I Hate to Agree with Kissinger, But....

The big difference between Russia and Afganistan and Russia and Ukraine is the price of oil.

The Saudi's appear to be on the Russians side this time.

After arguing that were NOT in fact any bio-labs in Ukraine, they now admit that there are about 46. Bear in mind that Hunter Biden, son of F Joe Biden, helped secure funding for some of them and Putin had released documents from some he had captured - yet they still denied any existed.


Conspiracy Theorists - 1 vs Disinformation Board - 0

US Department of Defense Finally Comes Clean – Admits in Public Document that There Are 46 US Military-Funded Biolabs in Ukraine

By Jim Hoft
Published June 12, 2022 at 9:00am

It wasn’t that long ago that Mitt Romney was threatening former Rep. Tulsi Gabbard for suggesting the US was funding biolabs in Ukraine.

Back in March, RINO Senator Mitt Romney accused former Democrat Rep. Tulsi Gabbard of spreading ‘treasonous lies’ for simply talking about the US-funded biolabs in Ukraine.

“There are 25+ US-funded biolabs in Ukraine which if breached would release and spread deadly pathogens to US/world.” Gabbard said on Sunday.

“We must take action now to prevent disaster. US/Russia/Ukraine/NATO/UN/EU must implement a ceasefire now around these labs until they’re secured and pathogens destroyed,” she added.

Tulsi Gabbard made her statement based on testimony from the Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs in Eurasia, Victoria Nuland.

Victoria Nuland admitted during testimony before a US Senate committee the existence of biological research labs in Ukraine.

Less than 24 hours later, White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki said that reports of biolabs in Ukraine were fake news propagated by Russia.

The Democrat-fake news-media complex then attacked anyone who brought up the biolabs in Ukraine.

Mitt Romney lashed out at Tulsi Gabbard, saying, “Tulsi Gabbard is parroting false Russian propaganda. Her treasonous lies may well cost lives.”

Then this happened– Russia released alleged captured documents from Ukraine exposing evidence of US Military Biolabs in Ukraine.

Russia made the accusations in front of the United Nations General Assembly...

Just thought I would mention it.

I'm pretty sure chungy took a peek at your post already, lol.

Your yahoo article makes it clear Zelensky can't "cut a deal" even if he wanted to. Public opinion is resolutely against it. The last thing the US should do is apply any pressure on him. Putin is a thug who will immediately sense our weakness if we start telling Ukraine it's time to negotiate with the invaders who are slaughtering their people. Besides, it's not our fucking choice to make!
Originally Posted by lustylad

I had not peeked at waco's post, but since you quoted him, he and Kissinger are right! Who cares if Putin ''senses'' weakness? Your/our 401k is a 201k right now, do you want it to become a 101k while you wait Putin out? Who cares that Russia's economy is worse than ours? Putin doesn't. You want to hold out for honor? Putin is a POS Thug, but you want to wait him out, fiddle while our Economy tanks, because we are better people? Fuck it. The Ukraine is not honorable. We should intervene, orchestrate a Deal. Fuck that it's not our choice to make. They owe us for all the blankets Obama gave them. It's thinking like yours that lengthened World War 2 by several years.

It's thinking like yours that lengthened World War 2 by several years. Originally Posted by Chung Tran

Oh, I would love to hear the theory behind this assertion! lol

Your/our 401k is a 201k right now, do you want it to become a 101k while you wait Putin out? ... Originally Posted by Chung Tran

The below chart shows an anomaly that started in January 2021. Coincidentally, the main market indexes started trending down at about the same time.



I also recall posting this around January 22, 2022




But my fuzzy memory recalls Putin's land reclamation starting on February 24, 2022.
Anyway, I was thinking:

Imma B 1st to call it: NATO should invade Ukraine to assist Russia and the US should make them do so.

There are those in Con-gress that believe they have the solution to record high inflation

House Democrats Aim to Reduce 40-Year-High Inflation by Spending More Money



House Democrats on Wednesday are aiming to reduce inflation by spending more money via the Bipartisan Innovation Act.

