Respectfully, I disagree with AngelOK and Tiffany re: cheating. cpi3000 said it best "Anything you cannot tell your wife about actual sex with others is cheating."
Angel, I agree that logically there should be no difference to my wife between my going out to get a haircut and my going out to get a blowjob. But humans are not 100% logical, we are also emotional and there is no changing that. I won't form an emotional attachment to a provider and the provider won't form an emotional attachment to me, but my wife does have a fairly strong emotional attachment to me, one of which I am acutely aware. My knowledge of her emotional bond to me can't be ignored when considering my choice of actions.
I'll probably take the course advised by TexTushHog.
Thanks everyone!
- NaughtyButNice
- 09-14-2010, 08:31 AM
- Iceman
- 09-14-2010, 08:47 AM
I don't believe in cheating, so I would say either b or c depending on what's stronger. Your need for sexual fulfillment, or your love for your wife.
- SneakyCancer
- 09-14-2010, 10:03 AM
cp13000, said it all. Well put....but sound advice. I used to be a teller to....but weeks and months and years of dealing with the fact that I told because of guilt and ethical values, got me nowhere. I then often fell victim of accusation before evidence. Now, realizing its better to keep quiet, I play here and they never know because its all fictitious anyway. (my story and Im sticking to it)
I commend your guts and glory. Your love sounds greater than your hobby desire....make it work dude. Don't tear up your marriage for a blowjob especially if she allows you to eat at the Y. There is potential to open the flood gates of joy so continue to work it and talk to her and ease her mind about the head action.
I dont understand the double standard for some women. The ones that dont do or hate blow jobs typically receive daty and like it. Why not return the favor? 68+1 is crap.
I commend your guts and glory. Your love sounds greater than your hobby desire....make it work dude. Don't tear up your marriage for a blowjob especially if she allows you to eat at the Y. There is potential to open the flood gates of joy so continue to work it and talk to her and ease her mind about the head action.
I dont understand the double standard for some women. The ones that dont do or hate blow jobs typically receive daty and like it. Why not return the favor? 68+1 is crap.
- Laurentius
- 09-14-2010, 12:00 PM
The original post presumes the status quo is immutable. That is, that the poster's sex life will continue to be unsatisfactory and that nothing can change that.
That MAY be the case, but it seems to me that it would be worthwhile, as your wife at least DOES have sex, to seek improvement.
There could be a million fundamental reasons for your wife's sexual disinterest. It could be that she feels she is taken advantage of in some way by your failing to do certain chores at home; or her perception of your failure to meet certain of her emotional needs.
One mistake made by men and women alike is the presumption that their needs are the same as their partner's needs; and then set about meeting the partner's needs based on that presumption. In so doing, most often, critical needs are not met.
Once a partner fails to have his/her needs met; s/he often fails to fully meet the needs of the other partner. This creates a cycle of progressively unmet needs for both; ultimately resulting in a poor-quality relationship.
Of course, there are also fundamental evolutionary sex issues at work as well.
Your wife is at an age where her sex drive should be at its peak. About equal to what yours was at 18-21. In other words, at her age, she should be a sexual dynamo.
BUT -- that sexual dynamism in women is almost NEVER oriented toward the current mate after a couple of years. After a couple of years, in my experience anyway, most women are absolutely convinced that they have "settled" for less than they should have in a man. So that sexual dynamism is reserved for what she would consider a better man. Your replacement.
Don't laugh. If we consider that men and women are equally moral/immoral beings, there is a REASON why, once no-fault divorce became the law of the land, women file for divorce twice as often as men. The bird in the hand (you) becomes far less attractive than the bird in the bush (a hypothetical or perhaps even real "superior" man).
In reality, this seldom works as well in the woman's favor as she anticipates. Once she is in her late 30's or greater her value in the mating market is nowhere near as high as it was when she snagged the guy she just dumped. So her subsequent pairings, on average (though there are exceptions) tend to be with even less valuable men than the one she dumped.
The reason I am going into this is that SOMETIMES, through solid therapy based upon driving reality home, a woman in this circumstance will realize that her husband really IS the best available man for her; and that if she were to lose him, her subsequent choices of available men would be inferior to what she already has. With this realization, she will employ explicit processing to override the evolutionary sex programming and redirect those energies toward keeping her husband.
