Sealthing or Assault?

Definitely assault (btw, can't spell assault without a-s-s). Any guy that does this is a dirtbag, plain and simple.

It's definitely rape. Unfortunately this board has its share of rapist who prey on the new providers. I have heard too many complaints about guys who pull off the coat when the girl turns their back

Shouldn't this be in the ladies only section, discussed and educated there? All you're gonna get in here are mostly hypocrites that agree and BB providers on the DL

Never forget that the hobby is extremely dangerous for many different reasons, just add this to the bag of dangers

Some girls don't even know what the powder room or ladies only area even is or where to find it. I think this is properly placed... Yes you can add it to the bag of dangers but this is a whole new level of danger...now we can't even trust certain positions even covered because if this...

This is not your typical hobby danger..more and more guys are taking the condom off without you knowing....I'm checking all the time for the rubber almost too much ...

This is not one of those things i would think that DL bb providers would be okay with... They did not agree to the bb because they weren't given the choice to.

If something is consensual, all parties are in agreement that they approve of it.

Some are even trying to change the laws to include this as "Nonconsensual condom removal" or sexual assault. Originally Posted by ~Ze~

I have no idea on the legality aspect of this. Many people are claiming that it's either assault or rape. Does anybody actually know if there is any kind of enforceable law that would address removing a condom during an otherwise consensual sexual encounter?
How on earth could this ever be proven?

Funny. I also read the aforementioned CNN article.

It's assault. The sex was consensual, but with the agreement of the raincoat. It's some shady shit, and a guy doing that deserves to get taken out back...

It does remind me tho of an ex of an old buddy of mine. Turns out she had been sabotaging condoms because she wanted to get pregnant. He felt completely taken advantage of. He didn't realize at first...and he wasn't pushing her to take off the protection "because it felt better" and "is more intimate." He was responsible.

She was bad news tho, because it came out later she was cheating on him and sabotaging those condoms, too. He told me after that, he's always used his own condoms, and no longer thought it was so sweet when partners put them on him.

All kinds of uncool out there.

LnH

I damn near saw a military police officer get away with rape charges.. .he was running fake prostitution stings and sexually assaulting providers... Originally Posted by Analeese

I'm confused. Are you saying he's a "military man" but masquerading as a "vice officer?"

It shouldn't be a difficult question, but I think it may be. But as I read Tex. Penal Code 22.011(b)(5), it says

(b) A sexual assault under Subsection (a)(1) is without the consent of the other person if:

(5) the other person has not consented and the actor knows the other person is unaware that the sexual assault is occurring;

I think you argue that whatever act occurred that meets the criteria of 1(a) was agreed to with protection. Absent protection, there is no agreement, thus it is assaultive, and doing it surreptitiously makes the recipient "unaware". However, that's probably not the situation that section of the statute was written far and that requires some, but not much, flexibility,it's to fit the hopefully hypothetical scenario into this outlines of the statute.

Plus, you may have a credibility issue is the complainant has to admit an initio that she was violating another portion of the criminal code by engaging in prostitution. It's not fair, but that fact is going to make your average gutless prosecutor blanch and get cold feet. And unless you can keep that fact out of evidence, it will cost you sone verdicts.

And proof of what actually happened "beyond a reasonable doubt" is hard to achieve in a he said/she said type case with little, if any 0hysical evidence and no eye witnesses.

However, it would pretty clearly be civil assault. But most johns are probably judgment proof and no one will take the case in a contingent fee. So it's going to be tough to get a lawyer unless you pay up front, and even if you prevail, you likely won't collect on the judgment.

I'm confused. Are you saying he's a "military man" but masquerading as a "vice officer?" Originally Posted by andymarksman

I'm saying he was an actual military police officer in the US Army....using his position to lure escorts to military housing areas for appts and then claim it was a prostitution sting.

Did it happen to you ?

