Value: What is it?

I think that most of the frustration is coming from the multitude of threads on several different forums in regards to price, value, the market, etc. While your intentions may be good- its probably just too much right now, considering all the other threads in the same vein that are currently going on. Originally Posted by DecemberLove

I honestly can't recall ever disagreeing with what you've said before, but I have to here. While I do agree it's too much right now, I believe the premise that undergirds this "sales approach" is faulty. Claim it a product or service needing quantitative points of analysis and you miss the mark. This is mutually beneficial human interaction. Place a value on that? Priceless. All women who choose to put themselves out there under scrutiny - completely disregarding the other aspects of the job - being compared to houses? Are you kidding me?

Since I put my.0.02 in before, count this as my 0.0325

Ok. That off my chest I do believe the thought was good. There are guys out here that will help if we can (and know how) even if it's just info from a guy's perspective. Been there - done that. What I believe is wrong is thinking I know more than my piece of the pie.

So, educate me. I completly agree there are nuances of this business that skew or make it hard to see the application of standard business pratices. And your right, some may not apply at all. But,there are some fundimentals that do apply.

Tracy, Lisa, what specifily did I say in my actual suggestions or observations that is wrong or does not apply. Its easy to say I don't have a clue so show me. Take a point or two and expain to me so I understand better. And do it in the way I intended. A polite, respecfull, way aimed at trying to help especialy new providers who are struggling learn more about how to present them better to the guys who buy their services. Something that address many of the complaints I hear all the time here. I think many of the complaints I hear are groundless but many are legit.

Many of you who have been around awhile do understand and know how to run your businesses very well. Grats to you. Did you know everthing you know now the day you started? I did say "Many may know this stuff but some of the newer ones may not have figured it out yet." in my first post.

I'll give you one to start with.

Do you disagree with my broad, generlized concept of value and how the componets affect each other? Is it too simple? Did I leave a concept out? If so, tell me.

I don't agree with the house analogy-- however, I also don't agree with the "priceless" theory.

I could charge $1000/hr. But if nobody books me, at the end of the month, I'm not going to have a home, or food for my family. I may feel I'm "worth" that, but if the "buying public" doesn't agree, then my "product" won't sell.

You cannot put a price on human interaction-- that much is true. However, what one is willing to "give" for said interaction--- on both sides of the fence-- is a different subject altogether.

This is why I feel the OP's analysis in his first post was good-- but perhaps ill timed given the current environment on the board. He basically gave a marketing analysis primer.

For me-- I have excellent TCB, a great attitude, great conversation and intelligence-- which would increase my "value" in the marketlplace.
BUT
I am also overweight and my schedule tends to change and I don't have 5* accomodations-- which lowers my "value" in the marketplace.

If you take away the human emotion for a moment and remember than for us it is a "business", then perhaps we would be wise to at least approach the non-contact parts of this as a "business".

Priceless in terms of getting clients back over time. Would I pay $1000/hour? Not on your life. But I have paid over $1000 in a month to a single provider. Apples to apples?

Exactly December. I am NOT trying to tell ANYONE how to handle the actual contact part of the business as you put it. I would never dream to tell anyone how to do the part they are an expert at. But, the rest of it IS a business. If you don't treat it that way, you will not do well.

I know nothing about actualy doing a providers work. I have never experienced the emotional toll and physical drain it must place on all of you except in concept. But, arranging for a place of business, manageing communications, how to provide great customer service outside the actual contact part, advertising, those are things I do know very well. And the vast majority of complaints I hear are focused square on the non-contact part of the business. Bait & Switch advertising, NC/NS or other communication problems, inaccurate or confusing advertising of services that are not delivered. Why can I not understand and be helpfull in thoise areas?

Thats why so many people with great ideas or products fail. They may know their product or service but they don't know anything about running a business. The best learn or get someone to show them or help them with the nuts and bolts of running a business.

No I am not lonely. Nope I was not venting

You have a great weekend dude.

Wishing you the best Sincerely
Lisa

Lisa, maybe your just venting. I know your not directing all you said at me. And I am not directing all I have to say at you. But, I started this to help drive things away from price to the much broader concept of value and how to understand the difference, Your post simply drives things right back to price. If you respond so negitiavily to someone who really wants to help and is concerned, even if they may do it poorly, then you will find it very lonely. There are many of us who do care, who do want to help. But most keep their mouths shut because they dont want to get trashed.

