The wonderful illusions of the hobby... IOP, IOH, IOA, etc...

pmd, during the time you are with someone, if you can't tell if it is an illusion or real, how can you make the delineation between illusion and reality? If my perception is that it is real at that moment in time, there is no difference to me if it is not.

I tend to think of my hobbying as my own little phenomenological reality... That approach follows the "premise that reality consists of objects and events as they are perceived or understood in human consciousness and not of anything independent of human consciousness."

i can usually tell if it's an illusion or not, that is - if i'm being deceived or not.
well, maybe not if the lil head is doing the thinking :^)
and i dont want to be deceived or have an illusion [see the defn in included above].


and i can tell if it's real or if i'm dreaming.
either way, they are part of my consciousness or sub-consciousness.

the bottom lines for me are - did i have a deliteful time? and was it worth the time and money i spent?
if the answers are yes, i may move her to my gvha list.
if any of the answer are no, i prolly wont move her to my gvha list.

was it live or was it Memorex, schlub ?

I agree with PMD. But If she can pull it off and give me that escape then I would visit again. If she can't and I can sense it or tell then I know I wont have a good time so I won't return. I just like to relax and I don't want to be thinking in the back of my mind something like, "you probably say or do that with everybody." I want her to make me feel like the naive- just turned teen kid who walks out of Hooters for the first time in his life. Grinning from ear to ear because the waitress flirted with him a little and he walks out thinking. "She wants me." That's awsome if they can pull that off that type of escape.

See, I feel funny about it. Usually it IS what it IS on the first visit. The "knowing" of the arrangement is really hard to shut off, on either party side.

Once the first meeting nerves have worn off.... oh buddy. THAT is when the real fun begins. My fav visits are usually the 3rd....

Not that you can't have a balls to the wall - hold onto your braincells - first visit.

Just seems to me that there are a ton more "safety and protocol" issues for either party to really FULLY relax and enjoy on that 1st time.

I think this is where banter and chats and a few "common topics" to talk about over a drink help in the lead up to the first time. It lessens that protocol nagging for me.

Kinda like dating, huh?

See, I feel funny about it. Usually it IS what it IS on the first visit. The "knowing" of the arrangement is really hard to shut off, on either party side.

Once the first meeting nerves have worn off.... oh buddy. THAT is when the real fun begins. My fav visits are usually the 3rd....

Not that you can't have a balls to the wall - hold onto your braincells - first visit.

Just seems to me that there are a ton more "safety and protocol" issues for either party to really FULLY relax and enjoy on that 1st time.

I think this is where banter and chats and a few "common topics" to talk about over a drink help in the lead up to the first time. It lessens that protocol nagging for me. Originally Posted by ~Ze~

So true great post.

ze, reminds me of the buddhist / zen / ram das concept of "be here now".
w/ which i whole heartedly agree... Originally Posted by pmdelites

Ze has the right idea. In fact she and I share some of the same philosophies. I mean, I go to the Texas Rangers game and tell the hot dog vendor to give me a Zen hot dog....."one with everything".


(Sorry PMD and Ze, I couldn't resist....and I know its an old thread but a good one).

IOL - Illusion Of Love. I've been told to be pretty good at it.

Edit: wow, that's a very old thread....

Gee, whatever happened to just -enjoying what this lifestyle gives, and not needing to "illusion" it? -_-

/end sarcasm. Originally Posted by ~Ze~

I wish that were true, but unfortunately, most providers either see their provider experience as a job nothing more but many times less, or they are all about the money and let you know it. That said, the ones who think like that and can at least give the illusion of ______, without the obvious notice of a total faker, are also the ones who get the repeat clientele just as the ones who actually enjoy providing do.

Ze's points are why I meet a provider at least once before ever doing a session. Sometimes several.times. Being in bed with a woman 5 minutes after meeting her has never been as gratifying or satisfying as it is with someone I have met before. It may be lots of fun but never as good.

I know some guys don't really care. They want to nut and don't care about anything else. That's ok for them. I want more for my money.

pmd, during the time you are with someone, if you can't tell if it is an illusion or real, how can you make the delineation between illusion and reality? If my perception is that it is real at that moment in time, there is no difference to me if it is not.

I tend to think of my hobbying as my own little phenomenological reality... That approach follows the "premise that reality consists of objects and events as they are perceived or understood in human consciousness and not of anything independent of human consciousness." Originally Posted by shlub

Shlub, old buddy, I comfort myself with the notion, once expressed by a salaryman on the Ginza after leaving a hostess bar, to the question put to him as to whether or not he knew the girl was pretending.
He said she was doing a good job of it, and that is the way she ought to have felt about him, anyway.

A very solid business model. A friend just opened his restaurant. My advice was not to give his best service / food effort unless the customer returned for their third visit.

See, I feel funny about it. Usually it IS what it IS on the first visit. The "knowing" of the arrangement is really hard to shut off, on either party side.

Once the first meeting nerves have worn off.... oh buddy. THAT is when the real fun begins. My fav visits are usually the 3rd....

Not that you can't have a balls to the wall - hold onto your braincells - first visit.

Just seems to me that there are a ton more "safety and protocol" issues for either party to really FULLY relax and enjoy on that 1st time.

I think this is where banter and chats and a few "common topics" to talk about over a drink help in the lead up to the first time. It lessens that protocol nagging for me. Originally Posted by ~Ze~

I think the goals are different when referring to a "hobbyist" vs a random guy looking for a nut. The true hobbyist is in it for the overall "experience", the latter may just want to get his rocks off. The hobbyist looks at the business of the hobby as an investment, the "randomist", if you will, is buying a bag of doritos if he can muster up the change.

Cognitive theory is developing a theory of positive illusion. The bottom line is that we need to fool ourselves every once in a while. Full frontal reality overwhelmms us and we cease to function effectively. In fact, self deception provides us with a leg up. It imparts confidence and optimism that produce tangible results, like health and happiness. Check out "Kidding Ourselves" by Joseph Hallinan.