Now, IF you can keep it in your pants for a year or two, I will tell you how I dealt with a similar circumstance with wife #1 in order to turn the frigid queen into a sex goddess on a regular basis.
I won't go into all the stories about wife #1. She was a real piece of work and I didn't know any better. I'll just focus on the immediate issue and how I dealt with it effectively albeit manipulatively.
About 3-4 years after marriage wife #1 hit a sexual malaise. She was uninterested in sex to speak of and when it happened it wasn't very good. In fact she made me feel like she was so unwilling that the whole idea of sex with her was a turnoff so I stopped approaching. Meanwhile, I was an utterly exemplary husband. The girl didn't even have to pump her own gas, shop for groceries or go without anything.
Now, HERE is a thing about evolutionary sexual behaviors you might not know.
My wife's malaise was essentially because she saw me as conquored territory and completely unavailable to other females. As there was no competition for my affection, she acted like any legally protected monopoly by delivering the least on meeting my needs while demanding the most payment.
Now, I never cheated on her. But I shook things up in a few ways to make it really clear to her that on any given day I COULD get laid elsewhere. And I learned how to do it by reading an article in a women's magazine about how to tell if your hubby is having an affair.
I'm a pretty non-superficial person. Sort of a scientist type. I never cared about wardrbe and stuff. So I had a lady come help me pick out a new wardrobe that would be seen as more attractive. (Wives sometimes dress their husbands frumpily.) The wife wanted to know why I was doing it, and I just said I needed to dress for success.
Meanwhile, I adopted the TRAPPINGS of an affair. Not an actual affair, but the trappings. I kept a little box with my spare tire that included a couple of different colors of lipstick and a couple of really sexy-smelling perfumes. Every so often then there would be the telltale smudge of lipstick or a faint hint of perfume about me. She'd ask what it was, and I'd just say I had hugged some innocuous older lady at work or something.
I also bought a couple of standard female clothing items -- scarfs for example.
When she'd get in my car to go somewhere with me, sometimes there would be a nice lady's scarf or hat in the backseat. Or there would be a pack of virginia slims in the console. I'd just explain that the receptionist had needed a ride to the post office.
I made a point of having to work late once in a while, and not answering my phone until just before I left for home. (I was in my boss's office and couldn't answer.)
Then I arranged for a confederate to make the classic "hang-up" phone call once every couple of weeks. The phone would ring, she'd answer, and then it would go "click."
Perhaps the coup de grace was the fact that I've never had a shortage of actual affair invitations. I had always just politely declined and never mentioned them to my wife as I didn't want her to feel insecure. But now I wanted her to feel insecure; so I would share them with her and ask her advice on how to handle them so that everything would still go smoothly with the ladies in a work context etc. Some ladies would issue their invitations to lunch, etc. via email, so I'd bring them to her.
Meanwhile, I absolutely ignored her sexually. When she started to make tentative invitations I pretended not to notice. When she made more overt invitations I was either tired or had a headache. But, knowing the propensity of men having affairs to overcompensate, I made sure to be extra nice to her in all other respects.
Pretty soon she was absolutely out of her mind. The key here is there was no ACTUAL affair; because she turned over everything looking for it. She watched bank accounts, phone records -- everything -- looking for the clues. If there had been an actual affair no way could it have escaped her scrutiny by now.
Eventually it got to the point where she would practically rip my clothes off when I walked in the door. Really. She would fuck me every day before I left for work and every day when I got home. Sometimes she'd nail me again at bed time. Her goal was to make sure I was so sexually sated that other invitations wouldn't look attractive.
She also started meeting me for lunch to give me a quickie BJ every so often.
Later on we divorced for other reasons; but the sex problem was most assuredly solved.
Generally, I wouldn't manipulate a woman that way. But she was quite manipulative in her own ways, which led me to consider such an approach.
My point here is simply that the evolutionary drives that work against you can also be made to work for you by altering certain aspects of the environment.
So I've given you three different approaches to getting blown at home.
1. Figure out which basic emotional needs of hers aren't being met, and meet them.
2. Use therapy to lead her to comprehend that good sex is in her own self-interest
3. Use knowledge of evolutionary drives to manipulate the shit out of her.
Of course, other options exist. Just giving these for consideration.
That MAY be the case, but it seems to me that it would be worthwhile, as your wife at least DOES have sex, to seek improvement.
