A Nation of Immigrants

Chung Tran: You missed the point that it would be much simpler to learn Spanish and cross the Rio Grande-then those in charge wouldn't care.

If he is "playing by the rules" then why should it matter "how many"? If he can support them-a damn sight better than the taxpayers supporting them! Originally Posted by Pistol Man

The per person cost to run the US government is about 12,000 or so per year per man, woman, child. Unless he is forking over that much every year for his dependents, he is costing us money!!!

Jazz, Actually I did not take offense. I am anal about the use of the English language and native American simply means born in America. I still see nothing wrong with the term American Indians, so ol' Chris Columbus made a little mistake.....

Chung Tran: You missed the point that it would be much simpler to learn Spanish and cross the Rio Grande-then those in charge wouldn't care.

If he is "playing by the rules" then why should it matter "how many"? If he can support them-a damn sight better than the taxpayers supporting them! Originally Posted by Pistol Man

it matters because he came here via a special invitation from our Country, as a refugee... it doesn't follow that he should be able to bring all of his family over... if anything, I would argue that Vietnam is not like the Country he fled many years ago, and he should therefore be sent back... I am not saying he should return, but it makes more sense than allowing him to sponsor unlimited relatives, who want to come simply for better economic prospects

The following people were immigrants to the United States. This is provided as a counterpoint to all those feel good stories talking about how immigrants make this country stronger.
Charles Ponzi (if you don't know who he is, ask Bernie Madoff who is idol is)

Oliver O'Grady – Former Roman Catholic priest who raped, molested and abused many children in California. He was removed from the United States to Ireland in 2001

John Demjanjuk – Alleged Nazi war criminal from Ukraine, naturalized as a US citizen in 1958. After trial and acquittal in Israel, denaturalized in 2002, and finally deported in 2009 to Germany, which had filed war crimes charges.

Griselda Blanco – Colombian drug lord for the Medellín Cartel, and a pioneer in the Miami-based cocaine drug trade during the 1970s and early 1980s. Deported to the United States in 2004

Numerous Zetas, murderers, burglars, etc I could name names all day.

Approximately 75,000 people who immigrated to the United States are deported each year after receiving a criminal conviction. No other country in the world even allows that many immigrants each year, total!! Originally Posted by Jewish Lawyer

Just a point of clarity I have to disagree with your statistics. Having lived for 20 years in Europe I can tell you that there a fair number of countries there that allow more than 75K immigrants into their country each year.

I've not done the math but if you look at it as a % of population I think there are many countries that let in more immigrants each year than we do here in the USA.

What disquiets me is that the discussion of immigration always seems to come up more often when times are tough economically. I've yet to see a national discussion around immigration in any country when times are good. I don't want to call it racist, but it does appear to be protectionist and while that isn't bad I think we all need to be careful or it can and will become about race.

Lets be real here, The USA's history from foundation to present is pretty disturbing and this country was built to favor one race. White people aka the first illegal immagrants. By means of slavery, exploitation, getting people sick from being dirty and not bathing, check your Europeain history, and war with civilized people that were here first the USA has grown. Slaves built the White House not the ones who stayed their. Who built railroads out west? That was immagrants. The founding fathers were not the highest caliber of people. That's why when they left no one was to heart broken. Something interesting..... Look at the story of Pochahantus, forgive my spelling, her tribe were all killed and she died to but what is told by Disney is a completely different story. As long as this country is ruled by money it will never reach its full potential. Those immagrants you label as being a blith to America are not the problem maybe it's those people spreading hate and distain for people that don't look like them. j/s

Lets be real here, The USA's history from foundation to present is pretty disturbing and this country was built to favor one race. White people aka the first illegal immagrants. By means of slavery, exploitation, getting people sick from being dirty and not bathing, check your Europeain history, and war with civilized people that were here first the USA has grown. Slaves built the White House not the ones who stayed their. Who built railroads out west? That was immagrants. The founding fathers were not the highest caliber of people. That's why when they left no one was to heart broken. Something interesting..... Look at the story of Pochahantus, forgive my spelling, her tribe were all killed and she died to but what is told by Disney is a completely different story. As long as this country is ruled by money it will never reach its full potential. Those immagrants you label as being a blith to America are not the problem maybe it's those people spreading hate and distain for people that don't look like them. j/s Originally Posted by navman2012

Putting man on the moon, winning two world wars, inventing the internet, modern auto manufacturing, bullet proof vest, TANG, freeing the slaves, giving women the vote, etc - the evil white man has never been worth a shit, has he? Why don't we just get rid of white people altogether, starting with white liberals.

Just a point of clarity I have to disagree with your statistics. Having lived for 20 years in Europe I can tell you that there a fair number of countries there that allow more than 75K immigrants into their country each year.