If you said Thank you for trying but your missing some important factors, then I would be asking you to educate me, help me be a better consumer. Show me how to get more value for my money. You know what is really insulting and discouraging? Being told over and over that because I am a guy, I know nothing, I can not possibly understand your side. Bull Shit. Being good at selling anything has nothing to do with male or female. What does matter is being able to see, understand, and fill the needs of your customer. It does not matter if its sex or cars.

I really hope I did not give the impression I think many women are over priced. In fact, I thought I made it quite clear that price is or can be less of an issue for most than some guys try to make it. I do not know of a single post I have made that tells anyone what they should charge. I may have stated they are not in my price range but that is very different. I even asked what made a specific woman worth so much because I did not know. But even there I never said she was over priced, just too much for me.

All hobbists are concerned with Value. Thats is one of the major points of my post. Price is only one componet. I am trying to get people to think of the whole picture, not focus on price.

The ability to get someone to buy something, reguardless of what it is, can be improved in many ways. If you (not you specificly, but providers in general) are going talk about things being slow, and we guys who actualy care see things from our view point that can contrubite to your lack of business, then dont get huffy if we try to educate you about what matters to us. We are, after all, the consumer. If you dont present what we want in a way we find attractive, we will go elseware.

You may be selling something we want and don't have but the attitude that its so special only you can place a value on it is just flat out wrong. You may be ladies and what you do is very personal but what your selling IS a product. That is not intended to be insulting in any way. It may not be sitting on a shelf in a store, but in a way it is. This is, for all intents and purposes, a store. It may be virtual, but it is still a location for you to sell a product/service to us. That does not exclude caring and passion and intimacy. Those are or can be all part of the product/service your selling. Maybe a large part of the problem is you fail to understand that.

You may be an expert on delivering that product/service but I have to tell you many of you SUCK (not in a good way) at getting and keeping customers and getting the most for your time and effort. Many think just because they have something to sell, it makes them an expert know it all in getting guys to buy it. And that we as customers know nothing. As long as you fail to understand your customer, you will continue to have problems. Oh yes, just based on numbers you will make money. But your going to have to work harder, longer, and with more problems than those that have learned to know their customer.

You know who the real experts are? They are the ladies who are sitting back and saying nothing. They know their customers and how to make things work, even in bad times. Things may get slow, but they are doing OK, Thank you very much. In good times, even a bad salesman can make money, the really good ones make money in bad times as well.

I will tell you just like I tell so many guys, If you see someone trying to help or understand, even if they are wrong, be helpfull and encourage. If most or all of what you have to say is negitiave, just STFU. You are making things worse not better. If you see nothing of value here move on. If you see an outright falsehood or error, explain why you feel that way and how to make it better. Take advantage of the guys who care and want to help. We are your allies, not your enemies Originally Posted by Bubba3452

This is great advice ladies. If you would just lower your prices from $200 down to $199, you will be turning them away at the door! I have seen this work! I held off on seeing Carrie Hillcrest until she ran her $599.99 special last year. When I saw that "5" I finally got off my ass.

I am not sure why you ladies are upset. When a 19 year-old provider told me I was running my law firm all wrong, I listened to her. I figured that her experience running a business and getting acquainted with the legal system and an attorney made her an expert in my area.

Lisa, put what I say in context, please. I said

"I will tell you just like I tell so many guys, If you see someone trying to help or understand, even if they are wrong, be helpfull and encourage. If most or all of what you have to say is negitiave, just STFU. You are making things worse not better. If you see nothing of value here move on. If you see an outright falsehood or error, explain why you feel that way and how to make it better."

There is a HUGE difference between not agreeing and just tearing things down because you don't agree. If you think I am wrong, fine. But then support your argument. Give information that provides a resolution to the problem. Be part of the solution.

"Some woman get it, and some woman will never get it. Who are you to teach those who do not understand. That is their problem."

So, when I see people struggling, hear them complaining, I should do nothing to help whem I have the inclination, ability, and resources to do so? Many people have helped me in many ways over the years. Some unasked for. Some I did not appriciate until much later. Without their caring and desire to help I would not be as successfull as I am. Sorry, I am too caring and empathec to just walk by and do nothing when I can have an impact. If you dont want my advice, ignore it.

I have yet to see any arguments from you that any of my concepts or points are wrong, why they are wrong and how to better address the problem. All I get from your posts is I am wrong about everything because I am a guy.

sometimes you guys think you are being "helpful" and really sometimes it just comes off the wrong way. if you really want to help someone make an appt and go see them lol

Another great example of someone who does not or will not take the time and effort to understand or be helpfull before making a fool out of them selves. Heaven forbid you should bother to put what someone says in context or understand them. I bet your a great lawyer, You should consider politics.