There could be a million fundamental reasons for your wife's sexual disinterest. It could be that she feels she is taken advantage of in some way by your failing to do certain chores at home; or her perception of your failure to meet certain of her emotional needs.
One mistake made by men and women alike is the presumption that their needs are the same as their partner's needs; and then set about meeting the partner's needs based on that presumption. In so doing, most often, critical needs are not met.
Once a partner fails to have his/her needs met; s/he often fails to fully meet the needs of the other partner. This creates a cycle of progressively unmet needs for both; ultimately resulting in a poor-quality relationship.
Of course, there are also fundamental evolutionary sex issues at work as well.
Your wife is at an age where her sex drive should be at its peak. About equal to what yours was at 18-21. In other words, at her age, she should be a sexual dynamo.
BUT -- that sexual dynamism in women is almost NEVER oriented toward the current mate after a couple of years. After a couple of years, in my experience anyway, most women are absolutely convinced that they have "settled" for less than they should have in a man. So that sexual dynamism is reserved for what she would consider a better man. Your replacement.
Don't laugh. If we consider that men and women are equally moral/immoral beings, there is a REASON why, once no-fault divorce became the law of the land, women file for divorce twice as often as men. The bird in the hand (you) becomes far less attractive than the bird in the bush (a hypothetical or perhaps even real "superior" man).
In reality, this seldom works as well in the woman's favor as she anticipates. Once she is in her late 30's or greater her value in the mating market is nowhere near as high as it was when she snagged the guy she just dumped. So her subsequent pairings, on average (though there are exceptions) tend to be with even less valuable men than the one she dumped.
The reason I am going into this is that SOMETIMES, through solid therapy based upon driving reality home, a woman in this circumstance will realize that her husband really IS the best available man for her; and that if she were to lose him, her subsequent choices of available men would be inferior to what she already has. With this realization, she will employ explicit processing to override the evolutionary sex programming and redirect those energies toward keeping her husband.
Now, IF you can keep it in your pants for a year or two, I will tell you how I dealt with a similar circumstance with wife #1 in order to turn the frigid queen into a sex goddess on a regular basis.
I won't go into all the stories about wife #1. She was a real piece of work and I didn't know any better. I'll just focus on the immediate issue and how I dealt with it effectively albeit manipulatively.
About 3-4 years after marriage wife #1 hit a sexual malaise. She was uninterested in sex to speak of and when it happened it wasn't very good. In fact she made me feel like she was so unwilling that the whole idea of sex with her was a turnoff so I stopped approaching. Meanwhile, I was an utterly exemplary husband. The girl didn't even have to pump her own gas, shop for groceries or go without anything.
Now, HERE is a thing about evolutionary sexual behaviors you might not know.
My wife's malaise was essentially because she saw me as conquored territory and completely unavailable to other females. As there was no competition for my affection, she acted like any legally protected monopoly by delivering the least on meeting my needs while demanding the most payment.
Now, I never cheated on her. But I shook things up in a few ways to make it really clear to her that on any given day I COULD get laid elsewhere. And I learned how to do it by reading an article in a women's magazine about how to tell if your hubby is having an affair.
I'm a pretty non-superficial person. Sort of a scientist type. I never cared about wardrbe and stuff. So I had a lady come help me pick out a new wardrobe that would be seen as more attractive. (Wives sometimes dress their husbands frumpily.) The wife wanted to know why I was doing it, and I just said I needed to dress for success.
Meanwhile, I adopted the TRAPPINGS of an affair. Not an actual affair, but the trappings. I kept a little box with my spare tire that included a couple of different colors of lipstick and a couple of really sexy-smelling perfumes. Every so often then there would be the telltale smudge of lipstick or a faint hint of perfume about me. She'd ask what it was, and I'd just say I had hugged some innocuous older lady at work or something.
I also bought a couple of standard female clothing items -- scarfs for example.
When she'd get in my car to go somewhere with me, sometimes there would be a nice lady's scarf or hat in the backseat. Or there would be a pack of virginia slims in the console. I'd just explain that the receptionist had needed a ride to the post office.
I made a point of having to work late once in a while, and not answering my phone until just before I left for home. (I was in my boss's office and couldn't answer.)
Then I arranged for a confederate to make the classic "hang-up" phone call once every couple of weeks. The phone would ring, she'd answer, and then it would go "click."
