Slavery may have been a factor, but it was not the cause. We are getting off point, which was the meaning of the Confederate Flag, and it has nothing to do with racism.
And, the original topic of this Thread was the Supreme Courts Gay marriage decision, but there are many, many changes taking place.
By the way, anyone have a chance to read Dylan Roof's Manifesto? Quite interesting.
- Autumn Bolan
- 07-03-2015, 09:23 AM
- eddie12148
- 07-04-2015, 05:36 PM
Our country is fucked.
- Firehawk
- 07-05-2015, 12:00 PM
We deserve what we get. Voter apathy is at an all time low, and there's a segment of the population that is more influenced by 15 second sound bites rather than taking the time to understand the real issues that matter most. And the powers that be absolutely love that.. Let the sheeple obsess over some he that turned barely into a she or focus on whatever current slut/himbo of the month is wearing or who they are doing...
- Autumn Bolan
- 07-16-2015, 10:56 PM
Mark Twain once said if voting counted for anything, they wouldn't let us do it, or something to that effect.
On the subject of Gay Marriage, I have plenty of GLBT Conservative friends, and none of them are interested in getting married. Many are Christians, who openly loathe Obama, and what he's doing to this country.
On the subject of Gay Marriage, I have plenty of GLBT Conservative friends, and none of them are interested in getting married. Many are Christians, who openly loathe Obama, and what he's doing to this country.
- Autumn Bolan
- 07-16-2015, 11:01 PM
Also the Stars and Bars it's a battle flag and not the true Confederate Flag. Confederate Flag looks like this...
Attached Images
images.jpg (6.3 KB, 76 views)
- TwoMinuteTim
- 07-17-2015, 06:55 AM
Not only are those monuments reflective of serious slavery...but on the back of the $1 bill we pay credence to them lol.
- Autumn Bolan
- 07-17-2015, 07:17 AM
Maybe if we ban/erase them all, it will be like it never happened. We can just rewrite US History.
- TwoMinuteTim
- 07-17-2015, 07:20 AM
Read what you posted again. What is the "KEY" interest in their succession? It is not slavery, it is the preservation of their economy.
"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery" - While it is identified WITH slavery, it is in essence not slavery.
See, the North was industrialized its economy was booming because of industrialization and technological advancements. The South on the other hand, their economy was agrarian and only profitable based on the availability of slave labor. Everything is about money, always, that is a pretty accurate statement unfortunately. If someone had gone to a plantation owner and said. "I'm an innovator and I have invented a machine that will separate cotton from seeds 10 times faster than using slaves and what you are doing now. I also have a machine that will pick cotton 1000x faster than manual labor and I can sell you all of this for 1/2 of what it costs you to keep slaves for a year". Well I can almost guarantee that the plantation owner innovates, gets rid of his slaves, and upgrades his operations. Keeping slaves was an expensive affair. You have to house them, feed them, provide them medical services (granted not great service but slaves were property and an investment, nobody wants to lose their investment).
If you eliminate the need and purpose of the slave then you eliminate slavery. The civil war sent this nation back decades, if not a century, it was incredibly damaging to the nation as a whole and decimated southern infrastructure. Additionally, during the reconstruction era the South dealt with immensely punitive political ramifications, something that Lincoln would have strongly objected to had he been alive. A valid argument can be made that absent the civil war slavery would have gone away on its own. Some argue that because of the way slavery ended it created the deep seated hatred and resentment that the south maintained for generations. Once slaves were freed they had no where to go, no jobs, no money, no food, no clothing, no housing...nothing. The only thing freed slaves had was the ability to work and most ended up staying right on the plantation and working for nothing in exchange for room and bored or they earned measly salaries that were not enough to even cover basic costs. To make matters worse the abrupt end to slavery eliminated the incentive of slave owners to protect their "investment", eliminating the need to ensure they stayed healthy. There are many MANY positions and books that go a long way to explain how the South was much much worse for freed slaves over the next few decades then it was when they were actually property.
If the civil war had been avoided and slavery had been allowed to naturally dissolve one has to wonder if 100+ years of racial conflict and tension might have been avoided. Things like Jim Crow laws may have never existed. The first mechanical cotton picker became available in 1944, and while it was only a single row harvester it replaced the need for 40 hand laborers. By the early 1900's the first somewhat modern version of the cotton gin had also been created. By 1920 the first sugarcane harvesters were already at work. One has to wonder if we had avoided the civil war would have these innovations come earlier? The civil war ended in 1865. I personally wonder if 35 years of indentured servitude (which in many counts was WORSE than slavery) was better than allowing innovation to end slavery which more than likely would have happened by the turn of the century.
"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery" - While it is identified WITH slavery, it is in essence not slavery.
See, the North was industrialized its economy was booming because of industrialization and technological advancements. The South on the other hand, their economy was agrarian and only profitable based on the availability of slave labor. Everything is about money, always, that is a pretty accurate statement unfortunately. If someone had gone to a plantation owner and said. "I'm an innovator and I have invented a machine that will separate cotton from seeds 10 times faster than using slaves and what you are doing now. I also have a machine that will pick cotton 1000x faster than manual labor and I can sell you all of this for 1/2 of what it costs you to keep slaves for a year". Well I can almost guarantee that the plantation owner innovates, gets rid of his slaves, and upgrades his operations. Keeping slaves was an expensive affair. You have to house them, feed them, provide them medical services (granted not great service but slaves were property and an investment, nobody wants to lose their investment).
