It is Time To Vote: Think It Over First!

ICU, Hedonist and reddog -- you all made some very good posts in this thread. You others, not so much. Actually I really don't know what Trixie said because I'm ignoring his lame ass. I'd be very surprised if it was any different than all the other vile crap he constantly posts.

Anyway, back to what you other 3 said, neither party is like it used to be. The Republican party has gone through some significant changes too. Especially in the last 4 years.

Bipartisan support for bills used to be somewhat common. Not anymore. Legislators used to vote what their mind and conscience told them. Not anymore. Now they blindly follow and vote how their party leaders tell to vote. So now we get prolonged government shutdowns, constant flip flopping on major issues like health care, government regulations climate changes etc. depending on which side is in power.

These are not good things at all. I hope we soon return to a time where e legislators feel free to vote their conscience instead of just doing as they are told to do.

ICU, Hedonist and reddog -- you all made some very good posts in this thread. You others, not so much. Actually I really don't know what Trixie said because I'm ignoring his lame ass. I'd be very surprised if it was any different than all the other vile crap he constantly posts.

Anyway, back to what you other 3 said, neither party is like it used to be. The Republican party has gone through some significant changes too. Especially in the last 4 years.

Bipartisan support for bills used to be somewhat common. Not anymore. Legislators used to vote what their mind and conscience told them. Not anymore. Now they blindly follow and vote how their party leaders tell to vote. So now we get prolonged government shutdowns, constant flip flopping on major issues like health care, government regulations climate changes etc. depending on which side is in power.

These are not good things at all. I hope we soon return to a time where e legislators feel free to vote their conscience instead of just doing as they are told to do. Originally Posted by Jam3768

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^

Got his ass handed to him several times!
bahahahahahhahahahhahahhahahah a

Takes his little marbles and went home lolling

Asking a dim to "think" is Ironic!

... I hope we soon return to a time where e legislators feel free to vote their conscience instead of just doing as they are told to do. Originally Posted by Jam3768

Once you transform that thought into it's correct incarnation, you might make it across the finish line as a champion.

Let me tweak it for ya, just a tad. Try this incarnation on for size:

I hope we soon return to a time where legislators feel free to vote their conscience 'for the benefit of We The People' instead of just doing as they are told 'paid' to do 'by special interest groups and lining their own pockets at the expense of American and it's citizens'.


3 min

Let's all vote for the man who promotes raising taxes
Let's vote for the man who is elderly and tired
Let's vote for a politician
Let's vote for another attorney
Let's vote for a man who chooses his running mate based on skin color
Good one

Makes sense. Got it, you forgot to ad I vote for him I'm a Blithering idiot

Let's all vote for the man who promotes raising taxes

Instead, let's vote for the billionaire man who seems be ok with the middle class paying taxes at a higher percent of gross income thanks to his still disputed "deductions".

Let's vote for the man who is elderly and tired

Can't believe this was even posited as an argument. On second thought another example of un-thinking dogma spewing. Trump also is old, seems tired lately, and has always been tiresome.

Let's vote for a politician

I think that is a great idea. Perhaps we could get back to some sort of collaborative relationship within this country, not to mention relationships with our world allies; Putin is not among that group. Mr. Trump claims to be a great businessman. Even if true, it doesn't mean he is a great world leader. When I need an electrician, I don't call a plumber.

Let's vote for another attorney

Not a fan of them either, but at least they know something about the law and constitution. Most are also versed in logic and proper behavior in legal endeavors.

Let's vote for a man who chooses his running mate based on skin color

This one is not worthy of comment. Professional credentials and governing experience of the running mate referenced outweigh those of Mr. Trump. Reference plumber vs electrician above.

I've thought it over and while Trump would not be my first or even second choice ( at this point ), the policy differences between the two parties, is as stark and far apart as I have ever seen in my lifetime and this nominating process in the Senate that we are witnessing points this out rather remarkably. Both sides have decided that the "other side" is not merely a political opponent, but the enemy of Democracy and must not only be defeated at the polls, in the case of Democrats towards Republicans, but must be fired from their jobs and their children expressing the views of their Republican parents, must be ostracized and bullied until they are run out of school.


So I have completely given up on who the person is that represents one of the only two parties viable to us and have decided that I will concentrate on the policies each party has put forth as their objective in the coming years.


We just went through 4 years of the Democrats and the media, telling us that Trump is bad, corrupt and will destroy our Democracy because he speaks against a free press, tries to subvert the free press.