Perhaps the coup de grace was the fact that I've never had a shortage of actual affair invitations. I had always just politely declined and never mentioned them to my wife as I didn't want her to feel insecure. But now I wanted her to feel insecure; so I would share them with her and ask her advice on how to handle them so that everything would still go smoothly with the ladies in a work context etc. Some ladies would issue their invitations to lunch, etc. via email, so I'd bring them to her.
Meanwhile, I absolutely ignored her sexually. When she started to make tentative invitations I pretended not to notice. When she made more overt invitations I was either tired or had a headache. But, knowing the propensity of men having affairs to overcompensate, I made sure to be extra nice to her in all other respects.
Pretty soon she was absolutely out of her mind. The key here is there was no ACTUAL affair; because she turned over everything looking for it. She watched bank accounts, phone records -- everything -- looking for the clues. If there had been an actual affair no way could it have escaped her scrutiny by now.
Eventually it got to the point where she would practically rip my clothes off when I walked in the door. Really. She would fuck me every day before I left for work and every day when I got home. Sometimes she'd nail me again at bed time. Her goal was to make sure I was so sexually sated that other invitations wouldn't look attractive.
She also started meeting me for lunch to give me a quickie BJ every so often.
Later on we divorced for other reasons; but the sex problem was most assuredly solved.
Generally, I wouldn't manipulate a woman that way. But she was quite manipulative in her own ways, which led me to consider such an approach.
My point here is simply that the evolutionary drives that work against you can also be made to work for you by altering certain aspects of the environment.
So I've given you three different approaches to getting blown at home.
1. Figure out which basic emotional needs of hers aren't being met, and meet them.
2. Use therapy to lead her to comprehend that good sex is in her own self-interest
3. Use knowledge of evolutionary drives to manipulate the shit out of her.
Of course, other options exist. Just giving these for consideration.
- Cpalmson
- 09-14-2010, 12:17 PM
You don't need marriage counseling b/c it sounds like everything else between the 2 of you is fine.
What was your wife's upbringing as a child? Did she come from an overly religious family? You indicated while dating that she did do other things in bed, but has now stopped. She might be suffering guilt herself. She may have been taught over many years that certain activities (even between husband and wife) are "dirty". She may have went along with you prior to marriage out of fear of losing your relationship. Once married, she reverted to her prior "programming". I maybe completely off base b/c I don't know you, but I've seen this behavior before.
If you want to be with her and not suffer the guilt by seeing providers, I recommend that you seek out a sex therapist for the both of you. These are trained doctors that help couples with intimacy issues.
Finally, I don't care what some say here, but seeing a provider is cheating. It can be rationalized ad naseum, but our social mores considers sex with a provider to be cheating. Besides the dictates of our society, if you conscience is guilty, it is cheating by your own personal standards.
What was your wife's upbringing as a child? Did she come from an overly religious family? You indicated while dating that she did do other things in bed, but has now stopped. She might be suffering guilt herself. She may have been taught over many years that certain activities (even between husband and wife) are "dirty". She may have went along with you prior to marriage out of fear of losing your relationship. Once married, she reverted to her prior "programming". I maybe completely off base b/c I don't know you, but I've seen this behavior before.
If you want to be with her and not suffer the guilt by seeing providers, I recommend that you seek out a sex therapist for the both of you. These are trained doctors that help couples with intimacy issues.
Finally, I don't care what some say here, but seeing a provider is cheating. It can be rationalized ad naseum, but our social mores considers sex with a provider to be cheating. Besides the dictates of our society, if you conscience is guilty, it is cheating by your own personal standards.
- NaughtyButNice
- 09-14-2010, 12:24 PM
@Laurentius
Wow. That's impressive. You should teach classes in this shit. Thanks so much for your insight.
I'll back up what you said with an observation... when we first started dating I denied her sex for about a month. The girl was crazy for it. I allowed her to blow me (and I reciprocated) but no intercourse. I did this with everyone I dated. It let me determine how good (or bad) she was at oral before doing the deed. Some of them got disqualified early in the process as a result, but I digress.
This occurred to me recently so I decided I would try to withhold sex from her for a few weeks. Literally minuted after I quietly decided this to myself, I crawled into bed with her and she jumped me and we fucked passionately like we haven't in a long while. (But still no oral.)
So, the challenge for me now is how to I manipulate her into giving me oral without it seeming vindictive, ie I don't want it to feel like "you deny me oral so I am going to deny you something you want."