The bill promises to spend $52 billion in government subsidies to improve U.S. semiconductor production, improve STEM education, and establish a Supply Chain Office at the Department of Commerce. The bill also spends money on funding the Manufacturing USA Institutes and the Manufacturing Extension Partnership.

It is unknown how pumping more money into the economy would reduce President Joe Biden’s 40-year-high inflation. The bill has not yet been scored by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).

Nevertheless, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s lieutenant, Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-MD), told Democrat House members on Monday to expect a vote on the bill this work period, Punchbowl News reported. Hoyer claimed the passage of the bill is the “most important step Congress can take right now” to reduce Biden’s inflation. The bill is still in committee.

Feeling the pressure from the midterm elections right around the corner in November, Democrat House members are searching for a solution to reduce inflation fueled by massive spending packages passed in 2021 by the establishment.

Reps. Katie Porter (D-CA), Dina Titus (D-NV), Tom O’Halleran (D-AZ), Cindy Axne (D-IA), Kim Schrier (D-WA), Abigail Spanberger (D-VA), and Susie Lee (D-NV) penned a letter on Monday to Democrat leadership, pleading with them to address inflation.

“Hardworking families in our districts and across the country are facing rising costs across the board. While the reasons for these rising costs are many and varied, the fact remains that these inflationary pressures are harming our constituents, small businesses and working families,” the leader read as reported by Punchbowl News. “We continue to hear from folks who are wondering what Washington is doing to address these problems.”

Eighty percent of Americans say inflation is an “extremely/very important” factor in how they will vote in the midterm elections, a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll revealed.

According to Bloomberg, inflation will cost American households on average an extra $5,200 in 2022, or $433 per month. Inflation will also delay 25 percent of Americans from retiring, a BMO Real Financial Progress Index survey revealed.

Oh, and buy a $56,000 EV. Brilliant!

i think its just called CONTROL by average people

the communists use all sorts of euphemisms and rationales and lies and word redefinitions in furtherance of power


The bill promises to spend $52 billion in government subsidies to improve U.S. semiconductor production, improve STEM education, and establish a Supply Chain Office at the Department of Commerce. The bill also spends money on funding the Manufacturing USA Institutes and the Manufacturing Extension Partnership.

Russia for all its vast size seems unable to do anything except produce oil. strange.

Yeah, it's a tragedy that Russia with its abundant natural resources has been unable to live up to its economic potential since communism collapsed. The biggest reason is CORRUPTION. It sucks the life out of any economy. Do you recall how Putin spent $50 billion to get Sochi ready for the 2014 Winter Olympics? In a normal country, it would have cost a mere fraction of this amount. All that money being siphoned off in payoffs and bribes is money that doesn't get spent on productive purposes. Crony capitalism is almost as deleterious to a healthy economy as communism is.


i simply do not trust Biden. he could fuck up a wet dream. Obama said so lol. and i don't trust who's whispering into his ear piece. or his teleprompter.

I agree 100%. However, I do trust some of the NATO and European leaders who are most directly threatened by Russia's war mongering. Ask the leaders of Finland and Sweden why they suddenly want to join NATO, after decades of neutrality.


then there is the real possibility that Putin will drop dead soon. but who succeeds him? and as the body bags mount in Moscow does the russkie populace who have generally been lied to about the "success" in Ukraine turn on Vlad?

Good questions, for which there are no easy answers. When Russia first invaded Ukraine back in February, Niall Ferguson said the chances of Putin being removed from power just increased from zero to 10%. It's probably higher today, given how badly the war has gone for Moscow. But we can't base our foreign policy on the hope that an autocrat will be ousted.


at the end of the day Ukraine means nothing to the US

7 million refugees pouring into places like Poland, Hungary, Germany and Romania mean nothing? Skyrocketing world prices for wheat and fertilizer mean nothing? Famines and likely instability in Africa and the Middle East mean nothing?

Ukraine may not be vital enough to our national interests to warrant sending troops, but it surely means more than "nothing". Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

Still wanna agree with chungy?

Ukraine is not a fight for their independence but for Europes.


