Please list/mention Obama's Accomplishments

If he lets you know a time and place let me know I don't want to miss that. My money is on DTorrchia. Originally Posted by Wyldeman30

hmm i don't know. If FSharp does to DTorrchia what Obama has done to the economy, I'll have to put my money on FSharp. DTorrchia's ass might be bloodied and bruised for a long time.

Aww, what's the matter D? You really such a sore loser? Let's see, you've accused me of misquoting you here, accused me of lying here, and flat out called me a liar here and now you've got your panties all in a bunch for a "shut the fuck up"? What the hell do you expect? Get over yourself internet tough guy and stop deflecting from the real debate here.

I'm the "internet tough guy" but when I offered to meet up, you crack a lame joke? Ahmm, yeah ok!

No one's misquoted you and nothing you've stated has even been taken out of context by me. Lucky for you, your posts are right here for everyone to see for themselves. Here they are again in case you missed it the last time, and I'm even adding the entire paragraph to save myself the problem of defending myself from your accusations that I've misquoted you and starting in with the "liar" talk again.

"What part of those statistics DON'T you understand F-Sharp. They commit crimes "triple their share" when compared to the overall Hispanic population in the U.S."

http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?...81#post1538781

"Really? Tell you what, put in a FOIA request to Austin PD asking them to release stats on how many crimes in Austin are committed annually by illegal immigrants. Care to know what you'll get? A refusal. That's right, an outright refusal to comply with the FOIA. Why? Because the Federal Government tells them not to release that info. Then approach any Austin PD Detective that works property crimes and ask them how many of the property crimes in Austin are committed by illegal aliens. You'll quickly discover that depending on the location and type of crime, many times over HALF of these crimes, including burglary of vehicle, burglary of habitation, burglary of business, etc are committed by illegal immigrants in our city."

http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?...post1535005%29

And you proved me wrong HOW with the above statement? I even took the liberty of changing the color on part of my quote you used so even a blind, mentally challenged guy like you can see it.
I feel for you though F-Dumb, so I'll break it down to Kindergarten level for you.
When we're talking crime in the city of AUSTIN, in certain parts of the city, Illegals account for over HALF the property crimes such as Burglary of Vehicle, burglary of habitation etc. I've said that all along and every link you put up, I'll be glad to highlight my answer in red so you'll be able to find it. Since you seem to have trouble locating my relevant answers.



As I've stated a few times before, your argument keeps changing. Every single time I prove you wrong, you change your argument just enough to not look like a complete ass and make me start all over again. It's seriously getting old, but I can play this game with you from now until the end of time. Case in point, you've now done it again. Let's see...you've now gone from the overall hispanic population, to Austin, to parts of Austin, and now you've managed to skip all the way back to Arizona and Los Angeles gangs.

Dimwit, we were discussing varied things in relation to the Illegal Aliens. Tell you what, to make it easy for you, since you seem to be whining about not keeping up on what we're talking about, let's keep it simple. We're talking about Illegal Aliens! In our discussion we covered their crime, cost to the U.S. government through various services and benefits provided etc. Just tell me which subject in particular you're confused about since I'm skipping around too much for you.



Anyone else see a pattern here? I mean seriously D, there's nothing wrong with being wrong now and again and there's no reason to go changing your argument so dramatically as to try and cover up that fact. Just consider it a learning experience and move on.

As for Arizona all I can say is well, DUH! Let's see, border state trying desperately to convince everyone of the illegal alien boogeyman in an effort to support a racist political agenda? No one here is doubting that you're going to see some skewed figures there, especially given that 80% of ALL alien arrests take place in California, Arizona, and Texas.

So now the Arizona Dpt of Corrections is lying? Is that what you're implying here F-Dumb?? You mentioned "racist agenda and skewed figures" so it sure sounds to me as if you're implying that the Department of Corrections is lying about how many illegals they have locked up. For the record, we've already discussed the SCAAP reimbursement program. So if Arizona was lying about the number of illegals it has in it's prison system, they would be defrauding the Federal Government and I'm sure Obama and Holder would have jumped all over that by now.

Back in 2004 before all this bullshit started that 14.8% figure you gave was only 11%. You also have to consider that illegals have left Arizona en masse since that time. In fact, their numbers went from 560,000 to about 375,000 in just the last three years. It's pretty easy to see how a few hundred thousand people migrating out of that place is going to skew numbers like you've posted. Those folks currently doing time in Arizona prisons didn't just show up there recently.

