Guys what do you think?

We should just start a thread called:

Conversations from Cell Block 69

PayPal sucks because if they determine funds where used for illegal activity they delete your account and you forfeit the funds on the account. Originally Posted by rockerrick

Really? I wasn't aware. Good to know. Originally Posted by cinnamonshark

Cinnamonshark,

Don't ever be a criminal dude.

You either rockerrick.

There's a big difference between being someone who breaks some laws and someone who's a criminal.

All hobbyists in prohibitionist jurisdictions "break the law", but very few are criminals.

That's my horny hobbyist rationalization and I'm sticking to it!

There's a big difference between being someone who breaks some laws and someone who's a criminal.

All hobbyists in prohibitionist jurisdictions "break the law", but very few are criminals.

That's my horny hobbyist rationalization and I'm sticking to it! Originally Posted by Blue_eyed_shy_guy

Guilty much?

No really I wasn't saying we are criminals. We aren't braking the law by any means.

As long as we are not soliciting prices for services we are definitely not breaking the law. I'm pretty sure the majority here are law abiding citizens with no record. I know I am... for the most part (led foot green thumb).

I was making a joke b/c rr and cs sounded like they were exchanging things to watch out for when being a criminal.
Like gail-birds exchanging con intel.

For the record: rockerrick and cinnamonshark are not criminals nor was I calling them criminals.

See Toyz. I told you!

Guilty much?

No really I wasn't saying we are criminals. We aren't braking the law by any means.

As long as we are not soliciting prices for services we are definitely not breaking the law. I'm pretty sure the majority here are law abiding citizens with no record. I know I am... for the most part (led foot green thumb).

I was making a joke b/c rr and cs sounded like they were exchanging things to watch out for when being a criminal.
Like gail-birds exchanging con intel.

For the record: rockerrick and cinnamonshark are not criminals nor was I calling them criminals.

See Toyz. I told you! Originally Posted by Ebony Jasmine Love Austin

I wasn't calling anyone criminals either. I was just taking the opportunity to get up on my soapbox to utter an opinion. This may happen quite often.. or at least until I get knocked upside the head enough to get the idea that I should stop.. besides, I tend to have the idea that just because there's a law against it doesn't make it bad. Reading libertarian sites rubbed off on me.

I've used the square for over a year. I've only had a couple of guys take advantage because most pay cash. I have one guy that uses it regularly with no problems at all.
Asking guys for DL and check name to make sure they match is a must too.

Tammie do you give some kind of email invoice and a confirmation for the charge.

Maybe you trust the guys who you take CC from, but would you do that for a first time newbie; just in case he does despite the charge?

How does one cover their ass from chargebacks?

I wasn't calling anyone criminals either. I was just taking the opportunity to get up on my soapbox to utter an opinion. This may happen quite often.. or at least until I get knocked upside the head enough to get the idea that I should stop.. besides, I tend to have the idea that just because there's a law against it doesn't make it bad. Reading libertarian sites rubbed off on me. Originally Posted by Blue_eyed_shy_guy

Ooooh okay, right; I mean... left?

Receipts are up to them. And I've only had one guy try to dispute the charges 2 months later. But I said it was able to give a description and his name so I got the money back.

I wouldn't trust anything except PayPal in transactions regarding the Hobby.

Side note: BugleBoy, divorce sucks! Originally Posted by cinnamonshark

Divorce sucks, but being divorced is awesome!

If you use a square, be prepared for a real huge downside risk: the Feds have implemented a program called Operation Choke Point. The long and short is that they gave identified several industries and pressure banks and payment providers to shut down services to the industries. The industries include gun and ammo dealers, payday loan services, etc. One specifically targeted is the pornography industry and services that aid or deal with prostitution.

I have represented at least two clients who have had funds frozen without warning when their banking and payment service providers shut them down cold. And I know even more that had to make radical and quick changes to their entire banking and financial structure both personally and for their businesses based on what line they are in.

So, if you use a square (or any cc service for that matter) just be aware what could happen instantaneously.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Choke_Point

Edited to add: If 5-0 ever does turn their attention to you, also you must realize that the financial trail left by the CC transactions could be used as a source of evidence for them. Not completely probative mind you, but it is a paper trail. Knew of at least one professional from the Bay Area that ran afoul of the IRS, and the CC transaction trail proved to be a trove of information both for the IRS case but for the state and local authorities who followed in the IRS wake..... the odds of something this drastic I know are slim, but you should be very aware of them as well.

According to the article you linked this operation was shut down just a few weeks ago?

That isnt certain at this time..... I have one client that this happened to just last week. But proof by vignette is just that, eh? Remember that many fed based programs are shut down in one name just to reappear elsewhere like in Groundhog Day....

Further, the original Choke Point only was supposed to encompass only a few industries. After many FOI lawsuits, it turns out the guidelines had suddenly mushroomed to the list in the link. My guess is that some of the less problematic industries will be removed (gun and ammo makers for example), while many closer suited to illegal activities will remain. Notice the formal ending was limited solely to *legal* industries. And the prevalence of the money transfer networks to the 9/11 terrorists would indicate to me a heavy hand by the government will still be in those types of "legal" activities.

Divorce sucks, but being divorced is awesome! Originally Posted by Claire She Blows

It is so awesome in fact, I did it twice!!

That isnt certain at this time..... I have one client that this happened to just last week. But proof by vignette is just that, eh? Remember that many fed based programs are shut down in one name just to reappear elsewhere like in Groundhog Day....

Further, the original Choke Point only was supposed to encompass only a few industries. After many FOI lawsuits, it turns out the guidelines had suddenly mushroomed to the list in the link. My guess is that some of the less problematic industries will be removed (gun and ammo makers for example), while many closer suited to illegal activities will remain. Notice the formal ending was limited solely to *legal* industries. And the prevalence of the money transfer networks to the 9/11 terrorists would indicate to me a heavy hand by the government will still be in those types of "legal" activities. Originally Posted by ttonic

Yes I fully understand how a government entity with a hard on for someone or some entity would manipulate programs and power to slide past any perceived rules against said process.

A government should fear its people and not visa versa...but that's been long ago since this was a truism.

PayPal sucks because if they determine funds where used for illegal activity they delete your account and you forfeit the funds on the account. Originally Posted by rockerrick

It's worse than that. If PayPal is suspicious about anything about your account, they can freeze your funds and take up to 6 months to investigate. Many people have claimed they do this capriciously with little explanation. They are alleged to have frozen people's account and refused to give any information about it for up to 6 months before making a decision.

They will only pay by electronic funds transfer. As with most forms of EFT, they can reverse the transfer for some time in the future with no advance notice.

If you do accept PayPal for ANYTHING, be sure to regard any PayPal money as being "phantom" money that can vanish at any time. Transfer the money to a real bank and then withdraw the funds, preferably as cash. You might even want to be sure that you don't have any other accounts at the bank account that you use for PayPal.

Google for PayPal horror stories. Also read the PayPal user agreement for what they're allowed to do.

Be similarly careful with square. Be sure it's not linked to any bank or bank account that you have significant funds in, and be sure to drain it frequently.