoxications.

Good advice for you to follow as well. Now if asking questions is taking a cheat shot, then I guess I am guilty if that is your definition of a cheat shot. The major players have conflicting stories of what happened. Maybe that doesn't interest you. Originally Posted by Merlin

Everyone involved has given their take on what happened... well, except for LE and they're not talking. So, unless new information becomes available, continuing to ask the same questions is pointless.

The people who organized the social have stated they would be open to any legitimate , constructive suggestions for improvement. Now that would be productive.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

The people who organized the social have stated they would be open to any legitimate , constructive suggestions for improvement. Now that would be productive. Originally Posted by ThatManFromTexas

They can't seem to agree as of yet as to what happened. Have you offered any improvements yet? Other than criticizing anyone who dares to speak against the very people who you say don't need anyone's help.

Damn, this shit never stops repeating itself!

They can't seem to agree as of yet as to what happened.

Then why keep asking? No one knows for sure except LE... maybe you should ak them...

Have you offered any improvements yet?

I think they did as well as could be expected of anyone, so no, I haven't . But then again I don't spend all day demanding a public confession from them either.

Other than criticizing anyone who dares to speak against the very people who you say don't need anyone's help

I said they didn't need my help defending themselves. Their reputations remain intact.

You are free to express your opinion on this board just like everyone else. But the board does have various rules of decorum.
. Originally Posted by Merlin

Merlin... have a really nice day.