Simple question: do you believe in equal justice for everyone?

You stop using the perjorative DPST and slandering the opposition in every post and there’ll be fewer of them big bad Hateful Trolls to get in the way of your absolute pronouncements, oeb11.

Your name calling posts are no less antagonizing or rude than those of the lowest info posters in here, just because you generally use complete sentences doesn’t change that fact.

I don’t believe that behavior makes all conservatives assholes.

But it makes a strong case for One.

And for the record, I believe in equal justice under the law. I saw it written on a building somewhere.

Thanks to all the people who've put TM on ignore and don't quote him.

Although I believe in equal justice, circumstances of similar crimes can be very different. That's why there's variations of crimes like murder and a sentencing range. Originally Posted by gnadfly

Not to forget about the ....

Federal Sentencing Guidelines and the point system codified in it.

As well as the local, state, and federal punishment ranges.

Ladies, here's the bottom line .... imposing the same punishment on all alleged offenses of the same statute would result in a case backlog that would result in cases being dismissed for a number of reasons. So "one-size-fits-all" doesn't work in the criminal justice system. Just like "one-size-fits-all" doesn't fit in any other constitutionally protected right.

TB, with all due respect, the "topic" has been debated in this country for over 200 years, so you think you can start a provocative thread on the topic with "yes" or "no" vote. There are too many want-to-a-be experts in here to even dream of it.

You stop using the perjorative DPST and slandering the opposition in every post and there’ll be fewer of them big bad Hateful Trolls to get in the way of your absolute pronouncements, oeb11.

Your name calling posts are no less antagonizing or rude than those of the lowest info posters in here, just because you generally use complete sentences doesn’t change that fact.

I don’t believe that behavior makes all conservatives assholes.

But it makes a strong case for One.

And for the record, I believe in equal justice under the law. I saw it written on a building somewhere. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Look in a mirror, SomeOne, you are identifying with Trolls.

I am not the least bit sorry if SomeOne is Offended - and whose responses are far from cogent, constructive debate.

If you have complaints - Please contact the Mod - DS
If SomeOne considers the use of DPST name-calling - SomeOne is welcome to do so.

Chuckle
That is clearly a satiric response about conservatives, and belief in equal justice under the Law.

barley, tm is a troll and is also trying to channel Cjohnny as well.


so in short he's a cjohnny troll. you're better off ignoring him. Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

themystic

Doesn't call for a lot of comments or debate. Do you believe that anyone who commits the same crime should face the same consequences? Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

It would be nice if true, but statistics show if you are wealthy and white you will do less time than if your skin color has a darker tint.

Okay, a few responses to work with. I have to point out that I never said anything about the same sentence. Mercy is the province of judges or maybe revenge. No, this about procedure mostly. Ready? If a member of an administration lies before congress and is indicted, shouldn't a member of another administration face the same indictment for same crime? Those two are about equal in responsibility. What someone high up the totem pole committing the same crime as someone low on the food chain? Do we give someone a pass because they are someone and convict the other because they're just a normal person? Should we have a two-tier justice system? Do you think we already have some justice for some and less justice for another. Please bear in mind that this isn't just about the crime but the victim(s) as well. Do we deny justice to a normal person because their perp was an important person?

RBC- Thank for starting the thread. I certainly have not criticism of you - and agree that sentencing guidelines interpreted by a judge are a part of equal protection under the Law.

You pose some interesting questions - my answer to all is an unqualified NO,

It would be nice if true, but statistics show if you are wealthy and white you will do less time than if your skin color has a darker tint. Originally Posted by bamscram

https://whiteprivilegeisntreal.org/b...me-statistics/

The myth of white privilege says blacks are arrested and incarcerated at a higher rate due to systemic racism that exists in the law enforcement and court systems. However white privilege isn’t real, and we’re going to prove that institutional racism isn’t the cause, but the breakdown in the family unit and uneducated people who make bad life choices are the real causes of the problem.