I'm somewhere in between lustylad and CT on this issue.

Haven't quite figured out short vs long term implications.

I do know this....if Biden doesn't either step up and arm Ukraine properly....this will be a drag on the world economy and may convince Trump to run again and he will damn sure give Putin the whole of Europe!

LOL. This was a done deal as soon as it started. The Russians have still not mobilized and are therefor fighting in at a deliberate disadvantage. They are fighting in a manner that deliberately reduces civilian deaths (yeah there's be a lot more if the Ruskies went all in)... Originally Posted by texassapper

You're badly misinformed. The Russians have already lost more troops in Ukraine than during a decade in Afghanistan. They've been sending in mercenaries, along with Chechnyan and Tatar Muslims, as replacements. They've lost over 100 aircraft (including helicopters), 700 tanks and 3,000 armored vehicles. A dozen Russian generals have been killed. Why do you think they're on the front lines?

And they don't give a fuck about civilian deaths. They're bombarding cities indiscriminately. They committed heinous war crimes in Bucha. Did you miss the dead civilians in the streets and the mass graves that were unearthed after the Russians retreated?

Get real.

We should stop supporting one side and work to broker a peace deal. That's what we always should have done... Originally Posted by texassapper

It took this long to figure this out? They should’ve struck a deal before it started. Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

We already tried that. Ever hear of the Minsk Accords? They didn't stop Putin from launching his invasion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements

The only thing Putin can be trusted to do is to discard any negotiated cease-fire/agreement once it no longer serves his purposes.

You're badly misinformed. The Russians have already lost more troops in Ukraine than during a decade in Afghanistan. Originally Posted by lustylad

You realize Astan was three decades ago right? Not sure what Astan has to do with the Russians NOT having activated their reserves.

They've been sending in mercenaries, along with Chechnyan and Tatar Muslims, as replacements. Originally Posted by lustylad

Meanwhile not activating their reserves... lol

They've lost 700 tanks and 3,000 armored vehicles or equipment. Originally Posted by lustylad

In a war of attrition guess who between the UKR and RUS can afford those losses?

A dozen Russian generals have been killed. Why do you think they're on the front lines? Originally Posted by lustylad

Russian Doctrine which historically has kept decision making at higher levels than for example the US Army. The RUS infantry platoon leader is not expected to make tactical decisions in the same manner as the US Equivalent, thus you see senior officers closer to the front. The fact that they've lost so many is testament to the information that the US Signals Intel has been providing to the UKR. (my understanding based on our claims)

The Russians don't give a fuck about civilian deaths. They're bombarding cities indiscriminately. Originally Posted by lustylad

You use that term like someone that doesn't understand what "indiscriminate" means. There was more damage done during the BLM riots than anything I've seen coming out of UKR.

They committed heinous war crimes in Bucha. Did you miss the dead civilians in the streets and the mass graves that were unearthed after the Russians retreated? Originally Posted by lustylad

LOL... well the first casualty of war is always the truth... Here's what is known..

• Russian troops leave Bucha on March 30. Here is the official declaration.
• On March 31, the mayor of Bucha, Anatoly Fedoruk, posted a video declaring with a happy smile on his face that “March 31 will go down in the history of our settlement and the entire territorial community as the day of liberation from Russian orcs, Russian occupiers of our settlements, by our Armed Forces of Ukraine.”
• The media campaign, initiated Sunday, April 3, was launched four days after the Russian Military had left Bucha. During this period, there was not a single report bearing similarity to Ukraine’s accusations.
• The New York Times reported that between April 1 and 2, remnants of the neo-Nazi Azov battalion, which forms part of the Ukrainian military, entered the city of Bucha.

There is video of the UKR-Nazi Azov unit asking if he can shoot unarmed men.. the reply is yes.. he could.

If you want to be better informed about the Bucha propaganda... maybe try here.

Get real. Originally Posted by lustylad

LOL.. No. You need to stop believing everything you are told by the media.

The US has zero strategic interests in UKR other than to hide those 46 Bio-weapon labs we said we didn't have but now we have admitted to. The Pentagon, along with the Beijing Biden Regime is lying to you... I wish it weren't so but that's the way it is.