And now remarkably, stunningly on the virtual eve of the election, the two biggest social media platforms, where it is reported that maybe as much as 85% of millennials get their news, has decided that they will suppress any news that might hurt Joe Biden whether it is true or not. A story reported in the 4th largest daily market for newspapers on the possible corruption of Joe Biden has been banned not only from appearing as a news article, but you can not even discuss with your friends that you have heard this story.


This is fucking un-believable. You're going to tell someone on Facebook or Twitter what news you can or can not discuss with a friend?


Anybody remember this happening when the possible corruption of Trump was the topic of conversation, allegations not yet proven as the excuse is given by Facebook and Twitter why they won't allow any discussion of Joe Biden and possible corruption because there is no "proof" in their opinion so you will not be allowed to know about it and if you do know about it, may not discuss it on their platform?


Remarkable and stunning doesn't even begin to explain this development. Facebook and Twitter, in their attempt to help Joe Biden, has just opened a Pandora's box of problems for themselves going forward and has now elevated this story to the biggest story of the day as often happens when any media tries to suppress a story.


Notice that the Biden people are not denying outright that Biden never talked to a representative at Burisma, ( as one of our members said, so what ) only that they can find no such notation in his daily calendar of meetings. Uh, Duh! Why would such a meeting be put on his official calendar? If Biden didn't take this meeting, let him say say just like Trump and Don Jr. were forced to address whether they had taken any meetings being asked about by the media.


Why isn't every major newspaper and media in the country saying that they will investigate this story to see if the allegations are true instead of not only will we not investigate the story, we will not allow or readers to even talk about it among themselves.


Remarkable. Stunning. A threat to out Democracy. Jack Dorsey of Twitter will be subpoenaed to testify before the Senate judiciary committee next Friday on why he took this remarkable step to suppress a news story when he took no such step to suppress the same kind of story against a Republican. Hope you have a good answer Jack. Originally Posted by HedonistForever

OK, I don't agree with parts of this. In particular I think Burisma is overblown. And nobody's going to get my vote based on being the lesser of two evils. The candidate must exhibit good sense and integrity. And both fall short this year on at least one of those two criteria.

However this is a well written, thoughtful post, typical of many you've written this year. I agree 100% on Twitter and Facebook. I'm not on social media, but suspect these forums used to be impartial. Not anymore. Dorsey openly favors the left. And Zuckerberg goes whichever way the wind blows. Before he might have had a bit of a pro-Trump bias in the way he ran Facebook. Now that it looks like Democrats will control the presidency and Congress, he's changing his tune. His first priority is Facebook shareholders, and he's the largest.

Reddog, I won't be voting for Trump, or Biden, but disagree with a couple of points,

Let's all vote for the man who promotes raising taxes

Instead, let's vote for the billionaire man who seems be ok with the middle class paying taxes at a higher percent of gross income thanks to his still disputed "deductions". Originally Posted by reddog1951

I looked at this in depth and posted on it here but am too lazy to look it up. This is in general not true. People in lower income brackets received much larger tax cuts in % terms than most upper income tax payers. This change in tax rates made the tax system more progressive. People making between $200,000 to $500,000 per year got no or very little in the way of a tax cut. Those making less saw their income taxes reduced up to 20%. An exception, people making over around $500,000 per year did get a cut of 6.5%, from 39.6% to 37%, before the 3.8% Affordable Care Tax (ACA - Obamacare tax) on non-salary income, or from 43.4% to 40.8% after the ACA tax.

HOWEVER, wealthy taxpayers with lots of depreciation deductions, for example those who own rental real estate (like Donald Trump) did receive significant tax cuts for their pass through businesses.

Trump intended to raise tax rates on upper income Americans. Ironically Gary Cohn, a Democrat in his administration who used to work for Goldman Sachs, talked him out of it. Cohn said something like "Mr. President, you're a Republican, you can't raise tax rates."

Let's vote for another attorney

Not a fan of them either, but at least they know something about the law and constitution. Most are also versed in logic and proper behavior in legal endeavors. Originally Posted by reddog1951

The country has way too many lawyers in political office, and not enough accountants, businessmen, engineers, or scientists like yourself.

Anyway, back to what you other 3 said, neither party is like it used to be. The Republican party has gone through some significant changes too. Especially in the last 4 years. Originally Posted by Jam3768

TBH, I think it's for the better, the centrist warhounds and Neocons are finally getting pushed out. Conservatives are getting tired of wars, debt, and having to spend lives to protect oil company profits.

