Good Client? Trick? Schmuck?

The FIVE I do this with love me... I just know it!

Okay time for some real talk.

Listen and listen well, a provider is a provider is a provider! It's business and will always be business from her end. You are acting like that one guy that we all have seen that frequent strip clubs on a weekly basis who thinks that if only he just gives a little bit more money that stripper will like him and see him for who he is.. It ain't going to happen bud. She is just going to take your money and go give it to her boyfriend who has no job and has 10 different baby mammas who is covered in tats.

Nice guys will always finish last.You cannot and will not earn a woman's respect by doing things for her. You earn people's respect by being man enough to have them do things for YOU. People value whatever they can't have and that they feel they have to earn. If you are with a provider, pay her what she wants, treat her like a lady while you are with her, but don't get emotionally involved. There is no end game with a provider that is going to lead to happiness for you. You have seen what being too nice leads to. It leads you to being used like an emotional tampon and having to pay other women for sex. Be nice, treat the ladies you are with well, but nobody appreciates a sucker.

Darling PFC, you sound like a really great guy! Once a month is wonderful to start, and it seems that our chemistry is increasing since the frequency in our dates are. Your gifts are appreciated, and so are your tips.

You are a man, and I'm a woman. We are intimate together. And while our individual desires brought us together, I am not a feeling-less robot that cannot return the affections of such a generous man. Although our interactions won't result in anything but us enjoying the moments we spend, neither of us should have anything to regret.

As long as you're having a good time and being treated with respect, what no one else thinks matters. You should read my latest blog post.

You should never feel bad for treating any woman like a woman. Especially one that makes you feel good for doing it.

I have been in this business so long that I've got friends (yes friends) I've been seeing for over 5 years. We do cool things for our birthdays and "anniversaries", I have given gifts (some very pricey), and we take trips together. Most of them are married, and while their hearts will always be with their wives, I'm very appreciative that they take the time to have fun with me.

Just think of it this way: no matter how you met her, you'll still give her gifts and spending money to make sure she's comfortable. If you're married, this is the best way to assure that your personal life stays yours, and that thresh hold of feelings won't be crossed.

Fun without intricacies. That's what it's all about.

DAYUM!

Darling PFC, you sound like a really great guy! Once a month is wonderful to start, and it seems that our chemistry is increasing since the frequency in our dates are. Your gifts are appreciated, and so are your tips.

You are a man, and I'm a woman. We are intimate together. And while our individual desires brought us together, I am not a feeling-less robot that cannot return the affections of such a generous man. Although our interactions won't result in anything but us enjoying the moments we spend, neither of us should have anything to regret.

As long as you're having a good time and being treated with respect, what no one else thinks matters. You should read my latest blog post.

You should never feel bad for treating any woman like a woman. Especially one that makes you feel good for doing it.

I have been in this business so long that I've got friends (yes friends) I've been seeing for over 5 years. We do cool things for our birthdays and "anniversaries", I have given gifts (some very pricey), and we take trips together. Most of them are married, and while their hearts will always be with their wives, I'm very appreciative that they take the time to have fun with me.

Just think of it this way: no matter how you met her, you'll still give her gifts and spending money to make sure she's comfortable. If you're married, this is the best way to assure that your personal life stays yours, and that thresh hold of feelings won't be crossed.

Fun without intricacies. That's what it's all about.
Originally Posted by Tiffani Jameson

Wow Tiffani, you sound just like her. Good thing you are all the way down in TX, or I'd have two gals to deal with! You're not hard on the eyes, either.

I read your blog post. This hit me:

"Whatever form of currency you fork over in our securities exchange, whether it’s your money or your heart, should be rendered willingly, with the understanding that there’s no refunds or exchanges."

When a smart, pretty, interesting lady is also providing you with mindblowing sex, it is hard to not develop some feelings for them. You ladies say this is ok. The guys don't.....but I don't know how to turn it off. I guess I have to accept it for what it is, and live with it.

It's like that M&M candy commercial: at the end, as he accepts his fate, he yells "it hurts, but I kind of like it!"

Thanks to all for your input.

Tiffani always has an eloquent way of speaking. Gotta love her for that!

One provider response: good client.
2 client responses: this guy's in trouble

No doubt. This is not a friend of a friend. It's me.

And yes, I like her. A lot. And enjoy my times with her. But, I'm not in a position to have an "official relationship" with her. Nor am I looking for a sugar baby......and I doubt I could afford that anyway.

But, I am dropping 500 to a grand on her every month. And my accountant is ok with that, and maybe a bit more.

My question was asked because I wonder if my attentions are truly appreciated, or if I am just being led along. It is so hard to think clearly in this activity.

How long have some of you ladies seen your regulars? How frequently. Does it ever get "weird"? (Austin Powers film reference).

I don't want it to get weird.

Thanks Originally Posted by PFCffff

We knew it was you. So describe her taint and we can supply the proper advice. And so who is doing your wife if its not you?

