the destruction of America.

If Santa has more than 50 elves, he will face a fine of up to $2000 for every elf who has to purchase health care on the government exchange (exception for the first 30, but this is really vague to the point of nonsense).

In the meantime, if Santa qualifies as a small business he will get a 35% discount/rebate/itemized deduction (again with the vague) on employee plans. This is one of the very few benefits to kick in this year.

Feel free to post a correction if I got any of this wrong.

I like the part about Santa having 50 elves.......you think Obama could arrange that?

Does this mean that Santa will be forced to provide healthcare to the elves? Originally Posted by Bababoeuy

Independent contractors are exempt, same as strippers, lol.

They are a lot of people who comes up with all kind of misinformation about health care reform like "give up 1/2 your check to pay for it" This is the kind of thing that is really sad. Originally Posted by jhende3

How do YOU think it's going to be paid for? There are 3 ways: (1) increased taxes (yes, YOUR taxes will go up), (2) increased insurance premiums (yes, YOUR insurance premium will go up) and (3) decreased services elsewhere (Medicare/Medicaid benefits will be cut).

The government can't run shit except a military. Social Security is going bankrupt, Medicare/Medicaid is going bankrupt, the Post Office is going bankrupt and NOW our health and medical coverage is left up to these clowns?!!! Gee, I wonder what could possibly go wrong with this option?

Newfoundland and Labrador Premier Danny Williams of Canada just came to the US to have heart surgery (http://www.google.com/hostednews/can...Yz_6_b-gsGGDxA). Why, because paying for better U.S. medical services was a better option than his own FREE Canadian health care.

If you ever entered Charity Hospital, you would have seen what "free" health care looked like. Now we get to bring that to every hospital. Anybody who thinks this will not affect them is living in a dream world. The insurance you have will cost you more, the services you get will decline and you will have to wait longer to get it. Of course, the "free" health care is not "universal" as those who "can" pay for it still have to pay for it or be fined while those who "can't" pay for it get to ride on my increase in premiums. There are already many doctors who will not accept Medicare/Medicaid because the reimbursement rate is way too low and it takes too long to get paid, yet somehow increasing the number of people with free or cheap health coverage is not going to make this problem even worse?

There's no doubt that health insurance is expensive. Most of that is due to those who are uninsured. Now we just added more uninsured to rolls at the expense of others. I pay almost $2,400 a year in premiums and I have to shell out $5,500 out of pocket BEFORE I get reimbursed a single dime from my insurance company. Almost $8,000 a year before I see any benefits at all, but now we get to give this service away to those who choose not to have it. Pretty soon, I won't be able to afford insurance, or at least won't be able to afford to get sick, but I'll still make "too much" for the free stuff. So I'll then be one of the "new uninsured." What plan will they come up with for me, I wonder?

What a country.

In 10 years this will be seen as a good thing. I remember Ronald Reagan arguing against Medicare. He was wrong then.

The most anti-communist president was Nixon. This is very close to the plan he was pushing 40 years ago.

In 10 years this will be seen as a good thing. I remember Ronald Reagan arguing against Medicare. He was wrong then.

The most anti-communist president was Nixon. This is very close to the plan he was pushing 40 years ago. Originally Posted by juan2fork

Reagan on medicare? have you been following what's going on in that sector?

doctors are refusing to take medicare patients as the medicare payments aren't enough to cover their losses.

more to the point, medicare is in trouble.

Getting govt. involved totally in health care is not a good idea. They are responsible for passing laws (bit by bit) that deliberately break private medical care since 1950.

and you wonder why for 75 years people in this country opposed socailized medicine.

In 10 years this will be seen as a good thing. I remember Ronald Reagan arguing against Medicare. He was wrong then.

The most anti-communist president was Nixon. This is very close to the plan he was pushing 40 years ago. Originally Posted by juan2fork

Just for the record, what is the weather like on the planet you are on?

Nixon's proposal did not raise taxes and it did not mandate insurance, TWO of the biggest problems people have with this plan. Also in his plan, the majority of the over site resided with the States, not with the Federal government, do you really think that anyone in D.C. now is going to let that happen?

If we can find a way to cover people without breaking the bank then I am great without that, but despite what the liberal media says to the contrary, health care is not a right. We have witnessed the beginning of the end with this legislation.

