Worth a read, folks. Maybe it isn't your fault, but it's your responsibility to fix this!

The real problem is that the feds take money and then hold the states hostage to get some of it back.
The states should fund the federal government and not the individual.
Let the states collect the taxes, figure out how the best need to take care of the needs and then decide how much goes to the Federal government. Originally Posted by The2Dogs

Or better yet, how about a Texit?

so what part of this could you not understand? Originally Posted by i'va biggen

There is no need to "understand" you irrelevant statement .... the simple answer is don't take the Fed money and have the State raise its own.

Of course, I recognize that "self-sufficiency" is a foreign concept to you.

See "New Jersey and Governor Christie" regarding the teachers.

Schools won't go away with no federal money. We will still have schools. Probably better schools. No, I take that back. We will DEFINITELY have better schools, and students will know which bathrooms to use.

..... students will know which bathrooms to use. Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

.... even though they may temporarily change from time to time!!!!

I do not have great faith in the Feds fixing education, but neither do I have any faith in some of our truly open minded local rednecks fixing it. Get the fed gov't out of education and it won't be a decade before we have "separate but equal" back in place under some creative wording. And the local Thumpers will make it illegal to teach evolution, adopt the bible as a text book, and who knows what else.

Do I have a good answer? No, not really. But as with a lot of things I tend to believe we have gotten to a point where no solution to a problem decades in the making will be easy. And I question our country's fortitude to work through the rough spots to make it work.

I do believe vouchers/competition in some form is needed, but right now too many (not all by any means) people screaming for vouchers don't think through the bigger picture.

Education needs a major renaissance, but there is going to be a lot of pain along the way.

Education needs a major renaissance, but there is going to be a lot of pain along the way. Originally Posted by Old-T

I wouldn't worry about the "rednecks" ....

... they didn't get us to where we are today.

The feel good, accommodation, social networking liberals did.

The average public school teacher participates about 1/2 the year.

When school teachers are getting paid $50,000 to $80,000 "a year" that is a "real salary" of $100,000 to $160,000 annually, with quality insurance, disability, and generous retirement benefits. They are not underpaid. Most are WAY overpaid.

If anyone recalls "The Peter Principle" ... it's alive and well in schools.

Reading Comprehension
Writing Skills
Math
Science
History
Family/Household Skills .... beginning by the 4th grade on .....

There is no need to "understand" you irrelevant statement .... the simple answer is don't take the Fed money and have the State raise its own.

Of course, I recognize that "self-sufficiency" is a foreign concept to you.

See "New Jersey and Governor Christie" regarding the teachers. Originally Posted by LexusLover

Right, that is why you went to babbling about raising taxes. Just wanted to start shit over a non issue.

Right, that is why you went to babbling about raising taxes. Just wanted to start shit over a non issue. Originally Posted by i'va biggen

LexusLover is so much smarter than you, and makes posts that are so well thought out and articulated, that you end up accentuating your inadequacies when you reply to him.

You should wave the white flag and quit picking a fight with your intellectual superiors.

I wouldn't worry about the "rednecks" ....

... they didn't get us to where we are today.

The feel good, accommodation, social networking liberals did.

The average public school teacher participates about 1/2 the year.

When school teachers are getting paid $50,000 to $80,000 "a year" that is a "real salary" of $100,000 to $160,000 annually, with quality insurance, disability, and generous retirement benefits. They are not underpaid. Most are WAY overpaid.

If anyone recalls "The Peter Principle" ... it's alive and well in schools.

Reading Comprehension
Writing Skills
Math
Science
History
Family/Household Skills .... beginning by the 4th grade on ..... Originally Posted by LexusLover

There have been a lot of people who contributed to where we are. The absurd politically correct crowd certainly has. The parents who equate school to babysitting have contributed. But yes, the Thumpers are right there too--remember the not-too-long-ago Louisiana idiots who put biblical references in as questions on a biology test? Lots of blame all around.

And I have no idea where you get your numbers from. Teachers (grade school) where I live get their salary for 9 mos work, not 6. Including prep, classroom time, and "unpaid" paper grading, etc., the good ones put in well over 40 hour weeks. And most of them don't make "$50-$80K".

No, money alone is not the solution, but spending money correctly is. Tenure is a problem and should be seriously changed. Administrator salaries are the ones that are often bloated, and both the RWWs and LWWs have been guilty of hiring administrators because of their politics instead of their ability to run schools.