Some options:
(1) Give all the sex she wants but deny her the pleasure of getting me off with her pussy. She almost always cums first so this is doable. I can finish the job later when she's not around. She has told me that it's important to her to get me off so this could work.
(2) Give her all the oral she wants, but deny her full on sex until she goes down on me. That seems more vindictive than option #1.
(3) Drop 30 pounds, dress better even when working from home and pursue her as though we are still dating.
(4) Get her interested in watching porn again. (She used to enjoy watching nasty porn with me back when we dated.) Perhaps seeing another girl give head would provide some motivation. This feels like I'm grasping at straws now.
(5) Some other option that someone wiser than me might suggest here.
BTW... I do hear your points about your #1 and 2 suggestions... will consider those as well.
Wow. That's impressive. You should teach classes in this shit. Thanks so much for your insight.
I'll back up what you said with an observation... when we first started dating I denied her sex for about a month. The girl was crazy for it. I allowed her to blow me (and I reciprocated) but no intercourse. I did this with everyone I dated. It let me determine how good (or bad) she was at oral before doing the deed. Some of them got disqualified early in the process as a result, but I digress.
This occurred to me recently so I decided I would try to withhold sex from her for a few weeks. Literally minuted after I quietly decided this to myself, I crawled into bed with her and she jumped me and we fucked passionately like we haven't in a long while. (But still no oral.)
So, the challenge for me now is how to I manipulate her into giving me oral without it seeming vindictive, ie I don't want it to feel like "you deny me oral so I am going to deny you something you want."
Some options:
(1) Give all the sex she wants but deny her the pleasure of getting me off with her pussy. She almost always cums first so this is doable. I can finish the job later when she's not around. She has told me that it's important to her to get me off so this could work.
(2) Give her all the oral she wants, but deny her full on sex until she goes down on me. That seems more vindictive than option #1.
(3) Drop 30 pounds, dress better even when working from home and pursue her as though we are still dating.
(4) Get her interested in watching porn again. (She used to enjoy watching nasty porn with me back when we dated.) Perhaps seeing another girl give head would provide some motivation. This feels like I'm grasping at straws now.
(5) Some other option that someone wiser than me might suggest here.
BTW... I do hear your points about your #1 and 2 suggestions... will consider those as well.
- gnadfly
- 09-14-2010, 01:23 PM
OK, did she EVER give you head? Your dating comment in the OP leaves it a bit fuzzy. If so, how often and ever to completion? My experience is woman who don't give head or just 'cursory' head just won't change after they reach thirty. I'm assuming she gave little, if any head during your relationship...
Why did you marry this woman? She obviously was not fulfilling a secondary need nor was she making a very good income. I hope she's super hot. You further complicated it by not protecting yourself by not signing a prenup and then putting her name on the deed. You purposefully 'locked' yourself with this woman then cheated on her and told her?
This is simple: You like drama. Probably guilt too. More than blow jobs.
There are no more women 'like our grandmothers.' She saw you coming but not by an up close POV.
Why did you marry this woman? She obviously was not fulfilling a secondary need nor was she making a very good income. I hope she's super hot. You further complicated it by not protecting yourself by not signing a prenup and then putting her name on the deed. You purposefully 'locked' yourself with this woman then cheated on her and told her?
This is simple: You like drama. Probably guilt too. More than blow jobs.
There are no more women 'like our grandmothers.' She saw you coming but not by an up close POV.
- Laurentius
- 09-14-2010, 01:30 PM
@Laurentius
Wow. That's impressive. You should teach classes in this shit. Thanks so much for your insight.
I'll back up what you said with an observation... when we first started dating I denied her sex for about a month. The girl was crazy for it. I allowed her to blow me (and I reciprocated) but no intercourse. I did this with everyone I dated. It let me determine how good (or bad) she was at oral before doing the deed. Some of them got disqualified early in the process as a result, but I digress.
This occurred to me recently so I decided I would try to withhold sex from her for a few weeks. Literally minuted after I quietly decided this to myself, I crawled into bed with her and she jumped me and we fucked passionately like we haven't in a long while. (But still no oral.)
So, the challenge for me now is how to I manipulate her into giving me oral without it seeming vindictive, ie I don't want it to feel like "you deny me oral so I am going to deny you something you want."
Some options:
(1) Give all the sex she wants but deny her the pleasure of getting me off with her pussy. She almost always cums first so this is doable. I can finish the job later when she's not around. She has told me that it's important to her to get me off so this could work.