The jarring thing is watching the progressives push the Overton Window so far left that they're becoming the imperialists and despots that they claim to hate.

I don't agree on the notion of politicians "voting their conscience", they're barely better than lizard people. They've always chased the money and power, but now that corruption is becoming harder and harder to conceal so they need to go into survival mode.

Also, it's difficult to have bipartisan alignment when both sides have dramatically different interpretations of what America is. Personally, I think Balkanization is the only way to save the spirit of America with minimal bloodshed.

Despite what California or New York think, they don't get to dictate how this country is run or get to tell other states what to do.

TBH, I think it's for the better, the centrist warhounds and Neocons are finally getting pushed out. Conservatives are getting tired of wars, debt, and having to spend lives to protect oil company profits. Originally Posted by GastonGlock

I'm tired of wars, debt, and Neocon warhounds. But the Republican Party has never gone to war to protect oil company profits. Why would we go to war with Iraq to protect the profits of the Kuwaiti and Iraqi National Oil Companies? And the argument that it was to give business to Halliburton is just about as dumb. That's not to say that going into Iraq during the George W. Bush presidency wasn't stupid.

I'm tired of wars, debt, and Neocon warhounds. But the Republican Party has never gone to war to protect oil company profits. Why would we go to war with Iraq to protect the profits of the Kuwaiti and Iraqi National Oil Companies? And the argument that it was to give business to Halliburton is just about as dumb. That's not to say that going into Iraq during the George W. Bush presidency wasn't stupid. Originally Posted by Tiny

The only interest any of us have in the middle east is oil and resources, and we, along with the rest of the west have spent the last 100 years installing tin pot dictators that are friendly to our causes. It sure as shit wasn't to install democracy, it's completely incompatible with their culture.

The reward we reap for it is antagonizing the populace who see us as the people pulling the strings of the puppet that has the boot on their neck. Violent, Radical, Fundamental Islam in the shape it currently is is a direct result of the west's fuckery in the middle east.

The lesson, more than anything, is that we need to learn to mind our own business, and stay out of other peoples' yards.

...Instead, let's vote for the billionaire man who seems be ok with the middle class paying taxes at a higher percent of gross income thanks to his still disputed "deductions".... Originally Posted by reddog1951

Calculate the total number of people employed by Trump to the total number employed by the individual middle class tax payer that worked for Trump and multiply by the salaries paid by both. Next, calculate the amount spent by Trump on taxes, benefits, services and materials and for each individual middle class tax payer. Add all of those numbers up - that is what Trump contributed to the economy. Let me shorten the path for you further - the average tax payer contributed nothing of their own other than their time. It all came from Trump or someone like him. All the average taxpayer contributed was time distributing other peoples money.
Hoping you made it thus far. So what the Demonicrats/socialists/Marxists/anarchists/what-nots are trying to do is disengage themselves from the entire process and live off of Trumps contributions. Yet you don't see how one requires the other.

ICU,

I come from a family of union members, and one even was president of his chapter for a few years. By all logic, I should be an easy "blue vote". However, I am thoroughly disgusted with the Democrat party, and what it has become. Funny is that, for the most part, Trump actually is what the Democrat party aimed to be 35-40 years ago.

The only interest any of us have in the middle east is oil and resources, and we, along with the rest of the west have spent the last 100 years installing tin pot dictators that are friendly to our causes. It sure as shit wasn't to install democracy, it's completely incompatible with their culture.... Originally Posted by GastonGlock

So, uhmmm <scratching head>, that would mean that someone that came strolling down the pike that could make America energy independent, i.e. not needing Middle East oil or resources, which would end the cycle of installing tin pot dictators and endless wars, costing trillions of dollars - would be like a Godsend? Brilliant! I think I would nominate them for a Nobel Peace price or two or three or four or more (is that what he is up to now?)

Hmmm <stroking goatee>, that would further mean that they could end the torrid money laundering and kick back schemes of so many politicians and other corporate and banking interests to prop up all the wars and dictatorships and bring it al into the light of day, aka snshine. Here comes Nobel Peace prize #5.

But shee-dang! Wouldn't that piss-off a lot of people having their money trail disrupted, while at the same time returning American wealth to Americans? Tee up Nobel Peace Prize #6.

Shoot howdy, just rename the dang thing to the Trump Awards and he can produce the show on TV. It will be a big hit.

History and character nonwithstanding, Trump is still the biggest piece of shit in US Presidential history. He ticks every fucking bkx