No no no, my slimy little friend. You don't get to worm out of this THAT easy. Now you want to say the 2010 numbers are off because illegals have left Arizona?? Nice try but let's just put an end to THAT charade!
In 2004, (in other words, BEFORE your mass exodus of Illegals from Arizona F-Dumb)In Arizona, 11.1 percent of the prison population was undocumented, compared with 7 percent of the overall state population

12.4 percent of California prisoners were illegal immigrants, as compared with an estimated 6.9 percent of the state population.

. In Texas, the percentage was also slightly higher in the prisons than it was statewide.

Oh, wait, what's THIS? You mean in Texas, California and Arizona, illegals are incarcerated at numbers much higher than their general population within the state?? Could it BE? You mean, they may actually be committing MORE crimes??!!!! Blasphemy!!

So let's see.......
In this post you tried to first blame the numbers on:
1. Arizona being racist and deceitful

2. A mass exodus of illegals from Arizona therefor "skewing" the numbers reported in 2010 by the Arizona Department of Corrections


and as any intelligent reader can see, you my little dimwitted friend are simply WRONG! It had nothing to do with the mass exodus because as far back as 2004 the numbers already showed that illegals were committing a DISPROPORTIONATE number of crimes compared to their population in Texas, California and Arizona. Since Austin is still considered a part of Texas, I think we can finally put this pony to bed now.


But how is that relavent to the discussion? Who the fuck cares, no one here ever doubted or questioned it.

It's relevant because it shows that when it comes to certain crimes, Illegals DO commit certain crimes at 3 times or more their population percentage within our Country, a number you tried so hard to ridicule me for.
And, as I pointed out above, even if we use YOUR numbers (before the "mass exodus of illegals from Arizona), the data showed that the undocumented accounted for 40% of all the prisoners serving time in Arizona state prisons for kidnapping; 24% of those serving time for drug charges; and 13 percent of those serving time for murder.
So illegals accounted for 40% of all the prisoners serving time for kidnapping, 24% for drug trafficking and 13% for Murder compared to their "pre-exodus" general population of 11%.
Are you disputing that this is not a disproportionate percentage???
In a previous post I had already conceded to you that the numbers in border states would be higher than the rest of the country. Last I checked Texas was a border state. Now you want to say the numbers are skewed because it's ARIZONA??? Last time I checked, Arizona was still part of the United States, as is Texas, as is California ALL of which show a disproportionate number of crimes committed by illegals when compared to their population. But let me guess, despite all the above statistics showing that illegals commit a disproportionate number of crimes in TEXAS, Arizona and California, you're now going to tell me it doesn't happen in AUSTIN?!!
Even a slow witted liberal such as yourself should see it's time to give it up!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...#ixzz1VQdDI5op

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...n6442729.shtml

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/bord...450866afd.html

As for gangs, there's about 900,000 estimated gang members nationwide. 18th Street and MS13 are indeed very well-know gangs in my home state consisting mostly of illegals. Anyone in my old neighborhood knows them well. So, their membership according to your post consists of "30,000 - 50,000", so let's just call it 40,000. And again, according to your link 80% of them are estimated to be illegals.

40,000 * .8 = 32000

as for MS13, 8000 - 10000, let's call it 9000 @ 90% guesstimate illegal membership.

9000 * .9 = 8100

32000 + 8100 = 40100

40100/900000 = 4.4%

Considering those two are by far the largest known and the rest of the numbers are negligible, it's fair to say that the estimated gang membership in the U.S. that are illegals is probably around 5% or so.

Stop right there! How did you come up with "the rest of the numbers are negligible" and then simply pull the 5% out of your ass? How does THAT work? Ok, it's time for a gang class/statistics lesson. The rest of the numbers are anything BUT negligible!
Let's just take a look at some other gangs you conveniently left out:
1. Mexican Mafia
2. Texas Syndicate
3. Latin Kings
4. Tango Blast
5. Nortenos
6. Surenos.........
.......Oh hell, I'm getting tired of typing so let's cut to the chase....in 2007 there were approximately 800,000 active gang members known to Law Enforcement (that's KNOWN, many more haven't come to LE's attention yet) out of that 800,000 approximately 47-50% are Hispanic gang members.
And you want to make us believe that out of the 47-50% of all Hispanic gang members, illegals comprise 5% of that??!! So Illegal Alien membership is between 80-90% in the 18th Street and MS-13 gangs but it's 5% in the THOUSANDS of other Hispanic gangs around the country? Please enlighten us with where you got that 5% from since you left out...oh, I don't know....thousands of other Hispanic gangs OTHER than your homeys in the 18th street gang.
So you simply decide to take the percentage of illegals in TWO gangs and divide it by the total number of gang members in the United States to come up with your 5%??!!!!!! Ignoring the THOUSANDS of other Hispanic Gangs with Illegal Alien membership?!
Have you ever taken a statistics class? Reading comprehension class? If so, PLEASE hire an attorney and demand your money back from whatever school you went to.
These figures don't even take into account the thousands that are associated with the Drug Cartels. I'm not talking about the stupid gang bangers but those working for the actual Cartels in Mexico, the Zetas, Gulf cartel, etc that come here and set up drug distribution networks all over the U.S. and try their best to stay low key to avoid Law Enforcement attention.

