When people are allowed to say idiotic things unchallenged

'Definitely also' is a way too much of a generalization. The Nazis also killed millions of Communist (read up on the Marxist Jews/Bavaria), liberals, gays, misfits, and pretty much anyone that didn't stand up to the Aryan ideal. I don't dispute the religious undertones, but to say any one knowingly went along with a mass extinction is (re-Catholics) is a bit strong. By that standard we can blame all Germans (present withstanding) for the Holocaust as well. Originally Posted by Sa_artman

good point here as well, i concur. You make better points than i made so i oblige. Thanks for your input. Its always good to learn something and broaden my horizon :-)

lets not forget that scientists who did not support their ideology would have been put in concentration camps, right? The Nazi Scientists btw had a hard time getting a job afterwards without changing names and such :-) Originally Posted by ninasastri

Unless your name was Wernher von Braun, or he was listed as a reference on your résumé. LOL

So there was not really room for scientific "BIAS" like it usually is. That is one of the reason why at some universities there is a quote standing that "science is free" and not to be motivated by politics , religions and such. Originally Posted by ninasastri

It never was, and it never will be. Copernicus worked for the Church. That is why he waited until he was dying before he published his observations and discoveries. Science has to have benefactors. The religious and political beliefs of the benefactors has an impact on what science will be funded and advanced. Ask Galileo. The Medici abandoned him to stay safe with the Church. Ask NASA: Obama cut them off a few weeks ago.

Plus , But as long as you bring arguments and discuss in scientific matters you can do research on whether there is a superiour race or not :-). Its just you won`t ever find evidence that is. Neither did the Nazis. Originally Posted by ninasastri

I agree.

dp

Unless your name was Wernher von Braun, or he was listed as a reference on your résumé. LOL
Originally Posted by I B Hankering

youre such a meanie.....;-)) lol......other than that i love discussions with you. you bring great points and its a pleasure to have you here , really! you broaden my horizon. thanks!

It never was, and it never will be. Copernicus worked for the Church. That is why he waited until he was dying before he published his observations and discoveries. Science has to have benefactors. The religious and political beliefs of the benefactors has an impact on what science will be funded and advanced. Ask Galileo. The Medici abandoned him to stay safe with the Church. Ask NASA: Obama cut them off a few weeks ago. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

true too. That was my point actually. there is a huge scientific bias on what will be and what won´t be researched on. Funding to say the least. which brings back to the religious doctrines and stuff. you`re right .

Lets stay on topic folks

Lets stay on topic folks Originally Posted by mojojo213

LMAO

LMAO Originally Posted by discreetgent

And that's a Houston mod telling us to stay on topic.

And that's a Houston mod telling us to stay on topic. Originally Posted by Sa_artman

DED was too busy?

I am wating or DarthMaul, St.Mateo, SP Hunter to make an appearance as well, must be something in the water there (or is it cabin fever from the snow?)

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Racism and bigotry is vile and disgusting - it has no place on D & T Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

WTF are you talking about! First science and now this statement. Please do some research before spouting off accusatory statements. Here is a starting point for your first lesson on this subject.

http://www.slate.com/id/2088417/

I have completely given up on you ever understanding science. The non-dogma part anyway. You have sunken to a new low in calling a person racist without just cause. Please refrain from further discussions on my threads and I promise to stay out of the "Look at my Pictures'' threads you seem to relish in.

http://www.slate.com/id/2088417/


1) Jews should admit that some of their forefathers probably helped get Jesus killed. The four Gospels say Jewish priests demanded Jesus' crucifixion. For me, the most interesting account is the Gospel of Mark. Scholars now believe that the Gospels of Matthew and Luke, and possibly John, were based in part on Mark or on the same source that Mark used. Mark's Gospel is thought to have been written before the others, circa A.D. 70,* and, perhaps because it was written within a generation after Jesus' death, is widely considered freer of ahistorical embellishments. Yet Mark clearly says:

But the chief priests stirred up the crowd to have him release for them Barab'bas instead.
And Pilate again said to them, "Then what shall I do with the man whom you call the King of the Jews?"
And they cried out again, "Crucify him."
And Pilate said to them, "Why, what evil has he done?" But they shouted all the more, "Crucify him." Chapter 15: 11-15


The complexity of that debate notwithstanding, it is clear that the Crucifixion and Resurrection are central to the faith. While the Crucifixion in itself wasn't a good thing, it was, according to much Christian doctrine, an entirely necessary and pre-ordained thing. Without it, Christianity as we know it wouldn't exist.
So, really the answer to the question "Who killed Jesus?" should be: Who cares? Theologically, the answer is irrelevant, which means Christians can stop blaming Jews and Jews can stop being defensive. And people of both faiths can get back to disagreeing about more important things like whether you get more presents at Hanukkah or Christmas.

deleted.