Do Blacks Commit More Violent Crimes Than Whites?
Is a black person more likely to be a criminal than a white person? According to 2016 stats from the US Census Beurua non-Hispanic whites makeup 61.3% of the population, and blacks make up 13.1% of the population. (2016 US Census results / archive)


2016 US Census by Race
If we look at the FBI statistics for violent crimes we can see that whites committed 241,063 of the 408,873 violent crimes, which is 58% of the total. So 61% of the population is committing 58% of the violent crimes, so the math lines up. (FBI Table 21 Arrests by Race and Ethnicity, 2016 / archive)


2016 FBI Violent Crime Statistics
If we take a look at the number of violent crimes committed by blacks we can see they committed 153,341 of the 408,873 violent crimes, which is 37% of the violent crimes. If blacks make up 13% of the population they should only be committing 13% of the crimes, instead, they are committing crimes almost three times as many crimes as they should be.

Is the US Criminal Justice System Guilty of Systemic Racism against Blacks?
The myth of white privilege says that the police and the court system in the United States is guilty of systemic racism and bias and unfairly arrests and prosecutes blacks. Fortunately, there is an easy way to prove this isn’t true by looking at the population and crime records of another developed first world county that doesn’t have any of the biases the US system is accused of. Looking at the ethnic breakdown of the United Kingdom (England) we can see that blacks makeup 2.8% of the population. (The ethnic population of England and Wales broken down by local authority / archive)



The UK Government doesn’t provide a table of data the way the FBI does, they only present a graph, however by looking at it you can see the crime statistics are almost an exact match for the US statistics. The top graph is a representation of the total population, and blacks are represented by the small light blue sliver. The next line represents arrests, and you can see the light blue sliver is much bigger here, almost three times as big. The next line which represents convictions and the light blue sliver representing blacks is again almost three times the size of the first line. (Statistics on Race and the Criminal Justice System 2014 / archive)


UK Crime Statistics By Race
When we eliminated the US Justice System, which is accused of giving whites privilege and having a systemic racial bias, blacks still committed crimes disproportionally higher than their percentage of the population. The disproportionate rate that crimes are being committed in the US is almost identical to the rate it is in the UK, proving there is no bias in the US Criminal Justice system.

Why Are Blacks More Likely to Become Criminals
As we discussed in our Black vs White The Breakdown in Family Values article there are many contributing factors. It starts with black pregnancies that create single-parent households, that are more likely to live in a poverty or low-income situation. This low-income situation creates an environment that produces children that have a higher rate of dropping out of school or are more likely to engage in criminal behavior. Creating a repeating cycle of low-income single parent households that remain uneducated and more likely to commit crimes in the future.

Systemic biases or institutional racism isn’t what’s creating this situation. Black men and women who are engaging in sexual activity, without using birth control, and getting pregnant are the people responsible for creating the problem. Black males who create children, don’t get married, and abandon their parental responsibilities are the people who take a bad situation and keep it from getting any better. The system isn’t to blame, the black people involved are.

Black vs White Crime Statistics Conclusion
It’s an uncomfortable truth but blacks commit crimes at nearly three times the rate that whites do.
Blacks commit 36% of the violent crime in the US even though they are only 13% of the population.
Blacks in England commit crimes at nearly three times the rate of their population rate.
The parity in black crime rates in the US and black crime rates in the UK prove that there is no systemic or institutional racial bias in the US, and that the judicial system is not unfairly targeting blacks.
There is no systemic racism in US Judicial System.
There is no racial bias that unfairly targets innocent blacks in the US Criminal system.
The cycle of black crime begins with the breakdown of family values that has 72% of black pregnancies creating low-income single parent households.
Black children growing up in single-parent low-income situations are likely to repeat this cycle unless they raise children in a married two-parent household with more stability.
White privilege isn’t creating a system that unfairly arrests and prosecutes blacks, the black parents making bad life choices are creating situations that increase the likelihood of bad outcomes happening are the ones responsible.
White privilege isn’t real and isn’t responsible for blacks committing more crimes, black adults making poor life choices are the ones responsible.



