Rush Limbaugh acts like a prick, woman recieves call from Obama

Do you know that insurance benefits are actually income? Yes but not taxed as income.

But treated as an expense by large co. Yes

So we all pay for that fuc'd up law. Only in the sense that the income is tax free.

If you are self employed you do not get that benefit. True, but that should be the issue. Health insurance cost should be taxed or not taxed equally to everyone.

Just like when anybody gets a tax break....we all pay more, or in theory should.

So this BS about not wanting to pay for others health insurance is way more nuanced than we are all letting on. McCain had it right in 2008 on this issue. Originally Posted by WTF

I agree with what you are saying but my point is more that using insurance to pay for routine medical costs is actually driving the cost of health care up. In spite of that the idiots in Congress and the white House are forcing the problem to be the solution. It will not work and health care costs will increase. That will inevitably lead to rationing to control the costs.

I'm not sure to be fair why everyone isn't on board with universal healthcare in the States. Its not as if a country as wealthy as yours will have the issues that we do back in the UK. I can't seem to get me head around the hold up really. If the wealthy want immediate attention they will simply opt for a more expensive private route. We do have some issues with NHS back in "Jolly Ole" but at least all our citizens are getting equal healthcare regardless of income. Here in the States your entire system is based on capitalism which I'd imagine would result in some sort of compromise between what we have in Britain and what you lot will have in the coming years. In fact, I'd imagine in some way it may well be a wee bit better. We have quite long wait times for medical procedures in England currently which is one thing I doubt will ever be the case in America. And, honestly it shouldn't be with the wealth you Yanks have. Actually, the Tories wanted to move the NHS to a more "capitalist" style of universal healthcare and it got shot down in Parliament thankfully. Right. I'll stop before I get torched by some rightwing nutter mentalist.

The problem is that capitalism is a force that continually improves a product and lowers costs. If you take that out of the equation the way insurance does or national health care would you will end up with high prices and lower quality service. There are ways of supporting the needy that do not require the government to control healthcare for all.

Laz:

Yea, mate that's what you have currently. As an individual in the MDical profession hint, hint...I can attempt to put my own spin on it as far as it goes with your healthcare. The problem is resulting in many ways from the uninsured taking trips to the ER because that is the only way they can get treated due to their financial situation. That in itself is crippling your healthcare system. Or, I should say "OUR" healthcare system as I am now a citizen of this country. Poor folks will never pay back the cost of their respective ER visits because they don't have the means. Plus many of these individuals have poor lifestyles(drug addicts, smokers, obesity or other issues, etc...) which results in further deteriation of their condition even after treatment. So, IMO what this country needs is socialized medicine but with some sort of cut off point. The buck must stop somewhere! Why give a smoker new lungs if they aren't going to adhere to a smoke free lifestyle? Endless procedures with no success rate is a major issue with the state of this countries healthcare. Obviously, I was only giving a couple of examples of the cost and benefit aspect pertaining to those in this country who are both poor off financial along with poor lifestyle habits. Thus, resulting in endless strain on the healthcare industry. Personally, as much as I am for universal healthcare in America I'm not sure you lot could make it work. America is a capitalistic culture. It may simply not be workable. And, I'd go on to say that is why this administration is force feeding you socialized medicine. Right, where was I? Erm, I think if you as citizens can put up with a wee bit of unrest in the new healthcare plan in the "short-term" years down the road you'll in many ways have what we in Britain wish we had now. *As a nwbie to this forum and a newbie to Oklahoma I realize this post shall undoubtedly get a load of negative banter. I respect everyone's views and thoughts. In saying that let the flaming begin;-) Cheers!

The current health care plan is tied up in the courts. I doubt, and hopefully, it will never see the light of day. There are a million ways to implement basic healthcare that could take immediate effect.

Make doctors and anyone with a state license do pro bono work.

Institute neighborhood clinics and in schools for basic, primary care.

Psychological / Psychiatric care for those that need it, and stop treating mental illness like you would a cold.

Take everyday medicine to the poor instead of depending on the poor, illegal, uneducated to come in for basic health care they can't afford.

Eliminate heroic end-of-life care.

Required exercise in school.

Sliding scale for REAL single payer healthcare. Not this nonsense of everybody pays or gets taxed unless you make less than $14,400.

Improve the diets in schools.

Tax tobacco products out of reach.

And ultimately we need to take a decision whether health care is a right. And if it is a right does the common man deserve the exact same health care as Bill Gates. I can tell you when it gets down to making that decision it will be yes - if he can pay for it.

Olivia I agree that a simgle payer plan should have been implemented.

Yes or no: Do you think insurance benefits are handouts?

Yes or no. Originally Posted by Doove

Employee benefit packages are defined and offered by the employer to each prospective employee when the employee is hired. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Since you find it impossible to answer the question, let me rephrase.

When you pick up a prescription and it's paid for by your health insurance, do you consider that a hand out?