Now take that same number and divide it by 12 million, you get 3/10ths of one percent of ALL illegal aliens in the U.S. are gang members. Hell, you can even double that number and you're still only slightly better than 1/2 of one percent...far less than that of course if illegals are 20 million strong, instead of the 12 million I am calculating.

All this calculating is worthless when your initial number is completely wrong. Read the paragraph above to find out why it's wrong. In the Porterville area of California ALONE there are over 26 Hispanic gangs. That's 26 in one area. Multiply that across the united states and we're talking what, THOUSANDS of hispanic gangs?
So please tell me how you know that only 5% of their membership are illegal aliens?

Then you wonder why you get your ass handed to you on a regular basis here?!!!

Yeah I know, now you're gonna say that even if it was the whole 800,000 that this would be "insignificant" statistically speaking. Hey Jackass, you can reduce numbers down to whatever percentage you like but when you're the one whose home has been broken into, whose family member has been raped, murdered, kidnapped, then it doesn't matter what percentage of illegal alien committed it, it matters that they should not have been in the country to begin with and.....(try to follow me here) if they had NOT been in the country then they would NOT have been able to commit the crime. Do you FINALLY GET IT?

Oh my, now I'm scared. The illegal alien boogeyman is really out of the bag! Or as you so proudly stated:

I'm not sure if YOU are scared or not. I'm certainly not. As a proud citizen of this here country, I freely exercise my second Amendment right. Fear has nothing to do with this conversation. Facts are facts and the above facts don't lie.

As for your one face Mr. Rob Krentz, Krentz's ranch was in Douglas, AZ right on the border at Aqua Preita on hwy 191...

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Dougla...ed=0CCcQ8gEwAQ

A very well-known and well-used route for drug traffic. The fact is that Mr. Krentz was not killed by "illegal aliens", he was killed by drug mules who were without a doubt associated with a Mexican cartel.
HAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!! This is the best one YET! By the way, I'm certainly NOT laughing at the tragic circumstances surrounding the murder of Mr. Krentz. I'm laughing at your stupidity F-Dumb. So please enlighten the board members here what you meant by...."Mr. Krentz was not killed by illegal aliens, he was killed by drug mules"
So I'm guessing that you are now saying that these Mexican Drug mules were U.S. Citizens???!!!!!
Mr. Retard, when a Mexican National agrees to transport illicit drugs across the United States border and then crosses that border, he is now an ILLEGAL ALIEN! The fact that he's carrying drugs for a Mexican Drug Cartel suddenly doesn't make him an illegal alien?? What PLANET do you live on??
Oh wait, maybe it wasn't a "mule" at all, maybe the Zetas or the Gulf Cartel simply sent a hit team over? Maybe there's a 24 hour rule that if you come into the U.S. illegally, murder someone like Mr. Krentz and then jet back across the border then you are technically NOT an illegal? Help me out, what ARE you trying to say with that retarded statement?

This is the same bullshit, completely false argument Arizona tried to make when they started in with this whole illegal alien boogeyman. I stated once before and I will state it again here for the record, you've got drug trafficking criminals so mixed up with illegal aliens that you can't even tell the difference any more. The person or person's responsible for killing Krentz had absolutely nothing to do with 12-20 million illegal aliens currently in this country, and that goes for the rest of the crime taking place along our borders. It's a CRIME problem and no amount of cracking down on "illegals" is ever going to make a difference in that particular situation because they have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
Trying to compare border drug traffickers to illegal aliens is about as stupid as saying all Italians are in the mafia and all Republicans are racist.

