Loose lips sink ships

I am glad someone went back and reread what I wrote. I have two members of special forces in my family, one serving right now, and I am angry about the way that Seal Team Six was used by this White House. Several years ago I read about a HRT (hostage rescue team) of the FBI taking a Middle Eastern terrorist off his sailboat off the coast of Egypt. His girl friend who convinced him to take a sail was an undercover asset. The names of the team, their home base, their training was never revealed to the world.
Afghanistan is Indian country (as in cowboys and Indians) and everywhere is someone with wide open ears. The world knew about Seal Team Six because of the White House PR machine. We knew where they trained, their logo, and how they operated. Islamic terrorism is very much about symbolism. Taking down those who took down Usama would be quite a PR victory. From what I understand (according to the press) is that this team was on stand by for a quick reaction. The Taliban would know that if they attacked and pinned down a US unit this team would respond. All it would take would the wrong words spoken to the wrong person, or a little scrap of paper with some key information. Once again, according to the press this team responded to an attack on Army Rangers. As they completed their mission their helo came under rocket fire. According to the account I read this is the first time a US helicopter came under ROCKET fire. They have been attacked by RPGs, bullets, and probably even rocks but this was a new thing. The mission was over, the Rangers were saved, and the helo was returning. The only thing to be gained was to shoot down this helo. Like I said, I have no proof other than some experience connecting the dots. This operation stinks and for the naysayers what would you say about our government now if this were to come out. I would like to get you on record now so you can't backtrack.

This has happened before; Geraldo drawing in the sand a map of the position of the troops he was embedded with on live TV!
CNN showing F-111s taking off from Ankara, Turkey heading for Baghdad in 1991 on TV live again. Saddam's gunners knew when they would arrive overhead.
In World War II the Germans lay in wait for a particular squadron of the Eight Army Air Force because a crippled B-17 lowered in landing gear in surrender and two German fighters were escorting it to a enemy base. The B-17 got it's damage under control and decided to run for England. They shot down the two fighters without warning, raised their landing gear, and climbed to freedom. No matter where that unit was stationed afterwards the Germans gave it special attention for the violation. Yes, I am a World War II buff.
You don't think that there are people who would leak information about the whereabouts of STS? Now that is unrealistic.

Like I said, I am angry about this. My cousin could have been there and maybe was. His orders and his father are not exactly forthcoming.

And I don't know why Bartmans comments are even germane. My comments have to do with a percieved problem with our political leadership. One that should be addressed before others on the ground die. Would you want people to just go along to go along?

First it was a rescue mission, second how many seal teams do you think are in country right now, third none of the members killed were even involved in the raid on bin ladin. Bartmans comments were right on target because this is just another grandstand by you to turn a war time loss into a political event to further attack the evil liberals. Now your telling us your cousin is in seal team 6, wow you kill me and before you say I did not say this here is your quote "My cousin could have been there and maybe was. His orders and his father are not exactly forthcoming." The only way he could have been there would be if he was in seal team 6. How come we never heard about him being in this unit when bin ladin was killed, I think everyone would would of at least mentioned it if they had a relative there. How come you are always involved in each sitiuation in some way, either personally or now through a family member, your the freakin George Plimpton of the board Personally I think you lie through your teeth.

In this case as has been reported, they arnt even the same team members. The freaking taliban got lucky, thats all, but instead of being able to discuss the death or real hero's we have to listen to more of your everything is a liberal conspericy crap.

I use ECCIE to meet providers. I don't understand why anyone would discuss politics religion or quantum mechanics on this site. There are better forums on the Internet for such subject matter. Originally Posted by BottomFeederKC

Then why do you come to the sand box, it specifically states its for all things not hobby related. If you dont want to discuss those things then dont come to this thread. There are plenty of threads available for the things you wish to discuss. What about that cant you understand.

In fact here is the heading at the top of the page:

The Sandbox - Kansas City Metro and Kansas The Sandbox is a collection of off-topic discussions. Humorous threads, Sports talk, and a wide variety of other topics can be found here. If it's NOT hobby-related, then you're in the right place!

JDB- I am the one that mis-read your OP and I do recant my first reply/comment. However, Bartman's later comments are spot on.

You sir, continue to contribute nothing but your liberal-bashing and your writing reflects that you have not had the breadth of experience, life or reading of history that might allow us to give you any credibility.

Please take your own advice "Lose Lips Do Sink Ships."

When you come back bloodied from doing things for your country that will never be known or written about, then you might understand. But until then, STFU about anything military.

Bash the administration all you want (remember every damn person that died for your right to do so) but the military does not need the likes of you to speak up for them!

I am and always will be Delta!
I am original Delta!

First there is no need to blame the White House for "outing", Seal Team Six. Why don't you blame Richard Marcinko? He wrote a book that called attention to STS in his book "Red Cell" published in 1992. Not to mention "Rogue Warrior" and its sequels. All published a long time ago. My guess is if you did he would love to talk to you about your theories. After that meeting you might have something else to say, again, if you were ever able to speak again.