(2) Give her all the oral she wants, but deny her full on sex until she goes down on me. That seems more vindictive than option #1.
(3) Drop 30 pounds, dress better even when working from home and pursue her as though we are still dating.
(4) Get her interested in watching porn again. (She used to enjoy watching nasty porn with me back when we dated.) Perhaps seeing another girl give head would provide some motivation. This feels like I'm grasping at straws now.
(5) Some other option that someone wiser than me might suggest here.
BTW... I do hear your points about your #1 and 2 suggestions... will consider those as well. Originally Posted by NaughtyButNice
I'm a big fan of #3. If all else fails, try paleo diet.
You also might drop her a hint by hiding a copy of Violet Blue's "The Ultimate Guide to Fellatio" in her lingerie drawer where she'll find it with a gift certificate for a just-for-her spa and a nice card that says something like "It would mean so much to me if you'd consider this."
Sometimes we guys are really hesitant about letting the women in our lives know how important something is to us. The reason is because we feel admitting the need makes us appear weak.
I admit it is a fine line. Stating a need without simultaneously appearing weak can be difficult; but vulnerability is not the same as weakness and sharing vulnerability when one is otherwise strong can build intimacy.
Also, putting forth your statement of need (i.e. for fellatio) in such a way that you are addressing one of hers (i.e. gift certificate for something she'd really appreciate) shows you aren't expecting a free lunch.
Sometimes these cycles of unmet needs can be broken.
:-)
- NaughtyButNice
- 09-14-2010, 07:43 PM
@gnadfly
> OK, did she EVER give you head? Your dating comment in the OP leaves it a bit fuzzy.
She gave me plenty of head when we were dating. We watched porn together, I would tie her down, spank her, eat her out, fuck her pussy with a toy while I fucked her in the ass. It was awesome.
That being said, she wasn't as sex crazed as some of the other girls I dated (like the one who blew me every single day we were together), but those girls all turned out to be nuts. This one seemed (and generally is) reasonable and easy to live with.
> Why did you marry this woman?
Because I love her and I don't believe in "perfect". I decided that her strengths outweighed her weaknesses. At the time I did that math I didn't realize that the number of blowjobs I would experience after the wedding would be equal to the number of Iraqi WMDs recovered during George Bush's Awesome Middle Eastern Adventure.
All that being said... thanks again everyone for the input and advice.
> OK, did she EVER give you head? Your dating comment in the OP leaves it a bit fuzzy.
She gave me plenty of head when we were dating. We watched porn together, I would tie her down, spank her, eat her out, fuck her pussy with a toy while I fucked her in the ass. It was awesome.
That being said, she wasn't as sex crazed as some of the other girls I dated (like the one who blew me every single day we were together), but those girls all turned out to be nuts. This one seemed (and generally is) reasonable and easy to live with.
> Why did you marry this woman?
Because I love her and I don't believe in "perfect". I decided that her strengths outweighed her weaknesses. At the time I did that math I didn't realize that the number of blowjobs I would experience after the wedding would be equal to the number of Iraqi WMDs recovered during George Bush's Awesome Middle Eastern Adventure.
All that being said... thanks again everyone for the input and advice.
- Jake2.1
- 09-14-2010, 07:55 PM
Ever heard the old statement.
If you took a jar and put a penny in it every time you have sex in the first 5 years of marriage and then start taking one out every time after that. You will never empty the jar.
I would add to it . . . "unless you start hobbying."
If you took a jar and put a penny in it every time you have sex in the first 5 years of marriage and then start taking one out every time after that. You will never empty the jar.
I would add to it . . . "unless you start hobbying."
- Maggie McNeill
- 09-14-2010, 08:43 PM
Yes, but that's in your mind. Men tend to be more concerned with physical infidelity and women with emotional infidelity; I've known lots of women who don't care whether their husbands "hobby" unless they can't afford it, and I've even been hired for their husbands by a number of them. Admittedly, you know your wife and I don't, but it seems to me you're projecting your concern with mere physical activity onto her.
I tell you this three times: If I thought for one second that my providing to married men was immoral, I wouldn't be doing it. Period. Not for money or love or any other reason short of saving my life or that of someone I love.
Of course, my actions are guided by my morality and yours must be guided by yours; God speaks to each of us in a different voice. But if you think the marriage can be saved, why did you make this post in the first place? I mean, look at your title; that doesn't seem to me like something written by a hopeful man.