Ahmm, are you implying that much of the "border drug traffickers" are NOT illegal aliens??!! Newsflash for you slick. Many illegal aliens carry drugs into the United States as payment to the Cartels for their passage. That's right. The Cartels make deals with them. We'll provide you with a guide to get you into the U.S.A. but you have to carry these drugs in for us. Happens every single day, all along the border. So you're saying if we stopped illegals coming into this country it would NOT reduce the 700,000 crimes that THEY commit per year??!!! What kind of idiot reasoning are you using? I have PROVEN to you with the Department of Homeland Security's own numbers that over 700,000 crimes per year are committed by illegal aliens. Again, that's only the ones that are CAUGHT. So that number is probably in the low millions per year when you count in crimes committed where they are NOT caught. So you're saying that stopping illegal immigration would NOT affect that number? You're saying it wouldn't prevent THOUSANDS of Americans from becoming victims? Again, according to you, 700,000 is "insignificant" or it's only 5 million of a tenth of this or that. It doesn't freaking matter. Reducing our annual criminal incidents by 1 Million or more IS significant to the victims of those crimes. It IS significant when we don't have to spend our tax dollars to fight that crime, to look for, arrest, prosecute and then house in prison those who've committed those crimes. Those victims wouldn't be victims, that money could be spent on better things for CITIZENS of this Country.
Since you don't seem to grasp the concept why I'm focusing on illegals, again, let's break it down so even little F-Dumb can understand. Do people other than illegals commit crimes in this country?
Yes they do. Do some groups statistically commit MORE crimes than illegals in this country? Yes they do. Now, follow along.....If our Police and courts don't have to chase and prosecute hundreds of thousands of ILLEGAL criminals, guess what that does F-Dumb? It frees up those resources so that they can concentrate on the other groups that are citizens. In other words, we have enough problems within our own Population that we certainly don't need to throw in hundreds of thousands MORE problems than we already have. Is that REALLY such a difficult concept for you to grasp? If you take away 700,000 crimes committed by illegals, that frees up that many more police and courtrooms to prosecute our own criminals.
Case in point, the SCAAP reimbursements we've talked of. "The federal State Criminal Alien Assistance Program (SCAAP) reimburses states for some of those costs (of incarceration). SCAAP is a DOJ grant program that has doled out over $300 million annually to states for costs of incarcerating undocumented immigrants.44
That's just what the Feds are paying and doesn't take into account, Crime Victim Compensation, insurance for stolen property, medical costs of victims, hiring of extra police, court costs etc etc etc. As I said, when you add it all up, it reaches Billions per year in our country.
Sorry, that's absolutely as basic as I can break it down for you. My mind simply won't function below Kindergarten level so if you haven't grasped it, maybe it's time for you to consider dropping out.

I'm suprised you have yet to bring up the imaginary headless bodies that idiot Brewer tried so hard to convince gulliables like you were were just showing up in the desert at alarming rates. Yeah, it was complete bullshit, along with the many other tall tales you so passionately want to believe...read this article carefully.

Ever worked along the border F-Sharp? Ever talked to any of the American property owners down there? No, guys like you just run your mouth without every having been first hand involved in ANYTHING that they talk about. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say, not only have you never worked on the Texas/Mexico border but you've probably never served in the Military in any Combat Arms function. I could tell when you spoke of Afghanistan. I can see it when you spout your liberal crap here. No, you've never put your ass on the line in any of those places, not Iraq, not Afghanistan and not right here at home on our border. But you think by spinning some statistics (and you even mention to screw THAT up as your gang statistics show) that you somehow have some insight into these issues. Sometimes it takes more than watching the boobtoob, surfing the net and listening to your fellow liberal friends. Sometimes you have to get involved and see the situation up close and personal. It's obvious you've never bothered to do so.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...070902342.html

Finally, as for attaching numbers to this issue. I did that way back in post #106

http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?...dy#post1534454

There you'll find three separate studies that conclude that illegal aliens are contributing more to our tax base than they are using.

That myth has been debunked many times. Want to hear a LIBERAL'S take on this?
"Advocates of more lenient immigration policies also disagree with the purely fiscal approach. Simply weighing tax receipts against public spending doesn't show the full picture, they say, since illegal immigrants also create tremendous economic value".

In other words F-Dumb, even the immigration advocates say that we can't simply look into how much they're paying in taxes vs how much the government spends on them. No, that wouldn't be fair because besides the cold hard numbers which show the truth, we're to buy into what a "tremendous economic value" they provide.