Ze,

I am of two minds on this. On one hand, the less the government or in this case the law, remains out of the bedroom the better. With the all the claims, false ones mind you, of rape, date rape etc its getting to the point one needs a signed consent form or contract on before fucking someone. Personal responsibility would dictate that if someone chooses to sleep with someone, they are accepting the risks of that choice be it a disease, unwanted child etc.

Then of course, the other hand is putting someone elses life at risk by doing something of that nature and I can see where that would be assault or some other classification of attempted bodily harm. I would not call it rape though. What would be next? Kissing someone in the wrong way or not eating pussy or sucking dick in the manner expected?

I think that the only 'legal' issue would be if the person doing it knows they have something and are knowingly endangering their partner. There have been numerous cases where someone who was HIV positive and knew it were charged with a variety of crimes against their partner.

Interesting debate topic.... but put me into the personal responsibility risk assumption unless the person doing it knows or suspects they may have something that they could pass along category for now. I don't think it rises to the need to be a law or designated a crime otherwise. Major breech of protocol and unacceptable behavior, but not criminal unless there is an specific risk involved.

Ze,

I am of two minds on this. On one hand, the less the government or in this case the law, remains out of the bedroom the better. With the all the claims, false ones mind you, of rape, date rape etc its getting to the point one needs a signed consent form or contract on before fucking someone. Personal responsibility would dictate that if someone chooses to sleep with someone, they are accepting the risks of that choice be it a disease, unwanted child etc.

Then of course, the other hand is putting someone elses life at risk by doing something of that nature and I can see where that would be assault or some other classification of attempted bodily harm. I would not call it rape though. What would be next? Kissing someone in the wrong way or not eating pussy or sucking dick in the manner expected?

I think that the only 'legal' issue would be if the person doing it knows they have something and are knowingly endangering their partner. There have been numerous cases where someone who was HIV positive and knew it were charged with a variety of crimes against their partner.

Interesting debate topic.... but put me into the personal responsibility risk assumption unless the person doing it knows or suspects they may have something that they could pass along category for now. I don't think it rises to the need to be a law or designated a crime otherwise. Major breech of protocol and unacceptable behavior, but not criminal unless there is an specific risk involved. Originally Posted by TexasDave555

When you day specific risk, I think you mean that a person is aware of a condition. If you know you have a condition, you probably shouldn't be fucking until that is resolved and or you should also inform any potential partner. They may not feel that even wearing a condom will reduce the risk enough, given a known condition.

Condoms are to reduce the risk about the unknown as well.

However, if you insist on there being a specific risk, men all carry the potential STD known as pregnancy in each and every load.


There's a chance that condoms break. However, men who remove a condom unbeknownst to their partner should be castrated.

To kisssing and bodily harm & what is next. Where is the line?

It's about consent. A girl may go on a date with you in RL not in the hobby. You can try to kiss her. She may let you. You then my kiss her again with more...let's say with more passion. She gently pulls away. That means the light kiss on the cheek or lips was ok but the second time with all the tongue was not. That means she doesn't consent and you should stop.



She may want to have sex with you, but with a condom. FUCK YEAAHHH.... she is consenting to sex with a condom not just to the sex. THE DETAILS ARE IMPORTANT. Caveats like "no glove, no love" can't be ignored.I don't think anyone would argue that agreeing to regular vaginal Intercourse DOES NOT automatically green lights anal sex, right?

When you begin to have sex with a condom, and remove it without her knowledge, that is synonymous of doing something that is without her consent.

Flip it back......WE men would be pissed as HAYELL, as many have been in the past, if a girl poked a pin hole through a condom in order to trap a guy with a kid.

We wrap up and 9 months later are lives are completely upended.

How can you argur this is in any way different?

I seem to recall a dickhead in Collin County, I think he was a French national. He infected multiple women with HIV. He- KNEW HE WAS POSITIVE!!!!!.He did get significant prison time as he should.

I think that the only 'legal' issue would be if the person doing it knows they have something and are knowingly endangering their partner. Originally Posted by TexasDave555

I kinda read this as "it isn't assault as long as no one gets hurt".

Ze when are you coming to Florida