You need to understand there is no more media... there are only state approved propaganda outlets on both sides. Not everything you are reading is true...hell probably not even 10% of it.

But maybe you know the Ghost of Kiev better than I do.

We already tried that. Ever hear of the Minsk Accords? Originally Posted by lustylad

Are you double dog sure that in the intervening years, the UKR never violated the Minsk accords LOL...

Wow, you will believe anything you read won't you?

Tell me where is all the verifiable knowledge that you have coming from? Got friends in UKR have you?

smh.... you are on the hook, that bait is set deep, no point bothering with you...

After arguing that were NOT in fact any bio-labs in Ukraine, they now admit that there are about 46. Bear in mind that Hunter Biden, son of F Joe Biden, helped secure funding for some of them and Putin had released documents from some he had captured - yet they still denied any existed.

Conspiracy Theorists - 1 vs Disinformation Board - 0 Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

You sure are a gullible SOB, aintcha? Here's the REAL story:


Pentagon’s Work With Ukraine’s Biological Facilities Becomes Flashpoint in Russia’s Information War

Moscow falsely accuses U.S. of funding biowarfare in Ukraine despite Kremlin once benefiting from Pentagon program

By Sharon Weinberger
March 20, 2022 5:30 am ET

On his first official visit abroad, the new senator from Illinois, Barack Obama, was taken to a facility in Ukraine where the U.S. helped scientists working with dangerous biological materials. But rather than produce biological weapons, U.S. officials in that ramshackle building were trying to prevent lethal pathogens from falling into the hands of terrorists.

“I removed a tray of glass vials containing Bacillus anthracis, which is the bacterium that causes the anthrax,” recalls Andrew Weber, the Pentagon official who was in charge of the U.S.-funded program that worked with the Ukrainian government. Mr. Weber said he showed the tray “to a very concerned-looking young senator.”

Mr. Obama himself recalled seeing in his 2005 trip to Ukraine “test tubes filled with anthrax and the plague lying virtually unlocked and unguarded.”

A decades-old Pentagon program that was used to secure biological weapons across the former Soviet Union—and to build trust between Washington and Moscow after the Cold War—has instead become a new flashpoint in an information war between the two countries in the wake of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Moscow has accused the Pentagon of funding weapons work in Ukraine’s biological laboratories. “These were not peaceful experiments,” Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said earlier this month.

China, whose leader Xi Jinping has cultivated a close relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin, has echoed those allegations. “Russia has found during its military operations that the U.S. uses these facilities to conduct bio-military plans,” the Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman told reporters.

U.S. officials have flatly denied those claims and warned that Moscow could use its allegations to justify its own use of weapons of mass destruction in Ukraine.

“We believe that Moscow may be setting the stage to use a chemical weapon and then falsely blame Ukraine to justify escalating its attacks on the Ukrainian people,” Secretary of State Antony Blinken said last week. “Manufacturing events and creating false narratives of genocide to justify greater use of military force is a tactic that Russia has used before.”

The allegations have shocked those who are most familiar with the Pentagon’s post-Cold War initiative, called the Cooperative Threat Reduction program. That is because not only has Russia been aware of the Pentagon’s work securing chemical, biological and nuclear facilities across the former Soviet Union, but it had also been its beneficiary for many years.

“They’re outrageous claims,” said Robert Pope, the head of the Defense Threat Reduction Agency, or DTRA, the arm of the Pentagon in charge of running the program. “We were created 30 years ago to eliminate weapons of mass destruction, and Russia knows well we eliminate weapons of mass destruction.”

The program, which dates back to 1991 and continues today, stretches across the former Soviet Union. Since the program started, the Pentagon has spent approximately $12 billion on securing material used in weapons of mass destruction in post-Soviet republics, according to a DTRA spokeswoman. Of those funds, about $200 million has been spent on the biological work in Ukraine since 2005. The funds have supported dozens of labs, health facilities and diagnostic sites around the country, the DTRA spokeswoman said.