Your comment is all bullshit Ekim

Doesn't call for a lot of comments or debate. Do you believe that anyone who commits the same crime should face the same consequences? Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

I don't like the idea of hate crime legislation. However, consequences should be left to the courts to decide.

There have been a few cases that were ridiculous like the guy who got 6 months for rape.

I don't like Manafort's sentence. However, the judge made his call. I'm not discussing the politics of it. He was charged with a crime and convicted. If the judge felt that politics and not real crime drove the case, he could have tossed the case. He didn't.

The courts should have some oversite and when the public loses confidence in a judges judgement, that judge might need to be relieved.

I think the hate crime idea really picked up support when that kid is Kansas was basically tied to a tree and stoned to death for being gay a few years back.

Even if the kid wasn't gay and they murdered him in that way for some other reason, you name it, the brutality of that crime shouldn't be made less because of motive. If it was committed against someone who was not gay, that person still was subjected to a horrible and violent death that we as a society should not tolerate no matter the motive behind it.

Being in Kansas, I don't know what crime you're talking about. Unless you're talking about the Shepard murder in a whole different state. That was over a drug deal and was very brutal. The indictment is such a case should the same; first degree murder. If convicted, a competent judge can take into account the brutality, the mitigating circumstances, or the subsequent actions of the defendant.

https://whiteprivilegeisntreal.org/b...me-statistics/

The myth of white privilege says blacks are arrested and incarcerated at a higher rate due to systemic racism that exists in the law enforcement and court systems. However white privilege isn’t real, and we’re going to prove that institutional racism isn’t the cause, but the breakdown in the family unit and uneducated people who make bad life choices are the real causes of the problem.

Do Blacks Commit More Violent Crimes Than Whites?
Is a black person more likely to be a criminal than a white person? According to 2016 stats from the US Census Beurua non-Hispanic whites makeup 61.3% of the population, and blacks make up 13.1% of the population. (2016 US Census results / archive)


2016 US Census by Race
If we look at the FBI statistics for violent crimes we can see that whites committed 241,063 of the 408,873 violent crimes, which is 58% of the total. So 61% of the population is committing 58% of the violent crimes, so the math lines up. (FBI Table 21 Arrests by Race and Ethnicity, 2016 / archive)


2016 FBI Violent Crime Statistics
If we take a look at the number of violent crimes committed by blacks we can see they committed 153,341 of the 408,873 violent crimes, which is 37% of the violent crimes. If blacks make up 13% of the population they should only be committing 13% of the crimes, instead, they are committing crimes almost three times as many crimes as they should be.

Is the US Criminal Justice System Guilty of Systemic Racism against Blacks?
The myth of white privilege says that the police and the court system in the United States is guilty of systemic racism and bias and unfairly arrests and prosecutes blacks. Fortunately, there is an easy way to prove this isn’t true by looking at the population and crime records of another developed first world county that doesn’t have any of the biases the US system is accused of. Looking at the ethnic breakdown of the United Kingdom (England) we can see that blacks makeup 2.8% of the population. (The ethnic population of England and Wales broken down by local authority / archive)



The UK Government doesn’t provide a table of data the way the FBI does, they only present a graph, however by looking at it you can see the crime statistics are almost an exact match for the US statistics. The top graph is a representation of the total population, and blacks are represented by the small light blue sliver. The next line represents arrests, and you can see the light blue sliver is much bigger here, almost three times as big. The next line which represents convictions and the light blue sliver representing blacks is again almost three times the size of the first line. (Statistics on Race and the Criminal Justice System 2014 / archive)


UK Crime Statistics By Race
When we eliminated the US Justice System, which is accused of giving whites privilege and having a systemic racial bias, blacks still committed crimes disproportionally higher than their percentage of the population. The disproportionate rate that crimes are being committed in the US is almost identical to the rate it is in the UK, proving there is no bias in the US Criminal Justice system.