The only thing that I see that has a chance at saving this wonderful experiment are the words of one of our founding fathers,

'God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independent 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & a half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure' - Thomas Jefferson

treeman I couldn't afford health insurance at the time. But I believe most people who don't like the president didn't vote for the president and never would vote for the president hates anything the president does. They are a lot of people who comes up with all kind of misinformation about health care reform like "give up 1/2 your check to pay for it" This is the kind of thing that is really sad. Originally Posted by jhende3

I stand by my comment above. You made a CHOICE to not have health insurance. Did you sell your car? Cancel you cable or phone service? Eat rama noodles all month? You didn't have insurance and it bit you in the ass when you broke your hand. I will admit that sucks but I don't think the whole damn system needs to be turned upside down because you didn't want to pay your health insurance!!

Want to know what I find sad. Look at a bell curve. Half the people in this country are below average but you and your govt want everything "equal". How are you going to pull that shit off? Bring the bollow up? Hell no. they will always be on the bottom. But we can bring the top down. Now the misery is equal! and that is only fair....right?

BTW.. the govt already takes "1/2 your check" now!

I have a few doctors in my family and they will not take medicare patients because they only get paid 25 cents on the dollar & I have heard from them that a lot of the older doctors will just retire early rather than deal with the government bullshit that's coming. So even if you have regular health insurance get ready for long long waits to see doctors.

I always carry my own personal heath insurance even if the company I work for offers it because you never know how long you will be at that company.

This is a bad law and hopefully it will get repealed, but I agree that something needs to be done to keep cost down as my insurance went up 30% this year because of this ignorant bullshit!! If they would just let insuance companies sell in all states that would bring prices down and put caps on medical malpractice suits we would be better off that this 3000 page law that 99% of our congress men & wemon did not even fucking read!!!

Oh, gee, I was going to stay quiet but Dave hit so close to home. I refuse to take Medicare or Medicaid because they refuse to pay anything like what I am willing to take for my services. I started out 20 years ago accepting Medicare but finally just said to heck with it. Do I still see Medicare patients... yes but they pay at time of service (as all of my patients do).

The progression that I see coming (only way for it to "work" in my eyes) is that the doctors that DO take Medicare and Medicaid will be overwhelmed with new "covered" patients. They will no longer be able to see paying patients and will not be able to pay their bills because, no matter what anyone thinks, they LOSE money seeing the people that only have that coverage. Eventually, they, too, will cease to provide services to those that have government insurance (call it what you will but that is what it is... the "Public Option"). So Big Government in Washington will have to step in and REQUIRE that the doctors take on those patients. Not some of the doctors, all of them. That will effectively limit the income of Physicians (the majority of whom do NOT make millions but struggle with their monthly bills just like everyone else). So fewer and fewer young men and women will decide on a career in medicine and the wait will get longer and longer for ANY service.

I am very thankful that I am close enough to retirement age and have worked hard to build up a nest egg that may support me till I die (of old age or lack of needed care) that if it comes to the situation described above I will quit. I refuse to work for free.

@treeman - Well said to jhende3 on it was his choice. I have been so poor, paying mortgage, student loans and alimony (that one is all my fault but it was worth it to get rid of her) that I was not sure what was going to be for dinner but I NEVER went without health insurance. Expensive... yes but NOT having it can be a lot more expensive. Had a colleague that wanted a big house so he skipped health insurance and bought his new wife a big house... he stated having strokes and instead of following doctors orders and running up a big bill he checked himself out of the hospital... He's dead and his new wife is alone. That sucks much worse than a small house.

@Tommyboy7070... well said... +1 here

I wish most people would stop confusing being against this bill and being against health care reform.

I think the majority of US Citizens are for Health Care Reform, but most people I know are AGAINST this bill.

The Dems operate under the premise that Americans are too dumb and stupid to make their own damn decisions.

Herbalist,

Look at the people American Majority have elected. Maybe Democrats do have a point; we might be too dumb. (after all they know themselves, right?)

HH

Czar Obama's desire all along was to transform the U.S. into some unrecognizable entity. He hates the U.S. It's why he once refused to wear the American Flag pin on his lapel. Pelosi and her minions 'shreded' the Constitution. The first step towards Socialism has been taken. This is what Obama wanted all along. He said it many times during his campaign for the Presidency. On camera he spoke to Joe the Plumber about WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION! Every Democrat was so glossy eyed over the Annointed One that they didn't hear him say it. In essence all those who voted for Obama actually voted for Socialism.

In 10 years this will be seen as a good thing........ Originally Posted by juan2fork

That's when we start saving $1.2 Trillion.... right?

It'll never happen. I saw propaganda from Obama's Ministry just this evening. It was about how so many doctor's love the idea of Obama Care. That's false. Many have said they will be forced to leave the profession because Obama Care would all but force them to go bankrupt because they wouldn't be paid enough to break even let alone make any money. The number of patients is going to far exceed the amount of doctors. What happen's then?? RATIONING!!