PFCfffff, you might want to check out this thread as it is a situation kinda similar to yours.
http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=826583&highlight=

i think Laz hit the nail on the head - you cant control what anyone else does, how they feel, why they do [unless you take over their life, and that's not going to end well]. you can only control yourself!!

so, of the 5 items you want, i concur that #5 is the only one mostly under your control [you can only help her have an orgasm, you cant be sure if she will or did or faked it].
"I would love to give her a great orgasm, and know for sure it was for real. That’s for MY ego."

even if those other 4 happened, how will you really know if she was being genuine about her feelings/actions towards you? can you say "illusion of passion"? you'll never know if she really does all those things for you or for her.

so, i suggest you spend time with her and hope you get [not expect] what you want and/or need.
how she reacts, what she does, what she feels is totally her choice.
i also suggest you dont make your happiness depend on what someone else does. that's a recipe for shattered expectations.
and when you no longer feel happy about the relationship, end it and move on.

peace be with you!!

No, he is not a good client! He's a GREAT client!

Wow Tiffani, you sound just like her. Good thing you are all the way down in TX, or I'd have two gals to deal with! You're not hard on the eyes, either.

I read your blog post. This hit me:

"Whatever form of currency you fork over in our securities exchange, whether it’s your money or your heart, should be rendered willingly, with the understanding that there’s no refunds or exchanges."

When a smart, pretty, interesting lady is also providing you with mindblowing sex, it is hard to not develop some feelings for them. You ladies say this is ok. The guys don't.....but I don't know how to turn it off. I guess I have to accept it for what it is, and live with it.

It's like that M&M candy commercial: at the end, as he accepts his fate, he yells "it hurts, but I kind of like it!"

Thanks to all for your input. Originally Posted by PFCffff

LOL I like that attitude! And thank you for reading...

I understand what the guys mean. And I think that mentality comes from young ladies nowadays make themselves so expendable to men. It's led to this sort of value system when it comes to women. But how dare they mention money and motive, especially since some of these guys don't know if their wives/SO's would deal with them without the money. But it boils down to whether you value the person or the money more.

Some guys confuse fondness for intense feelings. An understanding of the difference un-complicates things. When you meet good people, fondness develops. You smile when you hear their name, and remember the times you had. But coupled with the limitations of how you met, you understand what's possible between you.

The biggest mistake people make in general is misjudging where one can meet quality people. There's nothing wrong with surrounding yourself with good people, no matter the circumstances.

As long as she keeps taking your money when you see her, you already know the answer to your questions.
Test the theory, let her know you are a little strapped this week but would still like to see her, but off the clock. Her answer will tell you exactly what you need to know. Originally Posted by Chica Chaser

That's genius.

sounds like your in a tornado going nowhere. nice gesture and outward display of your talents. Asking if it is appreciated,..well sure it is. She is in the business to make money, get her bills paid, and live life with no wants. You may be doing all that and some. This is an emotional and physical attraction but more so a MENTAL ATTRACTION. Not in a position to date says involved. IF you like her that much, she might like you back, but remember its the money relationship that got you where you are.

Not positive, but your language alludes that you're wanting to avoid him getting too close to you...
But you're missing that he is the ideal client. Every provider has her small circle of gents that has known her for years. These guys are simply equivalernt to those customers that frequent other businesses...i.e Starbucks, Chick-fil-a, etc. They both have customers they see a couple times a day to those they see every few months. Why not spend time with someone already screened, knows your body and vice versa, gives extra instead of asking for your specials without EVER meeting you, and other extra migraines that come with the business (LE). Solid gents like these are your backbone, and the reason why some ladies go UTR. Good luck!

I don't think it's weird at all. My personal goal in this business is to obtain a few sweet and steady regulars so you sound like a dream!!

As long as you know yourself and the provider is okay with it, why stress?! Both of you are obviously enjoying eachother's company or you wouldn't see her as much, and nor would she see you (at least imo).

I have a regular relationship with a gent whose story is very similar to yours (minus the tipping *sigh*). He sees me weekly, usually on the same day and I usually just have that entire day cleared for him. He is very nice and we are comfortable together and it's not weird at all or anything like that.

He's definitely not a creepy stalker-like person and is not delusional about what I do so our fantasy relationship is very much grounded in the reality that he will always be a client and I a provider. As long as you never forget that you deserve to have all the fun you want! Might as well drop all of that money on someone you like and are comfortable with. No need to spoil a good thing as I believe you are a perfect example of a provider/client relationship

I wanted to write a little more than two or three lines in reply to your question, so it had to wait until this morning when I could sit with my cup of coffee and have a half hour to type.

I noticed you don’t have a lot of posts so I will not assume you don’t have much in the way of back stories or histories of posters here so you may be reading this thread with little or no context outside the thread itself, so I will tell you that the different replies you got here are a fairly true reflection of how the different personas (myself included) tend to see this corner of the world. You do seem to be getting their consistent views (i.e. consistent with posts they have made on similar topics)—but those people (again, myself included) all see things from what our experiences have been, and those can greatly differ. Much of the differences come down to what THEY are looking for, which may not resemble what YOU are looking for. You can rarely go wrong listening to Tiffani about these things, and I agree with pmdelites post.