I tell you this three times: If I thought for one second that my providing to married men was immoral, I wouldn't be doing it. Period. Not for money or love or any other reason short of saving my life or that of someone I love.
Of course, my actions are guided by my morality and yours must be guided by yours; God speaks to each of us in a different voice. But if you think the marriage can be saved, why did you make this post in the first place? I mean, look at your title; that doesn't seem to me like something written by a hopeful man.
Respectfully, I disagree with AngelOK and Tiffany re: cheating. cpi3000 said it best "Anything you cannot tell your wife about actual sex with others is cheating."
Angel, I agree that logically there should be no difference to my wife between my going out to get a haircut and my going out to get a blowjob. But humans are not 100% logical, we are also emotional and there is no changing that. I won't form an emotional attachment to a provider and the provider won't form an emotional attachment to me, but my wife does have a fairly strong emotional attachment to me, one of which I am acutely aware. My knowledge of her emotional bond to me can't be ignored when considering my choice of actions.
I'll probably take the course advised by TexTushHog.
Thanks everyone! Originally Posted by NaughtyButNice
- Guest030911
- 09-15-2010, 12:37 AM
Angel, I have seen your the perspective you talk about with some couples. However, I think most mainstreamed women think of it as cheating. I think most of the gents here would back me up that even looking at porn movies or Internet porn would get them in trouble at home. Sad, but true. Amrica is the most sexually repressed county of the world.
I agree that there is a difference in emotional cheating and physical cheating. Once you lost their heart and their belief in you and do not feel special anymore, it is over.
I am not saying that the hobby cannot be good "therapy", but it has more consequences for the married man. I thank you ladies for the kindness and the special skills it takes to rebuild a mans confidence in himself. Many of you are wonderful providers of more than just some physical fun.
If my wife hadn't died, I would probably still be leading Men's bible studies taking out the trash when I left in the mornings. Men are easy. Give them good uninhibited sex and make them sandwiches and we will do anything.
Just my observations,
cpi
I agree that there is a difference in emotional cheating and physical cheating. Once you lost their heart and their belief in you and do not feel special anymore, it is over.
I am not saying that the hobby cannot be good "therapy", but it has more consequences for the married man. I thank you ladies for the kindness and the special skills it takes to rebuild a mans confidence in himself. Many of you are wonderful providers of more than just some physical fun.
If my wife hadn't died, I would probably still be leading Men's bible studies taking out the trash when I left in the mornings. Men are easy. Give them good uninhibited sex and make them sandwiches and we will do anything.
Just my observations,
cpi
- ICEY_CAKEZ6969
- 09-15-2010, 12:49 AM
A is the one...
- TexTushHog
- 09-15-2010, 01:52 AM
Ever heard the old statement.In the version of the story I head the first period is the first year of marriage.
If you took a jar and put a penny in it every time you have sex in the first 5 years of marriage and then start taking one out every time after that. You will never empty the jar.
I would add to it . . . "unless you start hobbying." Originally Posted by Jake2.1
And if you don't think of it as cheating, get your ass to a family law court and see just how warped your sense of what cheating is.
- Likinikki
- 09-15-2010, 04:15 AM
Originally Posted by AngelOKI don't completely agree with this statement. Just because we're providers doesn't make us superhumans. If you're saying that providers will not get attached "emotionally" I have to disagree with you. Now, "should they?" of course not...and most providers don't...but there are many who do. I know of some providers who have turned psycho on their clients. Let's not get confused about the word "cheating" and its definition.
Tiffany is TOTALLY spot on here! Seeing providers is not cheating; they will not get involved with you emotionally, compete for your wife's affection, demand you divorce her or otherwise cause her social or emotional problems. We provide a vital social function, which is why we used to be a kind of priestess (working out of the templinges even) up until about 2500 years ago.
Anytime a married man/woman goes outside their marriage for sex...that's CHEATING...there's no clause in that definition! (lol) If you were to take a poll of married women and ask them what they considered as cheating...what do you suppose the majority answer would be?
My advice to you Mr. NaughtyButNice is to take a break from the hobby...work on fixing the damage...if it's possible. Since you've already confessed to your wife...you've pretty much screwed yourself and damaged her trust...but, only you know your wife and her personality. Good-luck to you and hope things get better for you both!