The ATF Experience

Yeah, that's me too.

Hobbying is filling in temporarily for some needs I have without really addressing them. For me, a really good ATF would probably do just enough to keep me settled down. A SB, even better. I'm pretty much right on that line.

SB's, good ones, take time to find. Hell, the SD forum is full of guys who take about 18 months in most cases to land a good one once they really commit to understanding it and doing what it takes to find one.

While I am actively seeking a SB, I will likely devote some of my resources to the provider route to keep an even keel. But hobbying as a primary method of meeting those needs is history for me at this time.

I'd love to see some provider feedback on this thread, or even a PM with your thoughts. This is co-ed discussion after all, come on girls, speak up!

Agreed. The shift (left or right) of that line and where the engagement/relationship evolved was indeed a matter of trust and understanding. I agree also about the income variation (primary or supplemental source).

I find myself at times with my own internal conflict about opting for the provider or SB route. I'm better suited for SB as I prefer a one gal approach rather than the multiple one that many hobbyists prefer.

I've had one provider who I don't see (session wise) but know outside the hobby as a lovely and caring mom (yes, many of them here are), tell me I don't belong here and I know (in my heart) she is absolutely right.

Yet still...here I am (for now) Originally Posted by SD2011

Duplicate post deleted.

If I were to consider a spectrum, it would be something like this:

GF/Spouse---FWB----SB--|--ATF/UTR---Provider

The ATF can bleed over into SB territory. But I put a divider in there to demarcate one key difference. And that is the primary source of income. There's a ton of discussion about the differences between SB's and Providers and for me, this is the where it really lies.

Sex workers (Providers, Strippers, Gold Diggers, "Kept Women", etc.) have some sort of sex-related work as their primary income. For them, time=money. Any time a relationship is based on those factors, it is on one side.

On the other side time and money are not directly related and sex work is NOT the primary source of income. While I may, as a SD, replace the financial equivalent of a part-time job, pay bills, or provide other support, those things are done to enable ither factors of the relationship.

BTW, just because a sex worker tries to use a label from on side, SB being most common, it does NOT mean she is not a sex worker. It all depends on the PRIMARY source of income/support.

In all relationships, there is always some sort of resource sharing or support that occurs. Thus the trusim that you always pay for pussy. It's a question of how you want to pay for it and what experience you are seeking.

Another key difference that seems to occur on that boundary is the influence you can have on her personal life. On the left, there is mentoring, guidance and you do tend to effect some sort of positive and permanent change in a girl's life. On the right, it is much more rare. A common thought process of the girl on the right is that she has to learn from making her own mistakes, that she wants to try for herself.

On the left, its more a case of being open to learning from the experience of others.

I suspect it boils down to an issue of trust. On the left, there have been positive male influences and the girl is able to develop healthy trust bonds with men. On the right, there are definite issues with trusting men and people in general. There are also substantial issues with choices about who they trust. Girls on the right tend to trust the wrong types of people and that feeds a never-ending cycle of desperate attempts to trust, betrayal, anger and distrust. When a guy happens in their life that they could trust, they often fail to do so as they are always waiting for the betrayal. If it doesn't come, then they make choices that damage the relationship and manufacture the betrayal themselves.

This is also an area that I sometimes struggle with myself. It's particularly exacerbated by my experience the last few years being involved in a bad situation, but the underlying mechanisms have always been there. For me, key factors have been much more careful selection of who I associate with and a much greater willingness to terminate relationships and associations when I start detecting red flags, and not finding ways to excuse them.

Trust is an issue that simply takes time and experience with a person to develop. My best friend has free reign to come to my house at any time. But we've been through a lot and never once have we had any breach of trust. Not one.

Conflicting with building of that trust is the immediate demands of a situation. A person is fighting financial issues, needs a lot of help right away and does not have the resources to return the favor. It's very hard to distinguish this from the person who is simply going to take whatever they can get and leave you high and dry.

The only resolution I can come up with is to give some trust, and look for some relatively immediate effort toward keeping things even. Then a little more. And I do let people know when they must step up and do something before I have to assume the negative. In the end, inability or unwillingness to keep things fair between us have the same effect on me and are a moot point. Originally Posted by Rehke

+1 on your spectrum!

This is a very interesting post. Thank you for your thoughts on ATFs.

I think it all starts with respect and treating a person like a person. Treating a man like he's a man, not an ATM or treating a lady like a lady.