Why Are Blacks More Likely to Become Criminals
As we discussed in our Black vs White The Breakdown in Family Values article there are many contributing factors. It starts with black pregnancies that create single-parent households, that are more likely to live in a poverty or low-income situation. This low-income situation creates an environment that produces children that have a higher rate of dropping out of school or are more likely to engage in criminal behavior. Creating a repeating cycle of low-income single parent households that remain uneducated and more likely to commit crimes in the future.

Systemic biases or institutional racism isn’t what’s creating this situation. Black men and women who are engaging in sexual activity, without using birth control, and getting pregnant are the people responsible for creating the problem. Black males who create children, don’t get married, and abandon their parental responsibilities are the people who take a bad situation and keep it from getting any better. The system isn’t to blame, the black people involved are.

Black vs White Crime Statistics Conclusion
It’s an uncomfortable truth but blacks commit crimes at nearly three times the rate that whites do.
Blacks commit 36% of the violent crime in the US even though they are only 13% of the population.
Blacks in England commit crimes at nearly three times the rate of their population rate.
The parity in black crime rates in the US and black crime rates in the UK prove that there is no systemic or institutional racial bias in the US, and that the judicial system is not unfairly targeting blacks.
There is no systemic racism in US Judicial System.
There is no racial bias that unfairly targets innocent blacks in the US Criminal system.
The cycle of black crime begins with the breakdown of family values that has 72% of black pregnancies creating low-income single parent households.
Black children growing up in single-parent low-income situations are likely to repeat this cycle unless they raise children in a married two-parent household with more stability.
White privilege isn’t creating a system that unfairly arrests and prosecutes blacks, the black parents making bad life choices are creating situations that increase the likelihood of bad outcomes happening are the ones responsible.
White privilege isn’t real and isn’t responsible for blacks committing more crimes, black adults making poor life choices are the ones responsible.



Your comment is all bullshit Ekim

Originally Posted by Hotrod511

How would you know? Keep doing what you do best ,insults and monkey pics.


And remove head. from ass.

,

Okay, a few responses to work with. I have to point out that I never said anything about the same sentence. Mercy is the province of judges or maybe revenge. No, this about procedure mostly. Ready? If a member of an administration lies before congress and is indicted, shouldn't a member of another administration face the same indictment for same crime? Those two are about equal in responsibility. What someone high up the totem pole committing the same crime as someone low on the food chain? Do we give someone a pass because they are someone and convict the other because they're just a normal person? Should we have a two-tier justice system? Do you think we already have some justice for some and less justice for another. Please bear in mind that this isn't just about the crime but the victim(s) as well. Do we deny justice to a normal person because their perp was an important person? Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

So you need to define "justice." I had the question of what you meant by that and pointed out crime classification and sentencing guidelines. You seem to also want to include prosecutor discretion. I can go along with that.

At some point, theories come down to reality and how much a jail can hold and who we put in that jail.

For example I know a woman who was arrested and bailed out of jail. She was obviously guilty. She didn't make some pre-trial hearing she was supposed to attend. No lawyer either. The Houston courts dismissed her case because of Harvey and "judicial expediency." Yes, if you go to her case record, "judicial expediency" is actually written for the reason for dismissal.

BTW, the "socially beautiful" people aren't just given special privileges in the court system.

How would you know? Keep doing what you do best ,insults and monkey pics.


And remove head. from ass.

, Originally Posted by bamscram

That's why we need competent judges who know the law and can make rational considerations. We also need a way to remove bad, biased, or incompetent judges. As citizens we have to pay attention to bad laws and repeal them. The laws have to reflect public sentiment and the Constitution.

Hang on boy I'll get you back.