WTF are you talking about! First science and now this statement. Please do some research before spouting off accusatory statements. Here is a starting point for your first lesson on this subject.

http://www.slate.com/id/2088417/

I have completely given up on you ever understanding science. The non-dogma part anyway. You have sunken to a new low in calling a person racist without just cause. Please refrain from further discussions on my threads and I promise to stay out of the "Look at my Pictures'' threads you seem to relish in.

http://www.slate.com/id/2088417/


1) Jews should admit that some of their forefathers probably helped get Jesus killed. The four Gospels say Jewish priests demanded Jesus' crucifixion. For me, the most interesting account is the Gospel of Mark. Scholars now believe that the Gospels of Matthew and Luke, and possibly John, were based in part on Mark or on the same source that Mark used. Mark's Gospel is thought to have been written before the others, circa A.D. 70,* and, perhaps because it was written within a generation after Jesus' death, is widely considered freer of ahistorical embellishments. Yet Mark clearly says:

But the chief priests stirred up the crowd to have him release for them Barab'bas instead.
And Pilate again said to them, "Then what shall I do with the man whom you call the King of the Jews?"
And they cried out again, "Crucify him."
And Pilate said to them, "Why, what evil has he done?" But they shouted all the more, "Crucify him." Chapter 15: 11-15


The complexity of that debate notwithstanding, it is clear that the Crucifixion and Resurrection are central to the faith. While the Crucifixion in itself wasn't a good thing, it was, according to much Christian doctrine, an entirely necessary and pre-ordained thing. Without it, Christianity as we know it wouldn't exist.
So, really the answer to the question "Who killed Jesus?" should be: Who cares? Theologically, the answer is irrelevant, which means Christians can stop blaming Jews and Jews can stop being defensive. And people of both faiths can get back to disagreeing about more important things like whether you get more presents at Hanukkah or Christmas.

Originally Posted by WTF

That is a great research! WTF you will always be my ATF ;-)) i think when i am in your city i will have to book you for your time :-) (blink)

Can we not have honest discussions without all the drama?

I would love to see a thread end where we all learnt something, one where we ALL admit that we may have gotten something wrong.

That is the biggest problem I see in these discussions....one side will never admit to getting something wrong. They never apologize. All they are looking to do is to twist what another says and try and get them points. Exact same thing they did on another board., Enough of that.


We all bring a piece to the puzzle with information, even if it is wrong information, I have learnt that many folks do not understand that science is not dogmatic, not just Lauren. I would have never learnt that without Lauren saying what she did. So for that I give thanks. It spurned this threads, now we are conversing in another subject we all apparently are not that versed in. Jesus. (I wasn't there, not sure about some of you old fuc'ers!) A interesting topic.....can we all maintain cooler heads and have an honest discussion without all the BS?

And I offer this fig leaf to Lauren, quit trying to be right all the time, admit when you are wrong and move on, there is no shame in being wrong. If there were nina and I would have quit posting long ago.HaHA I have noticed that most all other posters are actually trying to discuss serious subject matter without playing GOTCHA crappalo. Try it for once, I promise you will come to like it and there will be much more peace in the valley. Ok sorry for the long windedness folks but sometimes you just gotta say enough!
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I agree...Most of us have all been guilty at some point of spouting off at the mouth, ( I know I do! ), and lately I have been trying to be better....I realize we all have differences in our opinions, but sometimes we just need to agree to disagree and move on without all the drama and last words....Threads in here seem to get escalated sooooo quickly and I really hate that because there are some really good discussions that could be had....Ok that's all I'm saying about this for now...

Peace V