Sorry, not buying into liberal argument. In other words, when the numbers fail, let's just look at the "value" we're getting?!! Hahahahah

Oh stop being such a girl and suck it up. As I stated, consider losing a debate to me time and time again nothing more than a learning experience. But if you insist, I'll be at Hardtails next Thursday night. I'll be the tall guy at the bar out back wearing a leather vest, with an upside-down cross and a half dozen teardrops tattooed below my left eye, pussy.

Honestly F-Dumb, it must be a struggle for you each morning just trying to figure out how to get out of bed.
Not surprising to me that you would make a joke out of my offer to meet up.

Have a great weekend!

Originally Posted by F-Sharp

.

Ladies PLEASE!

This is insignificant discussion. I mean, what's the fate of the free world compared with sex, forbidden topics and rock 'n roll?

Meanwhile, fling all the labels you want at each other. Anybody with half a brain (and that's about half of this group) knows how ludicrous most of these candidates are.

yes, McCain and dumbshit would have fixed everything by now. Originally Posted by budman33

I'm the "internet tough guy" but when I offered to meet up, you crack a lame joke? Ahmm, yeah ok! Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Who said I was joking?

When we're talking crime in the city of AUSTIN, in certain parts of the city, Illegals account for over HALF the property crimes such as Burglary of Vehicle, burglary of habitation etc. I've said that all along and every link you put up, I'll be glad to highlight my answer in red so you'll be able to find it. Since you seem to have trouble locating my relevant answers. Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Mind explaning what's relevant about hearsay and meaningless bullshit from some imaginary APD detective? Where's your source? What parts of the city? If a part of the city is primarily made up of illegal aliens it's expected that a larger percentage of crime would be committed by them. You wouldn't expect a high portion of crime being committed by whites in a predominately black neighborhood would you genius? Either present your source or...shut the fuck up, because no one cares about your unfounded opinions, conjecture, hearsay, or some imaginary detective.

We're talking about Illegal Aliens! In our discussion we covered their crime, cost to the U.S. government through various services and benefits provided etc. Just tell me which subject in particular you're confused about since I'm skipping around too much for you. Originally Posted by DTorrchia

I don't particularly care which subject, just that you pick one instead of changing topics, locations, and scope every time you post.

So now the Arizona Dpt of Corrections is lying? Is that what you're implying here F-Dumb?? You mentioned "racist agenda and skewed figures" so it sure sounds to me as if you're implying that the Department of Corrections is lying about how many illegals they have locked up. For the record, we've already discussed the SCAAP reimbursement program. So if Arizona was lying about the number of illegals it has in it's prison system, they would be defrauding the Federal Government and I'm sure Obama and Holder would have jumped all over that by now. Originally Posted by DTorrchia

I didn't say lying, I said skewing, in an effort to support a racist agenda. Your link made the following statement:

"The Arizona Department of Corrections reported in 2010 that illegal immigrants are over-represented in the state's prison population."

Fine, no one here has ever doubted this. As previously stated, Arizona is one of three states where 80% of all illegal alien arrests are currently taking place. This, along with the addition of further crackdown it's perfectly expected. What I take issue with is this:

"In June 2010, illegal immigrants represented 14.8 percent of Arizona state prisoners, but accounted for 7 percent of the state's overall population according to the Department of Homeland Security."

Now, I realize you're math and statistics challenged, but try and keep up here.

In 2010, per your link the state prison population made up of illegal aliens was 5,983. According to this link, Arizona's prison population only increased by 2.4% from 2008 - 2009, and essentially tapered off and remained relatively flat from 2009 - present. At the same time the prison population was rising, the number of illegal aliens in Arizona was falling from 560,000 - 375,000.

So, the real change wasn't an increase in the state's alien prisoner population as much as it was a decrease in the states overall alien population. This is even further exacerbated by the fact that the change in prison population is largely a result of a series of changes in state law and policy such as mandatory sentencing, longer prison terms, and restrictions on release and the abolition of parole. All these things add up to longer prison sentences. Even a math and statistics challenged imbecile such as yourself can appreciate the effective propaganda created by such skewing. That is unless of course you care to explain how a measly 2.4% (971 prisoners) increase in the prison population over the last 5 years amounted to 2.2% increase in the change of the state's alien prisoner to overall population while 17% of the alien population of Arizona left the state.


Incidentally genius, that 5,983 total state alien prisoner make-up only represents 1.5% of their total numbers in the state currently, and 9/1000ths of one percent of the total population. Again, one of three states where 80% of all alien arrests are taking place.