I've not done the math but if you look at it as a % of population I think there are many countries that let in more immigrants each year than we do here in the USA. Originally Posted by MojoR

Go ahead and do the math, let's see if you are right.
BTW, they are probably white countries that allow their culture and ethnicity to be replaced by others. China, Japan, and even Mexico restrict immigration to those reflecting their culture. The rest of the world is happily displacing the formerly white nations which are too stupid to realize they are being genocided out of existence, as well as going broke with their misplaced suicidal generosity to all those who nurse historical grievances against them.
In a way, if you are too stupid to stop your own destruction when you have the power to do so, you probably deserve it.
Myself, I've decided to move to Israel.

Now I know why it is impossible to have a lucid discussion about immigration.

Chung Tran and Jewish Lawyer - So you both seem to hold forth the opinion that a man and wife who escaped tyranny with absolutely nothing except an invitation to come to America and have since (1) built a very successful business, (2) put 5 children thru college (at their cost), (3) have paid more U.S. taxes in the past 30 years than most of my clients earn in that length of time, shouldn't be allowed to sponsor family members from Vietnam (at their cost)?

Wow, that's harsh. Play by all the rules and still get trashed! You guys inhabit a different America than the one in which I grew up.

I remember a time when this sort of bullshit could only be discussed at night, in a secret location, with other like minded bigots.

hang on, I didn't say he shouldn't be allowed to sponsor anybody....

I said he shouldn't be allowed to sponsor everybody...in his family... it's great that he has been successful, but just because he has "made it", by the standards of a 21st Century, American-idea of what success is, it doesn't follow that he should be afforded unlimited sponsorship.

using your criteria, Donald Trump should be allowed to dictate who he wants to bring to America...he can sponsor them, back them financially... Donald is an "American success", and with that comes privileges that ordinary folks don't get.. why not add immigration options to that already large list?

a reasonable immigration policy would allow your friend to sponsor his wife and minor children... and nobody else

Now I know why it is impossible to have a lucid discussion about immigration.

Chung Tran and Jewish Lawyer - So you both seem to hold forth the opinion that a man and wife who escaped tyranny with absolutely nothing except an invitation to come to America and have since (1) built a very successful business, (2) put 5 children thru college (at their cost), (3) have paid more U.S. taxes in the past 30 years than most of my clients earn in that length of time, shouldn't be allowed to sponsor family members from Vietnam (at their cost)?

Wow, that's harsh. Play by all the rules and still get trashed! You guys inhabit a different America than the one in which I grew up. Originally Posted by Pistol Man

Obviously, if everyone who came here was like that, it would be great. But, it is sentimental bullshit to believe that we are bringing in such high quality people all the time when we have to deport 75 thousand people a year for their criminal activity. (other than prostitution, which wouldn't be a crime in a rational world)

a reasonable immigration policy would allow your friend to sponsor his wife and minor children... and nobody else Originally Posted by Chung Tran

If he pays for them!!!

you know, Americans were able to build all the houses, mow there own yards, pick their own cotton, mop kitchen floors and bus tables at restaurants, and build the greatest country in the world without Hispanic immigrants. Originally Posted by Jewish Lawyer

Maybe they didn't use Hispanic immigrants, but they certainly used slave labor and the cotton gin, which was invented by the son of immigrants.

... But I can't say much for Mexico, the country, and I don't want to import their third world poverty stricken live on corn tortillas way of doing things. ... Originally Posted by Jewish Lawyer

We don't need to import it, we're cultivating it ourselves. The foundation for the standard of living we think of as 'American' has been a strong middle class. A strong educated middle class is a consumer base, a tax base, and skilled workforce. What is needed for a strong middle class? World class education, health care, and jobs, all of which are in decline in this country.

Good thing we can find it in our hearts to donate those jets to Egypt, though! Fuck.

Go ahead and do the math, let's see if you are right.
BTW, they are probably white countries that allow their culture and ethnicity to be replaced by others. China, Japan, and even Mexico restrict immigration to those reflecting their culture. The rest of the world is happily displacing the formerly white nations which are too stupid to realize they are being genocided out of existence, as well as going broke with their misplaced suicidal generosity to all those who nurse historical grievances against them.
In a way, if you are too stupid to stop your own destruction when you have the power to do so, you probably deserve it.
Myself, I've decided to move to Israel. Originally Posted by Jewish Lawyer

OK: Roughly this is the list looking at average annual inflow of immigrants as a % of population:

Luxembourg 2.9%
Switzerland 1.5%
Iceland 1.4%
Spain 1.3%
Ireland 1.3%
New Zealand 1.1%
Austria 1.1%
Slovenia .8%
Belgium .8%
Canada .8%
Germany .7%
Sweden .7%
UK .7%
Italy .6%
Czech Rep .5%
Netherland .5%
Korea .5%
Denmark .5%
Portugal .5%
USA .4%
Israel .3%
Chile .3%
Greece .3%

If you factor in immigration outflow against inflow against base population the USA moves up to 12th place.