Yes or no?

Simple question.

Laz:

Yea, mate that's what you have currently. As an individual in the MDical profession hint, hint...I can attempt to put my own spin on it as far as it goes with your healthcare. The problem is resulting in many ways from the uninsured taking trips to the ER because that is the only way they can get treated due to their financial situation. That in itself is crippling your healthcare system. Or, I should say "OUR" healthcare system as I am now a citizen of this country. Poor folks will never pay back the cost of their respective ER visits because they don't have the means. Plus many of these individuals have poor lifestyles(drug addicts, smokers, obesity or other issues, etc...) which results in further deteriation of their condition even after treatment. So, IMO what this country needs is socialized medicine but with some sort of cut off point. The buck must stop somewhere! Why give a smoker new lungs if they aren't going to adhere to a smoke free lifestyle? Endless procedures with no success rate is a major issue with the state of this countries healthcare. Obviously, I was only giving a couple of examples of the cost and benefit aspect pertaining to those in this country who are both poor off financial along with poor lifestyle habits. Thus, resulting in endless strain on the healthcare industry. Personally, as much as I am for universal healthcare in America I'm not sure you lot could make it work. America is a capitalistic culture. It may simply not be workable. And, I'd go on to say that is why this administration is force feeding you socialized medicine. Right, where was I? Erm, I think if you as citizens can put up with a wee bit of unrest in the new healthcare plan in the "short-term" years down the road you'll in many ways have what we in Britain wish we had now. *As a nwbie to this forum and a newbie to Oklahoma I realize this post shall undoubtedly get a load of negative banter. I respect everyone's views and thoughts. In saying that let the flaming begin;-) Cheers! Originally Posted by liberaldevil

The problems you identify here are for those without insurance or money. We have not made any serious effort to address cost effective solutions for them. Stop treating them at ER's for routine care. Send them to clinics that can provide the services cheaper. Nurse practitioners or PA's can handle the vast majority of those cases. Require them to perform community service to pay for their care if they are physically able. Limit what care will be provided. Yes, ration care that has an extraordinary cost associated to it. I agree it is stupid to expect taxpayers to pay for a lung transplant for a smoker. Why spend a million dollars to extend someones life a short time.

Everyone else can pay for their services and competition will drive innovation and lower costs. Those things will also benefit the poor in the long run.

Olivia said: Make doctors and anyone with a state license do pro bono work.

*Okay, good fucking luck with that one. There is no bloody way that will happen in this country. Sorry, but it barely works in Britain. And, we consider ourselves a load of "do-gooders". Try telling that to the majority of new medical students! Sadly, far too many medical students are in medicine for money rather than the "do-good" aspect.

Laz said: Require them to perform community service to pay for their care if they are physically able.

*Again, not a bloody chance in Zeus's arse hole that would ever work. How would you enforce such an idea? If that was in place you'd have a dodgy prison state.

Since you find it impossible to answer the question, let me rephrase.

When you pick up a prescription and it's paid for by your health insurance, do you consider that a hand out?

Yes or no?

Simple question. Originally Posted by Doove

If youre looking for a simple yes or no answer from IB it wont happen ... but rest assured your question will be answered with another question.

Since you find it impossible to answer the question, let me rephrase.

When you pick up a prescription and it's paid for by your health insurance, do you consider that a hand out?

Yes or no?

Simple question. Originally Posted by Doove

No.

If youre looking for a simple yes or no answer from IB it wont happen ... but rest assured your question will be answered with another question. Originally Posted by CJ7

Caught you in another lie. You are too predictable, CBJ7.

based on my personal experience


No.

Dress it up however you want. In the final analysis that is exactly what it is: expecting something for nothing. And if you believe that is right, then you are a loser. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

When you pick up a prescription and it's paid for by your health insurance, do you consider that a hand out?

Yes or no? Originally Posted by Doove

No. Originally Posted by I B Hankering

True, but that should be the issue. Health insurance cost should be taxed or not taxed equally to everyone.
. Originally Posted by Laz

Agreed.

I agree with what you are saying but my point is more that using insurance to pay for routine medical costs is actually driving the cost of health care up. In spite of that the idiots in Congress and the white House are forcing the problem to be the solution. It will not work and health care costs will increase. That will inevitably lead to rationing to control the costs. Originally Posted by Laz

The problem is the system we have now. We still pay for folks that do not have proper health insurance.

We pay in the form of free health care at country hospitals.

For instance if a woman get preggo because she can not afford say birth control. We then pay for her pregnancy, the birth of the child and any follow up expenses.

Many contend that the birth control is way cheaper in the long run.

That is what people do not take into consideration.

So the question then becomes...do you not want to pay for birth control or do you not want to pay for all the results that not paying for birth control results?

Now then we might want to take a look at the whole system but to frame this debate into snap shots instead of a whole movie distorts the real problem(s) IMHO.