If you eliminate the need and purpose of the slave then you eliminate slavery. The civil war sent this nation back decades, if not a century, it was incredibly damaging to the nation as a whole and decimated southern infrastructure. Additionally, during the reconstruction era the South dealt with immensely punitive political ramifications, something that Lincoln would have strongly objected to had he been alive. A valid argument can be made that absent the civil war slavery would have gone away on its own. Some argue that because of the way slavery ended it created the deep seated hatred and resentment that the south maintained for generations. Once slaves were freed they had no where to go, no jobs, no money, no food, no clothing, no housing...nothing. The only thing freed slaves had was the ability to work and most ended up staying right on the plantation and working for nothing in exchange for room and bored or they earned measly salaries that were not enough to even cover basic costs. To make matters worse the abrupt end to slavery eliminated the incentive of slave owners to protect their "investment", eliminating the need to ensure they stayed healthy. There are many MANY positions and books that go a long way to explain how the South was much much worse for freed slaves over the next few decades then it was when they were actually property.
If the civil war had been avoided and slavery had been allowed to naturally dissolve one has to wonder if 100+ years of racial conflict and tension might have been avoided. Things like Jim Crow laws may have never existed. The first mechanical cotton picker became available in 1944, and while it was only a single row harvester it replaced the need for 40 hand laborers. By the early 1900's the first somewhat modern version of the cotton gin had also been created. By 1920 the first sugarcane harvesters were already at work. One has to wonder if we had avoided the civil war would have these innovations come earlier? The civil war ended in 1865. I personally wonder if 35 years of indentured servitude (which in many counts was WORSE than slavery) was better than allowing innovation to end slavery which more than likely would have happened by the turn of the century.
- Autumn Bolan
- 07-17-2015, 07:32 AM
I am NOT disputing any of what you said, but what is happening now is ludicrous, if not criminal.
Yes, slavery was an atrocity. What do we stand to gain by trying to forget, and some even seem to be going as far as erasing our past?
The general problem is people's complete lack of knowledge of the facts. The political agenda spoon feeds the masses whatever garbage suits their cause, and for the most part, people are to lazy, or to trusting to do the research themselves.
Yes, slavery was an atrocity. What do we stand to gain by trying to forget, and some even seem to be going as far as erasing our past?
The general problem is people's complete lack of knowledge of the facts. The political agenda spoon feeds the masses whatever garbage suits their cause, and for the most part, people are to lazy, or to trusting to do the research themselves.
- Autumn Bolan
- 07-17-2015, 07:45 AM
Sorry for any typos. Using a temp phone and the Swype App is terrible. I fix soon as I catch them, but right now I've got a wriggling hungry baby to contend with.
- TwoMinuteTim
- 07-17-2015, 10:46 AM
Autumn we are living in a time period when people think it is a good idea to support Bernie Sanders. All hope is not lost but it sure is getting damn close. Also, we will never erase our nations past, and as ashamed (Im not) as some people are, our past made us who we are today.
- Autumn Bolan
- 07-17-2015, 11:25 AM
And should we really be proud of who we are today? The US 10, 15, 20 years ago, Hell yes, but I am NOT proud of who we are today.
A nation of complacent, easily pacified big talkers who are happy to sit on the couch and watch everything that made this country great get flushed down the toilet. Protest via Facebook, but dare you ask any more of us!
I do think Americans are reaching the breaking point, and starting to take action. Is it to late?! Will it be enough?!
A nation of complacent, easily pacified big talkers who are happy to sit on the couch and watch everything that made this country great get flushed down the toilet. Protest via Facebook, but dare you ask any more of us!
I do think Americans are reaching the breaking point, and starting to take action. Is it to late?! Will it be enough?!
- eddie12148
- 07-17-2015, 01:11 PM
As long as the media and the country is run by liberals the country will continue to crumble. Conservative beliefs are being trampled and conservatives aren't standing up for what they believe. They're afraid of being ridiculed by liberals.
- irnshank
- 07-17-2015, 03:44 PM
Uh! Most of the conservative "principles" especially the mythology embracing religious right, take significant issue with the activities that are discussed on this site. If it was up to them, various other actions that we should have the right to decide regarding our bodies, etc, would be subject to further criminalization and punitive action. Anyone who thinks the conservative party is the beacon of freedom should think again. Between the lefties who pass laws because they think they know what is best for us...dont eat this, dont drink that...and the right wing fucktards who think this nation was founded as a christian nation and legislate from a position of biblical morality should be questioned and resisted.
Back to Autumn's position regarding the confederate flag, there is truth to what she is saying, but it is not the whole story. During the civil rights era, the rasicts in the south hijacked the flag as a symbol of intimidation. Never mind the fact...the south fucking lost... :-)
Back to Autumn's position regarding the confederate flag, there is truth to what she is saying, but it is not the whole story. During the civil rights era, the rasicts in the south hijacked the flag as a symbol of intimidation. Never mind the fact...the south fucking lost... :-)
- lprebel74
- 07-17-2015, 06:02 PM