This is great advice ladies. If you would just lower your prices from $200 down to $199, you will be turning them away at the door! I have seen this work! I held off on seeing Carrie Hillcrest until she ran her $599.99 special last year. When I saw that "5" I finally got off my ass.

I am not sure why you ladies are upset. When a 19 year-old provider told me I was running my law firm all wrong, I listened to her. I figured that her experience running a business and getting acquainted with the legal system and an attorney made her an expert in my area. Originally Posted by BigEddie

So, educate me. I completly agree there are nuances of this business that skew or make it hard to see the application of standard business pratices. And your right, some may not apply at all. But,there are some fundimentals that do apply... Originally Posted by Bubba3452

I explained in my post in the other thread here, normal market forces are not in effect, the hobby is not an efficient or rational market. Therefore much of your analysis does not apply.

1) The Hobby is an underground market which skews normal consumer and supplier marker forces.

2) The Hobby is an entertainment industry where where 'value' is very subjective to each individual taste (more like the faddish fashion industry). Hence the reason why most providers struggle to create a regular client base when most clients are into "the Hunt." And unlike a Rock Band that creates a fan base by releasing consistently NEW music, there is only so much a provider can do to create a "new and improved" experience for their clients.

3) Once again I reiterate, we in the Hobby are playing with some of the most powerful emotions known to humans. As such, emotional forces drive this "market" more than rational ones such as the emotional basis of pricing, activity preferences, and the drive so many clients have for new unreviewed hotties.

From the close of my earlier post:

Ours is a complex community, driven by complex and exceptionally strong emotions.

Learn to deal with it. Originally Posted by DFK Hunter

This is great advice ladies. If you would just lower your prices from $200 down to $199, you will be turning them away at the door! I have seen this work! I held off on seeing Carrie Hillcrest until she ran her $599.99 special last year. When I saw that "5" I finally got off my ass.

I am not sure why you ladies are upset. When a 19 year-old provider told me I was running my law firm all wrong, I listened to her. I figured that her experience running a business and getting acquainted with the legal system and an attorney made her an expert in my area. Originally Posted by BigEddie

Hahaha. I don't know you, but you just made me laugh and turned me on at the same time.

Bubba, your empathy is certainly appreciated, but we can't just "show" or "tell" you why your advice on how to run our businesses doesn't really sit well with us. You have to live it to understand. Put an ad up. Sell yourself to a couple of ladies that you may or may not be attracted to, do all the TCB and BCD required, with a smile, and deal with whatever comes your way. THEN come give us advice on how to run our business. You're being purposefully obtuse when you say "tell me" or "show me". We can't. Go do it and show yourself.

Stop getting upset because ladies that didn't even ask for your advice are not throwing themselves at your feet in thanks for your awesome wisdom. The girls you are trying to help aren't listening anyway. If you REALLY want to help some girls run their business, hook them up with a retired provider, or one that has been around a while that knows what she is doing and is willing to share that knowledge. THAT would be useful. Very useful. Talking to all of us like we are idiots is not.

I explained in my post in the other thread here, normal market forces are not in effect, the hobby is not an efficient or rational market. Therefore much of your analysis does not apply.

1) The Hobby is an underground market which skews normal consumer and supplier marker forces.

2) The Hobby is an entertainment industry where where 'value' is very subjective to each individual taste (more like the faddish fashion industry). Hence the reason why most providers struggle to create a regular client base when most clients are into "the Hunt." And unlike a Rock Band that creates a fan base by releasing consistently NEW music, there is only so much a provider can do to create a "new and improved" experience for their clients.

3) Once again I reiterate, we in the Hobby are playing with some of the most powerful emotions known to humans. As such, emotional forces drive this "market" more than rational ones such as the emotional basis of pricing, activity preferences, and the drive so many clients have for new unreviewed hotties.

From the close of my earlier post: Originally Posted by DFK Hunter

great post!! i think this should be the automated response when this subject comes up again!

Another great example of someone who does not or will not take the time and effort to understand or be helpfull before making a fool out of them selves. Heaven forbid you should bother to put what someone says in context or understand them. I bet your a great lawyer, You should consider politics. Originally Posted by Bubba3452

You take youself way too seriously and look down upon the rest of us way too much. I read enough of you manifesto to know I was taking it out of context. I was just having some over-the-top fun. If you don't like it (and I knew you wouldn't), I don't care.

There is some good advice in some of what you said, but stop acting like the sky has fallen just because not every lady appreciates your wisdom.