Beware of guys that short you, AFTER you leave

I infer that this was a first-visit outcall for this gentleman for you. I note you left out if there was any confirmation of the session's donation when making the arrangements.

Kelly, was there any discussion of the donation for the time requested when arranging the session? I'm making the assumption that there wasn't in my response. Of course, I understand not discussing the donation during the session.

So I'm going to illustrate how I would conclude $250 was expected if not discussed.
I note that you list a $50/hr P411 discount. Your ECCIE showcase lists your outcall donation as $300/hr. $300 - $50 = $250. Since you mention his P411 OK's, he probably booked this way.

I always discuss the time/donation in the communications to book a session. I've never had that be met with any hostility. I suppose I usually bring it up, but not always - sometimes the provider confirms her rate for the session's length of time.

I would hope the other providers don't view this as such an affront by Shaft. Unless other providers report that the same hobbyist shorts them too, give the guy the benefit of the doubt: he left $250 instead of $300, and it was probably an honest mistake.

I have seen Shaft before and had no problems with him. I am sorry that you two have had a misunderstanding. I assure you it has nothing to do with him being African American. That drives me insane! If I mistrusted all Caucasian men because of one bad apple... wow, can you imagine?

I was accused by a provider several years ago of short changing her. It was a complete insult to me. I have no illusions about the hobby and I fully understand a provider is making her living by seeing men. So I always insist that the lady count the donation in front of me, usually before our time begins. I do put the needed donation in an unsealed envelope and hand it to the lady and then ask her to count the money in front of me. I do not have a problem with this system and it never distracts from my time with a lady. The lady counts the money, is satisfied that the donation is complete and secures the envelope. We can then enjoy our time together. I know this is not for everyone, but it works for me.

It is Shaft
He is on here all of the time and has like 127 OK's from Pref.411 Originally Posted by kellyofdallas

Thanks for the info. I will definately put him on my do not see list!

Not trying to hijack the thread but, following up on Black Sedan's comments:

If the P411 discount is a specific dollar amount and not labelled as "incall only", do most providers apply the discount to outcalls as well?

Interesting...

While it's super shitty that you got shorted... yeah yeah.. count your $$. Also, your P411 ads are confusing (discounts and such).

***** What really concerns me is that you're openly racist.*****

THAT makes YOU wayyyyyy worse than HIM any day in my book. Perhaps you should check yourself..........K

And for you ladies that are going to take her word as gospel about him being a douche... do your homework! This guy has no history of this sort of stuff, and given her racist comments, I'm more inclined to believe she's got a case of sour grapes.
Don't miss out on a probable good guy or his $$. He seems to love to spend it!!~

I agree Karma!!! I dont know the guy and I dont condone anyone ever shorting a provider,your ending statement made me focus more on what your perspective on African americans than anything else. BTW if he had 127 okays did you stop to think maybe it was an error? If this was his normal behavior i doubt he'd have that many okays,just my .02

Hmmm. . .

So back to my comment, is it time to waterboard somebody else, if in fact it turns out that this man is exonerated (his side of the story being that he put the amount as advertised in the envelope and even offered to pay her the extra fee, despite her mistake if she would drive out and pick it up) and it was indeed the provider's fault that the misunderstanding occurred and it was exacerbated because she vilified him publicly for something he really didn't do?

If the slur was public--the apology needs to be public.

Cracker, please!

I have seen Shaft before and had no problems with him. I am sorry that you two have had a misunderstanding. I assure you it has nothing to do with him being African American. That drives me insane! If I mistrusted all Caucasian men because of one bad apple... wow, can you imagine? Originally Posted by reese foster

I didn't notice her post identifying the guy before I made my post here concerning her last two statements.....I have known Shaft for a very long time and we both have seen many of the same ladies.....I know he would not intentionally short anyone and therefore I believe this had to be a misunderstanding on the donation as has been explained by some of the other posters to this thread.....I also concur with karma in that the way she expressed herself in this thread I was more focused on her last two statements as exhibited by my earlier post.....

I don't know about anyone else, but I like to know what the donation should be when I confirm. I understand not all providers are eager to discuss such things, even in email. If that's out of politeness, then I rather think clear communication is more important - trust trumps decorum, most especially in the hobby. If it's a safety concern, that I'm more sympathetic to.

What I do is to let the provider know which ad or ads I'm answering. If there is a P411 discount, I ask if it's still on. If there's an ECCIE special, I refer to that.

It sounds like this may have been an honest miscommunication, particularly in light of the hobbyist’s respectable history of other providers giving him a stamp of approval. On the other hand, said hobbyist could well put any doubts to rest by mailing her the balance if, in fact, that is what he agreed to do. This would demonstrate honorable conduct regardless of how others may behave toward him, and therefore give him the moral high ground, which is surely the sweeter victory than becoming entrenched over “sour grapes” as someone else put it.

As for the racial comment, I concur that it sounds dubious at best. But I respectfully disagree that it is "openly racist" as the beautiful Karma interpreted it. Bigotry is ugly; and if that's what it is, then I agree it is unworthy of any thinking mind. It is my humble opinion that rushing to judgment, however, disregards the gravity of the offense. In that vein I would ask that Kelly clarify her meaning, and then give her an opportunity to do so before declaring it for her.

Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail all around. That would be good karma for everyone involved

I love how all of you ladies are so quick to put him in the sewer without his side of the story. 127 ok's. Damn he is busy ass hell. He offered to pay you. I would drove back to get it. Hell the 50 dallars paid the tolls there and back.


Im sorry but why did you bring race into this. And why didn't you post this in the ladies room. Now you have brought the men into your business. At least in the back, girls could have discreetly confirm or disagree with proof.

If he ripped you off, that sucks.. and maybe you should have put this in alerts,if he didn't. Well that is up to you.


Errr, since this is the National part of board, where is the convicted party to plea his case. I don't see this thread getting better at all.

First off I think your post was very racist and ignorant. I don't count my donation first and I have only been shorted once. It was by a white man. I do see AA's and have quite a few that are great tippers. Why would you wait until you were all the way home before counting the money? He did offer to pay you the difference but you didn't want to drive back. I understand why but you have to give him credit for offering. As mentioned before your P411 ad states you offer a $50 discount. It does not have different rates posted for incall/outcall. Mistake on your part. I'm sure if this was a pattern for this man it would have been noted a long time ago. To all the ladies that automatically put this man on your DNS list: Shame on you. It seems you would at least hear his side of the story or go to her ads to see where the mix-up came from. I agree this should have only been posted in the Ladies room, not in an open forum where his fellow hobbyists could pass judgement on him. IMO, if I was a hobbyists this thread would be a total turn-off for me.

Wow!! This poor guy was slammed under the bus on a NATIONAL board w/o anything validating your account against him.

I agree that IF he did purposely short you (which by your own discount on P411 of $50, I dont think he did..ON PURPOSE), it would be a bad on him...
However, with 127 okays...I think it's safe to say that all those providers would disagree with you. I dont believe there was any malice intent on his part; miscommunication at best for both parties but none of this would justify playing the race card--it would be a matter of character, not skin color!!

>>Shaft, I would gladly add you to my WILL SEE list <<<<