It's relevant because it shows that when it comes to certain crimes, Illegals DO commit certain crimes at 3 times or more their population percentage within our Country, a number you tried so hard to ridicule me for. Originally Posted by DTorrchia

"3 times"? Where the fuck are you getting this number exactly? Nothing you've posted so far other than your imaginary friend hearsay even comes close this number. Stop making shit up and try a little 5th grade math.

"According to the nonpartisan Immigration Policy Institute, proponents of the bill "overlook two salient points: Crime rates have already been falling in Arizona for years despite the presence of unauthorized immigrants, and a century's worth of research has demonstrated that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes or be behind bars than the native-born."

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-04-29/j...aw?_s=PM:CRIME

the data showed that the undocumented accounted for 40% of all the prisoners serving time in Arizona state prisons for kidnapping; Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Idiot.

"He said Phoenix has been dealing with the issue for several years now, and the number of reported kidnappings have actually decreased since this story broke in 2009. There were 358 reported kidnappings in 2008 (10 fewer than reported by the LA Times, due to later reclassification of the crimes), 318 in 2009 and there were 105 from January through May 2010, he said, putting the city on track to sustain less than 300 this year."

"Mindful that "spillover violence" from Mexico has become a politically-charged term in the U.S., Thompson said almost everyone who is kidnapped in Phoenix is involved in criminal activities such as illegal border crossings and the drug trade. "Unless you're involved in the dope trade, there's a very very slim chance" that you'll be kidnapped, he said."

http://www.politifact.com/texas/stat...-capital-worl/

Are you disputing that this is not a disproportionate percentage??? Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Not at all, considering that those figures are almost entirely related to the drug trade of a border state as stated above, and have have absolutely nothing to do with illegal immigration in this country as a whole. Again, stop confusing border violence and drug trafficking with illegal aliens. They are two completley different issues with two completely different solutions.

I am seriously beginning to think you might be the love child of some ecstacy and viagra induced night of passion between Jan Brewer and Russell Pearce.

And you want to make us believe that out of the 47-50% of all Hispanic gang members, illegals comprise 5% of that??!! So Illegal Alien membership is between 80-90% in the 18th Street and MS-13 gangs but it's 5% in the THOUSANDS of other Hispanic gangs around the country? Please enlighten us with where you got that 5% from since you left out...oh, I don't know....thousands of other Hispanic gangs OTHER than your homeys in the 18th street gang. Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Very good question my math challenged little friend. Well, let's see:

Hispanic population of the U.S. : 16.3% or 50,325,523 if you prefer

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

Illegal alien population of the U.S. : 3% or 11 million if you prefer

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7107XV20110201

Portion of illegals that are hispanic : 55% or 6,050,000

http://immigration.procon.org/view.r...=000845#graphs

Percentage of hispanics / illegals : 12% or 1:8 if you prefer

Statistics showing illegals commit far less crime than their native born counterparts:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/irb/irb_june2010.pdf

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may...crime-20100503

http://reason.com/archives/2009/07/0...l-paso-miracle

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/ar...n-lower-crime/

Based on what we know for certain, there's a little guess work, but if only 1 in 8 hispanics are here illegally, and illegals are only committing less than half of the crime as their native legal counterparts, then 6% is a pretty safe bet, slightly in your favor I might add.

Let's see how it adds up shall we?

900,000 estimated gang members in the United States

We'll assume 1 of every 16 of those gang members are illegal or 6%.

900,000 * .06 = 54,000

So that leaves and additional 13,900 disitributed amongst the far lesser gangs consisiting of negligible numbers across the United States.

Again, the rest of your argument is nothing but conjecture and unsubstantiated bullshit, guess I will leave it at that.

Have you ever taken a statistics class? Reading comprehension class? Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Yes to both and the former is one of my specialties in fact. Given your responses thus far it's becomming more and more obvious you haven't.

So please enlighten the board members here what you meant by...."Mr. Krentz was not killed by illegal aliens, he was killed by drug mules" Originally Posted by DTorrchia

So I'm guessing that you are now saying that these Mexican Drug mules were U.S. Citizens???!!!!!
Mr. Retard, when a Mexican National agrees to transport illicit drugs across the United States border and then crosses that border, he is now an ILLEGAL ALIEN! Originally Posted by DTorrchia

You know exactly what I meant, and playing a semantics game with me isn't going to make you look like less of an idiot. For sake of clarity, the point I made is this. Enforcment of immigration specific laws and "cracking down" on illegal immigrants will do nothing to alleviate border crime and drug trafficking. SB1070 is a perfect example of misguided and irrational law that will make no difference what so ever in border crime. You tell me, does it make more sense to question someone's residency status, or question them as to why they are carrying 50lbs of weed and an AK47 around with them in the middle of the desert? Are you going to stop someone in a tunnel and ask them for proof of residency, or be more curious in the 5 kilos of cocaine they're dragging with them? There is a distinct difference between someone who has come here and overstayed their visa and someone shuffling cocaine across an underground tunnel. Even a moron such as yourself should be able to make that distinction.