Secondly your description of the incident involving the B-17 was as off base, over the top and unsubstantiated as the rest of your theory. The B-17 that had two engines out and lowered its gear, signalling surrender (in that times code of the air). It then did indeed have its engine trouble clear up shot down its escorts and made a dash for home. According to an Air Force observer, ti was shot down less than 50 seconds later by the remaining infuriated Luftwaffe escort fighters. It was piloted by Captain R Knox. The attack took place on 8/14/1943, during the 8th AF mission to Regensburg to hit the Me-109 plant there. The bomber group Captain Knox belonged to lost 9 out of 22 planes that day to flak and German fighters. 90 men out of 220 didn't come back to base that night, or ever again.

The unit you mention was the "Bloody" 100th Bombardment Group out of Thorpe Abbotts, near Diss, County of Norfolk England. H was their unit letter, painted hugely on their wings. They were part of the 13th Combat Wing, along with the 95th and 390th groups. That wing in turn was part of the Third Division, Eighth Army Air Force.

After this famous incident, the Groups legend has it that they were then marked for extinction by the Luftwaffe. It had become personal.

To my knowledge the legend of the group contains nothing about the White House being at fault for their predicament.

Lastly. RPG. ROCKET propelled grenade. Looks like a rocket when fired, leaves a trail like a rocket, and blows up when it hits a big ol' target that's moving slow. Guided Ground to Air Anti-Aircraft Missile would be the rare weapon in the hands of the Taliban. Like a Stinger, or Russian SR-7, or Chinese HN-5...Anyone hear that it was one of those that was used? If not your whole asinine theory is shot to pieces.

Number one for the challenged, I NEVER, NEVER said that my cousin was a SEAL. Apology and ass kissing here and you are the first one up. My cousin is an Army officer and I never said otherwise. Why don't some of you people read.

Original reports cited missile (but of course a MISSILE could be a rock or a bullet so I used the word rocket) and not a RPG. If that has changed I have been too busy to follow up. By missile I mean a LAAW, or a Stinger, or maybe a Dragon. Since this is an aircraft maybe it was a Stinger if they have any left from the old days.

As for the history portion of the rant, I never said that the B-17 made it to freedom. Only that it was flying towards freedom. There is only limited space and time that I want to commit to these posts so some things are left out. The point of the story is that sometimes get personal in war whether it is an air squardron or a Seal team. Tell me that it won't please the Taliban to get a piece of Seal Team Six and that it was a bad idea to publicize their participation in the Bin Laden raid. I'll query any Vietnam veteran, did you ever feel like the enemy knew you were coming?

I'm finished answering questions on this topic. I made my points and so far the response have been poorly read responses, personal attacks, and false accusations. I said what I said.

My cousin is an Army officer and I never said otherwise. Why don't some of you people read. Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

You didnt, well the topic is about seal team 6 and this is what you started the statement with "I have two members of special forces in my family, one serving right now" So if you didnt say it you certainly implyed it. SO which is it is your cousin an army officer or is he special forces, or is he a special forces army officer you have indicted two things. The bottom line is you embelished your rant with crap and when you were called on it your trying to cover your ass. You dont want to discuss this anymore because your only purpose was to make it an anti administration rant and when you were spotlighted for that you knew you were done. Like I said before, I have serious doubts if anything you have said on this board has been truthful, you have seen it all, done it all, your the freaking cliff claven of ECCIE. Personally I think you are the kind of guy who would piss his pants if he were ever confronted in anyway. I believe with all my being that you are nothing as you present yourself. I think you probably wet the bed till you were 6. And before you start your "he has no argument so he makes it personal" crap, know this, I am making it personal because you are full of crap, and I hope that no one on this board takes a thing you say as real. The fact that you present yourself as something you are not even close to being has to be presented to the board. Of course this is my personal opinion, but I have always been a good judge of charactor and I can spot a fake a long ways away, in my world you have to know that who you talk to is who he or she says they are, if you dont it could cost you a lot.

What DD said!! +1000

Don't go away mad, JDB, just go away. It's probably time for you to create your third (at least) handle and start posting on other subjects.

Still the same old crap. I hope wherever JG is he is getting the last laugh.
FYI, there were Army Rangers in that story. Game, set, and match.

All I got to say is what do we as a country say to the poor parents and family members of those fine young Americans who died in last week's helicopter downing.

Actually what did they die for, in terms of protecting our country???

I'm a true liberal, voted for current cheerleader/president. But it is time to bring
our troops home NOW! And yes, I am disappointed in the leadership the current pres has shown

People get all high and mighty about waving the flag and saying "We support our troops". Then stop with all that nonsense
and bring them HOME. And the next time this country gets the urge to put our troops into battle...let's "support our troops"
by not being zombies but asking why????

And also, with all this "supporting our troops" nonsense, especially from the right...how about instead of being
so quick to send them into battle, why don't we also support our troops in term of support AFTER they come
home...there our parts in this country where the VA system is a joke. Time magazine recently did an article
that stated 1 in 6 of today's homeless is a military VEt. I could go on and on about that.

And while we are figuring out ways to cut our spending, let's start bringing our troops home who are station all over the world!!! Sure their lives are not at risk, but the money being spent is wasted. Let those other countries start spending on their defense budget.

