Which 21st century world leader most influenced history (so far)?

Sadly incorrect. The Chinese have been playing the US for the last several Presidents. Trump is the first to put a bump in their road by starting to take them to task for the actions. Originally Posted by eccielover

Yes, indeed. I just think it is "too little, too late" at this point. Even if the Chinese come to the negotiation table and concede a lot of things, due to Trump's actions, their superior investment rate and the US's voracious consumption rate (and pitiful investment rate) just doesn't bode well for the long-term prospects of wealth staying in the US.

Yes, indeed. I just think it is "too little, too late" at this point. Even if the Chinese come to the negotiation table and concede a lot of things, due to Trump's actions, their superior investment rate and the US's voracious consumption rate (and pitiful investment rate) just doesn't bode well for the long-term prospects of wealth staying in the US. Originally Posted by SecretE

The Chinese government doesn’t produce anything. Communism always fails. If they don’t cheat, they can’t win

GWB.. The Iraq invasion was a major fuck up... made Iran stronger...and the refugees from that region have caused much Nationalism in Europe.His dumbfuckery cost the USA...in blood and treasure. OBL...while not a world leader...also major negative impact Originally Posted by matchingmole

the second Iraq invasion was a mistake. some dude named Trump said so too. recall that the country wanted revenge for 9/11. There were WMD's in Iraq. This wasn't a good enough reason to invade. This was voted on by the Senate so you can't throw it all on Bushie Jr as some dictator.


the aftermath of the invasion could have been mitigated .. by Obama. he pulled out completely and left. if the US had left forces in neighboring allies like Saudi Arabia a lot of the aftereffects could have been mitigated. as it is, Iraq was a power keg of Muslim oppression by the minority Sunni over the majority Shiites. this was going to erupt at some point regardless of the US invasion. 90% of Iraq are Shiites. even with brutal military repression than Hussein used, the numbers alone dictated that eventually an uprising would happen. Hussein wasn't going to rule forever. his sons were likely ill-suited to continue his regime.


the first Iraq invasion was correct. They had blatantly invaded Kuwait against all norms of international treaty and law. what is to say they would have stopped there? stopping Iraq then was right. Bushie H W could have removed Hussein from power then. he didn't because the regional players didn't want it. again more Shiite vs. Sunni animosity .. factions of the same religion .. what does that tell you about Islam? how many factions of Christianity are there? hard to count but all they do is argue, you don't see them killing each other.


the Nationalism you speak of is a reaction of the Muslim refusal to integrate. they are like fire ants swarming over everything. they refuse to accept anything but their own ways. worse, they condemn everything else and want to destroy it. so the nationalism you would seem to equate falsely with fascism is nothing of the sort. the EU did not have to open its armpits to these refugees and allow them as a minority to become a privileged class over the citizens of these nations but that's exactly what those idiots did. they get what they deserve. now they are realizing their mistake. too late perhaps? we'll see. it has already forced an end to Merkel's political career as she won't run again for leadership of Germany. she's smart enough to know she'd likely lose. whatever direction the EU nations take in the coming years, it won't be Nazi-like fascism. it will be a re-establishment of national pride and identity which is good and healthy for any nation to have.

Bush could have vetoed it..Cheney and the other hawks were actually callin' the shots.Saddam was keeping the Sunnis, Shiits and Kurds from killing each other. North Korea had WMD's at the time also. Not advanced as now...but they had 'em.

Irag invades Kuwait a sovereign country.....Then years later we invade Iraq (also sovereign). The coalition of the willing shrunk substantially from Desert Storm to Iraqi Freedom.
Christians killed each other viciously in World Wars one and two.Our Civil war also. Germans vs French.. US vs Italy.

I didn't vote, except to DOWN vote this thread...

Tom Brady

Tom Brady Originally Posted by bambino

5th Greatest QB behind Montana, Johnny U, Lusty Lad and Joe Namath

5th Greatest QB behind Montana, Johnny U, Lusty Lad and Joe Namath Originally Posted by themystic

They’re all from Pittsburgh. Except Brady.

They’re all from Pittsburgh. Except Brady. Originally Posted by bambino

I have to admit I was shocked at the list Lusty put out of people from Pittsburg. Pretty impressive

I have to admit I was shocked at the list Lusty put out of people from Pittsburg. Pretty impressive Originally Posted by themystic

He missed Tony Dorset, George Blanda, Jim Kelley, Johnny Lujack, Bobby Vinton, Christine Agulara, Micheal Keaton, Maurice Lucas.......

He missed Tony Dorset, George Blanda, Jim Kelley, Johnny Lujack, Bobby Vinton, Christine Agulara, Originally Posted by bambino

Lol. Its stunning. I doubt very many cities have anything close to a list like that. I almost feel guilty about any Pittsburg bashing Ive done

Lol. Its stunning. I doubt very many cities have anything close to a list like that. I almost feel guilty about any Pittsburg bashing Ive done Originally Posted by themystic

Leon Hart too

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Hart

I can think of more, but here’s another one. The creator of the “Pancake” block. Should be in the HOF.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Fralic

And the Pittsburgh Kid, Billy Conn


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Conn

The Pittsburgh Windmill, Harry Greb

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Greb

Leon Hart too

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Hart

I can think of more, but here’s another one. The creator of the “Pancake” block. Should be in the HOF.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Fralic Originally Posted by bambino

And the Steeler Super Bowls, The 70s and We are Family Pirates. I didn't grow up with hockey so cant speak to it. My props to Pittsburg

And the Steeler Super Bowls, The 70s and We are Family Pirates. I didn't grow up with hockey so cant speak to it. My props to Pittsburg Originally Posted by themystic

How could I leave off Stan the Man!!!!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Musial

Ken Griffey Sr was also born in Donora Pa.

Ty Law and Curtis Martin are Pittsburgh guys in the NFL HOF.

Bush could have vetoed it..Cheney and the other hawks were actually callin' the shots.Saddam was keeping the Sunnis, Shiits and Kurds from killing each other. North Korea had WMD's at the time also. Not advanced as now...but they had 'em.


right! by brutally killing them! gassing kurds, torture, mass detentions. defending Hussein isn't much of a talking point.



Irag invades Kuwait a sovereign country.....Then years later we invade Iraq (also sovereign). The coalition of the willing shrunk substantially from Desert Storm to Iraqi Freedom.
Christians killed each other viciously in World Wars one and two.Our Civil war also. Germans vs French.. US vs Italy. Originally Posted by matchingmole

what part of i don't approve of the second Iraq war wasn't clear? years later? no comment on the first war which had valid reasons.



so when Christians fight on opposing armies its another crusade? didn't know that.