Mr. Weber, who was in charge of negotiating the initial agreement with Kyiv to work on securing the country’s biological materials and facilities, said that work expanded to Ukraine after the 9/11 attacks, when al Qaeda terrorists hijacked aircraft and crashed them into the World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon. U.S. policy makers grew worried about the potential for terrorists to steal biological materials—fears that were heightened after letters containing anthrax were sent in the U.S. mail to congressional offices and media outlets. The FBI eventually concluded that an American scientist employed at a military lab sent the letters.

The president of Ukraine at the time, Leonid Kuchma, concerned about the threat of terrorism in his own country, asked the U.S. for help. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union a decade earlier, Ukraine had been starved of the funds needed to secure its biological facilities.

Mr. Weber put together a team that visited Ukraine’s biological and chemical facilities, which ranged from large laboratories to small veterinary research centers. “We found that a number of them had dangerous pathogen collections left over from Soviet days,” he said. “They were in pretty bad shape.”

Ukraine’s laboratories—unlike some in other former Soviet republics—weren’t directly involved in the Cold War biological-weapons program, but they did have pathogens that fed into offensive work, according to Mr. Weber.

Those pathogens, like anthrax, could pose a threat if released, whether accidentally or on purpose. The focus of U.S. work in Ukraine was to consolidate that biological material, much of it related to agriculture, into secure facilities, which the U.S. would pay to build or upgrade.

Paul McNelly, who from 1995 to 2003 directed the Defense Department’s chemical and biological elimination programs in Russia, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan, said he was stunned with what he saw inside the former Soviet facilities.

“You would walk into these places and the refrigerators that stored these dangerous pathogens, they had no locks on them at all,” Mr. McNelly said. “There would be vials that were labeled tularemia, plague, different things like that. And these people, most of them, weren’t masked. Their gowns were antiquated.” He added: “It was horrible.”

As part of the program, the Pentagon spent $1 billion to build the Russians a facility in Shchuchye, Siberia, to demilitarize some two million chemical weapons. By the time it was done in 2009, ties with Moscow were growing tense. The price of oil was going up, giving Russia more revenue to wean itself off foreign assistance. At the same time, Mr. Putin was consolidating power.

As a result, the Russian government became a less-willing partner to the Pentagon’s drive to secure the deadly materials, according to James Tegnelia, who served as the head of DTRA from 2005 to 2009. “They wanted our money, but they didn’t want to admit that we built the facility,” Mr. Tegnelia said. “You could see that they were getting ready to pull back.”

Russia’s Foreign Ministry had in the past praised the program. But by 2012, Moscow declined to renew cooperation, saying it could pay for the work on its own.

In 2014, the year Moscow illegally annexed Crimea and began backing separatists in Ukraine’s Donbas region, the program in Russia drew to a close.

A spokesman for the Russian Embassy in Washington, D.C., didn’t respond to a request for comment on the Pentagon program.

Yet even with that chapter of its cooperation over, the Russian claims about the Pentagon conducting secret weapons work in Ukraine came as a surprise not only to those who have worked on the program but also to other Western officials. The Kremlin has in the past used such charges as cover for its own actions, they say.

“We are concerned that Moscow could stage a false-flag operation, possibly including chemical weapons,” North Atlantic Treaty Organization Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said last week.

U.S. officials have declined to discuss what specific intelligence, if any, they have to indicate Russia might be preparing to deploy chemical or other unconventional weapons to Ukraine. But they say Russia has a history of using chemical weapons, including against Mr. Putin’s domestic political opponents, and it has encouraged their use in Syria by President Bashar al-Assad’s government.

The Russian government shot back against the U.S. allegations, denying plans to use chemical weapons. In a post last week on its official Telegram channel, the Russian Defense Ministry said the units fighting in Ukraine “do not have chemical munitions.”

Mr. Tegnelia, the former DTRA director, views Russia’s allegations as a path to an even more dangerous escalation. “If you see them using chemical weapons in Ukraine, watch out,” he said, “because they’re only one step away from nuclear weapons.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/pentago...ar-11647768601