But no, we must protect the world from the big bad countries like China or Iran.

How many times has China invaded a country around the globe....oppps that would be us.
Did Iran have over 120,000 troops invading Canada and Mexico....opps that would be our troops on their border,
and then we get all high and mighty about them "interjecting themselves or supplies" into the Iraq
war....what the heck do you think we would be doing if Iran had 120,000 troops fighting in Mexico
or Canada, for gosh sakes!!!!

What major power has been in more military conflicts since WW2. Russia, nope China, nope. Good ole USA!
Not saying Russia or China are role models. What they did/do to their own citizens is horrible. And no they
are not harmless powers to be ignore. But I'm just saying!

We struggle, and struggle coming up with bandage solutions to solve our fiscal situations.

But when ever we start a war, something we are remarkably capable of...and do frequently...we never seem to have a hard time coming with nearly trillion dollars to
fight them, like we did in our last two cases

Still the same old crap. I hope wherever JG is he is getting the last laugh.
FYI, there were Army Rangers in that story. Game, set, and match. Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

How come you didnt mention Army Rangers in your initial post in fact you mentioned seal team 6 specificall here let me remind you.

"There is no proof by you have to suspect that the White House put a target on the backs of Seal Team Six when they went out of their way to show off what they did to Obama. If the Defense Department hadn't stepped in old Biden was going to announce their family names.

Now a number of them are killed in Afghanistan. It wouldn't take much more than a scrap of paper or a whispered name for the insurgents to know that members of Seal Team Six would be on that helicopter. This is the first helicopter taken down with a rocket. Those have to be in short supply for this one use.

Wow again no mention of Army rangers. Dude your a joke your attempts to cover up what you attempted to do only further shows what a joke you are.

http://news.yahoo.com/us-helicopter-...070456126.html


Conflicts since World War II
US .............................. .............................. .Soviet Union
Libya .............................. ............................Hu ngary
Yemen .............................. .........................Czech oslavokia
Afghanistan .............................. ..................Greece
Iraq .............................. .............................. Cuba
Yugoslavia .............................. ....................Chechnya
Iraq .............................. .............................. Korea
Cambodia...................... ............................. Vietnam
Panama .............................. ........................Cambod ia
Vietnam .............................. ........................Grenad a
Korea .............................. ...........................Ang ola
Grenada .............................. .......................Eritrea
Laos .............................. ............................So malia
.............................. .............................. ......El Salvador
.............................. .............................. ......Afghanistan
.............................. .............................. ......Georgia
.............................. .............................. ......Yugoslavia (again)
.............................. .............................. ......Lithuania
.............................. .............................. ......Latvia
.............................. .............................. ......East Germany
.............................. .............................. ......Estonia

I assume Soviet advisors and equipment count. Especially where the Soviet came without being invited like Eastern Europe. While we were in Yugoslavia so were the Russians. I counting the Russians and Soviets as being the same thing. I suppose that I could count the Central African Republic for both but both of us got betrayed.

China
Korea
Vietnam
Nepal
Laos
Peru (Shining Path)
threats against
Taiwan
Philippines
weapons shipped into San Diego, CA

You can throw as much smoke in the air as you would like, but no where in that article does it say there was a leak from the administration which doomed this group as you began this thread with. The only reason you brought it up was you thought you could get others to buy into this and so far I dont see other conservatives on this board backing your position, so STFU already.

"They shot down the two fighters without warning, raised their landing gear, and climbed to freedom."

"As for the history portion of the rant, I never said that the B-17 made it to freedom."

Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner. JD can bend the rules of the English language to make anything he says mean something different than you thought it meant. Especially if what he said is full of crap and you prove it.

In Vietnam the enemy had the same advantage they have in this war. The people who are supposed to be on our side, change sides at will. And by the time we figure it out, people have been ambushed. If you think that STS got burned because the Taliban knew it was they who got OBL, and that someone in our political leadership gave them that data first...then you are hopelessly foolish. Those seals have been killing Taliban for ten years now, and you think the enemy doesn't know who has been doing the killing until they heard it on TV or in the Post or Times? Really? Other than Delta who the hell else would be doing it? Please.

JD you are not in a position to do what so many politicians do which is to say something with deniability built in, and then claim you meant something else. On this board you will be called out for that BS. You have an excellent nemesis in DD and he has owned you in this thread. Give up and move on before you embarrass yourself further with your verbal squirming.

Bart and the rest of the board I do have to appologize, by even engaging in this conversation I have cheapened the memory of and pride in some very brave young Americans who have given their life for a cause that has long lost its meaning and direction. JD your thread cheapens and dishonors those whom deserve our utmost loyality and appreciation. To the familys of these young Americans I pray for your loss, I pray that the lord makes the days to come more bareable, I pray that he gives those in authority the wisdom to end this before more of America's best are lost.

VK I agree with you and have hoped that these wars would have been ended a long time ago and these brave men and women have returned home to their familys. To be angry at our leadership for not ending the hostilities a long time ago is fine in fact it is American, thank you for you did it the right way and left the political attacks out of it. Not everyone could be so American.