Your list of topics looks reasonable to start, but the devil is in the details:

History: Easy to say, more difficult to decide what to cover and how. I have seen "involved parents" get apoplectic when a school wanted to uses history books that presented a more balanced picture of the arrival of Europeans in the Americas, and (abomination of abominations!) covered topics like the existence of pre-Columbian civilizations instead of a mass of uncivilized savages inhabiting the Americas pre 1492.

Science: Nothing political in THAT topic, now is there? Shall we start with creationism, the age of the universe, human reproduction? Even irrational numbers got some parents claiming they are the devil's work (their words, not mine).

I would also add PE, geography, and American government. And "current events", which is another one that is fraught with politics.

So while I agree with much of what you said, some I do not, and bottom line, it ain't quite that simple.

I largely agree that communities should control their own public school funding. However there has to be a way to ensure the quality of education.

I largely agree that communities should control their own public school funding. However there has to be a way to ensure the quality of education. Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Yeah. The Federal government has been in charge of that for decades. How's that working for you, AssupIdiot?

Right, that is why you went to babbling about raising taxes. Just wanted to start shit over a non issue. Originally Posted by i'va biggen

How is it "raising taxes"? Your "MAN" in the White House is doing that!!!!

http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/budget/index.html

http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/bu...-factsheet.pdf

A "non issue"?

....2017 ....."the (Obaminable proposed (added by LL)) Budget provides $69.4 billion in discretionary funding for the Department of Education in 2017, an increase of $1.3 billion, or 2 percent, over the 2016 enacted level, adjusted for comparability. The Budget also proposes $139.7 billion in new mandatory spending and reforms over the next decade. While investing in all areas of education, the Budget emphasizes three in particular: (1) increasing equity and excellence; (2) providing support for teachers and school leaders; and (3) promoting access, affordability, and completion in higher education.

Texas:

http://fastexas.org/about/spending.php

Yeah. The Federal government has been in charge of that for decades. How's that working for you, AssupIdiot? Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

It is not working well. But neither was it working well before they tried to control it. Segregated schools were a reality. School districts like parts of Rockland county in NY are wealthy, but some of the scools are a mess because local school boards syphon large amounts of the $ to the orthodox Jewish schools. Albuquerque NM has overpaid about 4 in a row superintendents obscene salaries and then had to buy them out after they were one embarrasment after another--telling the teachers they couldn't give reasonable raises becase so much money was going to pay the superentendents. Florida school districts that just a few years ago were still using books from the 1980s for "current events". Louisiana schools where "God is great" was the correct fill-in-the-blank answer to a biology test question--just a few examples of the greatness of "local control".

So tell me, how to we take out the feds from education yet avoid Brown vs Board of Education, the Sequel? It ain't that simple, and removing fed oversight is a far cry from the whole answer.

And I have no idea where you get your numbers from. Teachers (grade school) where I live get their salary for 9 mos work, not 6. Originally Posted by Old-T

They don't work "9 months" ... I don't know where you live, don't care.

There WERE 180 days of classroom instruction per year in Texas, and there are 365 days in the year ... in Texas. That's slightly less than 1/2 a year (6 months!). Now in Texas the work day is listed in the education code as 420 minutes, which is a 7 hour day .... minus 1 for lunch and 1 for an "off period." That amounts to 5 hours in the classroom ... and the "school year" is now defined in "minutes" .... 75,600 minutes of "instruction" ... = 180 days!!!!

The telling observation you made is: "the good ones put in well over 40 hour weeks."

In most schools you can count the "good ones" on one or two hands.

You should do a survey around the country on teachers' salaries ...

.... in Texas no experience gets a start at around $30,000 minimum and depending on the location upwards to $50,000 ..... which is a four year degree ..... right out of college. Then factor in the benefits .... which includes the retirement and disability packages, along with group health insurance.

Oh, don't give me the "paper grading" and "preparation" song and dance.

I know better!

.....how to we take out the feds from education yet avoid Brown vs Board of Education, the Sequel? It ain't that simple, and removing fed oversight is a far cry from the whole answer. Originally Posted by Old-T

The "Board of Education" in Brown was a local against a local in front of a local Judge and then up to the SCOTUS, and the Department of Education was not founded until 25 years later.