But to your question. First of all, one part is easy to answer: you are not a schmuck. At the very, very minimum you are enjoying time with a pretty young lady, you are paying a fair price, and she gives every indication of enjoying the time as well. Even if you knew with 100% certainty that she only saw you as a client (which I doubt) you are getting fair trade for the advertised product. Schmuck is off table for consideration—it does not apply.

Second easy question: are you in trouble? Taking what you said on face value:
(1) Financially you can afford the frequent visits.
(2) You really aren’t looking to fall in love with her, you aren’t looking to have her fall in love with you, but you would like to know if she likes you. THIS IS A BIG CAVEAT: IF YOU ARE NOT BEING HONEST WITH YOURSELF YOU CAN DO SOME SERIOUS DAMMAGE TO BOTH OF YOU.

Then no, you are not a fool.

So really you are left with one question: how does she feel about you? You want to know if she has some feelings of friendship towards you—whether she enjoys seeing YOU on some level, not you’re your wallet. Contrary to what you would like to be true, you can’t read her brain waves and tell. Contrary to what some guys would have you believe “friend” is not at all the same thing as “boyfriend” or “Deeply in love with”. A lot of guys firmly believe that if she won’t see you for free then she sees you only as a commodity, and that is just not true. Not every lady will or wants to be friends with any client. Not every guy wants to or allows friendship to enter their emotional inner sanctum. But when both are willing to allow it, it certainly can happen.

There are two ways I think you can go about this. The most direct is to ask her. Essentially just like you said it here on the board. But most guys are far too scared and/or self-conscious to do so (at least the guys who worry about these questions). If she laughs in your face you have your answer, but it requires making yourself pretty vulnerable and the blow to the emotions and male ego can be pretty painful. If she says “Yes, I do like you as a human being” you will still wonder the same thing you did initially—“Is she acting?”

The second way is to look for the human nature inferences.

My butcher, my travel agent, and my banker are all people I see quite often, but while I smile and I’m courteous with them it is strictly a business transaction. However to some degree I AM friends with my barber, my stock broker, and my mechanic. We usually catch up on some personal topics when I see them, occasionally stop and chat on the street if I run into them, and have even every once in a while gone to a ballgame or other social event that we were both interested in. That doesn’t mean I secretly want to run off with them (the barber and stock broker are women) nor would I ever expect them to give me their services for free. That doesn’t mean they see me as strictly a commodity.

The same has definitely happened with some ladies in this business. We are business associates first and foremost, but friends as well. They are far from mutually exclusive. There are some who regularly join me for dinner OTC after a session. Some will meet me only for dinner if I am driving through their town and they are available. I’ve been to baseball games, concerts, picnics, etc., and I’ve been occasionally invited to dinner at their homes. I don’t expect it, it is usually for special occasions—birthdays, etc.—and those are “friend” times, no sex promised, implied, or expected, though sometimes it happens. I would never think of saying to any of them, “If you really like me why don’t we just forget the money this time”. It is still their livelihood whether they truly enjoy your visit or not.

Since from your list of five things you would like to be true, let me suggest that there are much better clues to whether she actually enjoys seeing you. This is NOT a checklist or score sheet, but “clues” to look for:

--When there is some down time, cuddling time, dinner, etc., and she steers the conversation topics, are they always business, world, politics, etc., or does she open up a little about herself? Does she bring up topics that someone would talk to a trusted friend about? Does she feel safe enough with you to let you see that she is a real person?

--Do the two of you talk/write/etc. other than directly related to an appointment? If you haven’t sen her for a while (whatever that means to the two of you) do you occasionally send a non-erotic e-mail that truly says “Hi, just sending a note to say I’m thinking about you. Hope your day is going well.” Does she write back? If she does, what does she say?

AFTER an appointment that didn’t include dinner, as you are leaving, tell her you are hungry and are going to Restaurant XXXXXX. Ask if she would like to come along. You are giving her every opportunity to gracefully decline since this is a last minute pop-up. But if she accepts it tells you something. If she declines but says, “I’m sorry, but I have to pick up the kids from school. I’d love to next time.”, that tells you something. If she says, “That will be another $200.00”, that tells you something. Important point: if she accepts then YOU have to go along with the deal—it is a dinner with a friend (you offered so you pick up the tab), not an extension of a paid encounter. No sexual innuendos on your part unless she starts it. No expectation that she will invite you back to her place for desert OTH—if you EXPECT that it isn’t about finding out if she likes you, it’s work.

Nothing involving relationships between people is foolproof, and there are never definitive signs. But if you keep your awareness up you really can learn a lot. If the clues say she does enjoy YOU and your company, then if it were me I’d just let her actions and her smile be my answer. But if that is not sufficient then you need to revert to option #1 and have the conversation with her. The same risks and uncertainties will apply as I mentioned above, but at least you will have done all the prep of the battle field that you could control.

Good luck. Feel free to send a PM if you wish.