Many illegal aliens carry drugs into the United States as payment to the Cartels for their passage. That's right. The Cartels make deals with them. We'll provide you with a guide to get you into the U.S.A. but you have to carry these drugs in for us. Happens every single day, all along the border. Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Conjecture, conjecture, unsubstantiated bullshit, and more conjecture. You should write a novel based on all this fiction, it would be a best-seller for certain. You know this how? You ADP detective friend again? Maybe you know some cartel folks personally and they were happy to give up their secrets to you?

Reducing our annual criminal incidents by 1 Million or more IS significant to the victims of those crimes. It IS significant when we don't have to spend our tax dollars to fight that crime, to look for, arrest, prosecute and then house in prison those who've committed those crimes. Those victims wouldn't be victims, that money could be spent on better things for CITIZENS of this Country. Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Don't even think of trying to pull that self-righteous faux-patriotic shit with me. If crime was really your issue, then illegal aliens should be the least of your worries. You've already been shown how much less crime they are actually committing then any other culture/race we compared them to. If crime is really your issue then you'd be better served going after blacks first, legal hispanics second, whites third, and illegals last.

So you're saying if we stopped illegals coming into this country it would NOT reduce the 700,000 crimes that Originally Posted by DTorrchia

THEY commit per year??!!! What kind of idiot reasoning are you using? Originally Posted by DTorrchia

That's exactly what I am saying. Considering that 99.99% of all illegals in this country are not committing any crime. You need to pay closer attention, that statistic was determined just a few posts back. The exact figure based on your figures was 3.5/100ths of one percent of all illegal aliens in this country are actually committing crime.

Sometimes it takes more than watching the boobtoob, surfing the net and listening to your fellow liberal friends Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Yeah, more specifically in your case; propaganda, conjecture, unsubstantiated fairy tales, and complete bullshit.

That myth has been debunked many times. Originally Posted by DTorrchia

By who? Where? Three separate professional and academic studies have all been debunked "many times"? Does this include the one written by the Comptroller for the State of Texas? I'd like to see some of this debunking you claim.

Sorry, not buying into liberal argument. In other words, when the numbers fail, let's just look at the "value" we're getting?!! Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Here's the corrected version:

Sorry, not buying into proven facts and statistics. In other words, when the numbers disprove unfounded opinion, let's just make shit up and ignore the numbers completely.

Not surprising to me that you would make a joke out of my offer to meet up. Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Again, who said I was joking? I'll be keeping my eye you for you Thursday pal.

Those darned illegal immigrants. They're criminals for being here in the first place without papers. There can't possibly be a decent bone in their whole bodies. They're a pox on our culture and morals.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/08/19/new...html?hpt=hp_t1

He's no hero. He claims that himself. If that immigration criminal had the proper papers, he could have rescued that little girl from the pedophile/kidnapper (a legal U.S. citizen/resident) without her getting bruises. Deport the low-life, so-called "hero", immediately.

Thank you Carl. Now we can completely dismantle the Border Patrol and open our country to anybody that wants to walk in. Think of all the money we can save. Maybe not.

http://digitaljournal.com/article/293498

Glad we're not in California...

BTW -- Budman, did anyone on your family tree just walk into this country?

Glad we're not in California...

BTW -- Budman, did anyone on your family tree just walk into this country? Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Walked in, no. Sailed in, yes. But what does that have to do with any of this?

Thank you Carl. Now we can completely dismantle the Border Patrol and open our country to anybody that wants to walk in. Think of all the money we can save. Maybe not.

http://digitaljournal.com/article/293498 Originally Posted by Budman

Well, if some folks get their wish and Perry becomes POTUS the Border Patrol may just become redundant dead weight once he sends the National Guard and predator drones to seal the border. In the meantime, I'm sure there's lots of patriotic Americans like yourself that would be eager to volunteer to secure the border in order to balance the budget. I mean, if it's a valid cogent response to tell those that support revenue increases to help balance the budget that they are free to pay more than they owe, then it should be an equally valid cogent response to tell those private citizens in the private sector that want services and the size of government reduced to feel free to step up and provide those services that might be cut to satisfy the "Cut, Cap & Balance" folks.

It seems that immigrants can't keep it in their pants, huh? Thank goodness that Arnold was a legal immigrant. Who knows what sort of a sex criminal the Guvernator might have become without the proper paperwork and identity papers? Thank goodness his character and moral flaws seem to be limited to being a serial groper, harasser, philanderer and adulterer. Though, I think the crime of adultery is still on the books in various locales. Can you imagine if Arnold had been born in the US? Why, he might have turned to kidnapping and an assortment of other aggravated offenses like the Legal American that tried to abduct that little girl.

So Carl what's your point? Since some US citizens are criminals then we should welcome criminals from all other countries. Kind of a silly argument don't you think?

So Carl what's your point? Since some US citizens are criminals then we should welcome criminals from all other countries. Kind of a silly argument don't you think? Originally Posted by Budman

No, my first point is that demonizing illegal immigrants, as a group, as likely violent criminals, in part because they have already broken immigration law, is absurd.

My second point, for the hard-line Tea Party supporters, is that if they are so sold out to balance the budget while not raising revenues in any way, that they should also be ready to "put up or shut up" and perform the services which the government may choose to reduce or eliminate, even some that they would seem to approve of.

And since some Tea Party supporters also seem to hold strict constructionalist views of the Constitution as well as the view that illegal immigrants (in addition to committing an overwhelming number of crimes) only serve steal jobs as well as government-paid human services, they should also remember that there is no explicit Constitutional mandate for a "Border Patrol" to secure the border.

So, if someone glibly and sarcastically wants to invite someone who sees nothing wrong with balancing the budget (in part) by increasing some government revenues to pay more than they owe, those same revenue-increase-averse individuals should also be reciprocally invited to go perform for themselves all the duties that they would like to see continue but which should logically also be cut.

In my political world-view compromise is not a four-letter word, any way I try to spell it. I do concede I went to public school, but I did so a long time ago when they were actually still doing a decent job of teaching kids how to spell, among other things.

I got any idea on how to raise revenues without raising taxes. All the Hollywood liberal elites and the ultra rich like Warren Buffet need to put their money where their mouth is. They can all cut a check to the federal government for the amount they feel they should pay extra. What is funny they can do this every year and choose not to. Then they say they do not pay enough.

I got any idea on how to raise revenues without raising taxes. All the Hollywood liberal elites and the ultra rich like Warren Buffet need to put their money where their mouth is. They can all cut a check to the federal government for the amount they feel they should pay extra. What is funny they can do this every year and choose not to. Then they say they do not pay enough. Originally Posted by Wyldeman30

And please feel free to go on down to the Rio Grande, set up a lawn chair and chase down and detain anybody that you see crossing it without a valid passport. But if it's too hot for you, then perhaps you should spend all your days visiting construction sites and restaurant kitchens and check the workers for their legal documentation of residence and work status. Don't do the job half-way. Detain and deport them, too. I think Rick Perry is kind of busy right now, but if you need some company I'm sure Tom Tancredo would be happy to go along and help. And I'll bet Shawna Ford would go along with you, too, if the Arizona Department of Corrections would let her.

If you don't recognize those names, I'm sure you know how to Google 'em.

And please feel free to go on down to the Rio Grande, set up a lawn chair and chase down and detain anybody that you see crossing it without a valid passport. But if it's too hot for you, then perhaps you should spend all your days visiting construction sites and restaurant kitchens and check the workers for their legal documentation of residence and work status. Don't do the job half-way. Detain and deport them, too. I think Rick Perry is kind of busy right now, but if you need some company I'm sure Tom Tancredo would be happy to go along and help. And I'll bet Shawna Ford would go along with you, too, if the Arizona Department of Corrections would let her.

If you don't recognize those names, I'm sure you know how to Google 'em. Originally Posted by Carl

Oh come on Carl, Lets just turn the USA as the next Australia. Our new ad should be bring all your criminals here we will welcome them with open arms we are illegal immigrant friendly. So send us all you rapist,murderers, and thieves. USA keeping our citizens lives at stake while making a home for the ones you do not want.

I am all for immigrants coming here in search of a better life as long as they do it legally. There needs to be a system in place that is more efficient for this. Teach them all how to speak the native tongue as well.