Numbers game?

Arnold Horshack The cattle are dying!

I think it's valid to assume that there are far more men willing to buy than there are women willing to sell. Or to be friendly for a benefit.

Also consider that the number of reasonably attractive women aged 20 - 40+ is a relatively small portion of the female population. 20%, 25%, 15%, 30% . . . something like that, depending on viewpoint. The number of men of any age who would enjoy a random sexual encounter with a reasonably attractive women in that age range is a high portion of the overall male population.

80%? 90%? 99.44%?

I think "facebook" shows that women as a whole do not lack in computer literacy.....

many probably do fear being tied to their "job" at some time in the future....

men can seldom "buy" what someone is not selling so I doubt that is it.....

MOST women I know that are aware of the boards simply want nothing to do with leaving any trace of their activities online.....

IMO the girls that are the SAFEST and the most SUCCESSFUL have their needs met while remaining UTR with a small but active clientele.... They've met a guy that shares with other guys with similar tastes and it's a much smaller version of what we see here.....

In the last year I've seen more guys as well as gals I know moving towards more select and smaller circles to market themselves in....

That may account for a lessening of female presence... Originally Posted by Whispers

Very interesting point! So you're saying that if those girls were "visible" the numbers would be more even?

I think a big part of it is that there isn't a huge stigma associated with a man paying for sex, or even having a sexual encounter with someone other than his s.o. Sure, men get caught, it makes a news cycle or two, his life is turned upside down, but then things go on, and you almost never hear him called out as a "bad father".

Women, on the other hand, are expected to be faithful and monogamous, and when they step out of that role, as empowered sexual creatures, they are immediately ridiculed, called bad mothers, whores, or worse, profiled on any number of news programs, racy pictures and emails get posted, and they end up being ostracized. Originally Posted by ztonk

Another great point! This influences OVERALL involvement...not just online vs UTR.

I think it's valid to assume that there are far more men willing to buy than there are women willing to sell. Or to be friendly for a benefit.

Also consider that the number of reasonably attractive women aged 20 - 40+ is a relatively small portion of the female population. 20%, 25%, 15%, 30% . . . something like that, depending on viewpoint. The number of men of any age who would enjoy a random sexual encounter with a reasonably attractive women in that age range is a high portion of the overall male population.

80%? 90%? 99.44%? Originally Posted by meldrick

This makes a lot of sense, Meldrick. Your numbers and Ztonk's theory behind them lead me to believe there are just aren't as many providers as hobbyists.

Whispers' points/experiences are also very valid, but I still believe he is playing on a different field. He doesnt go online, send references and then schedule a date. He goes about it an entirely different way, with women who are not PROS. Turning out a strip club waitress isn't the same as scheduling a date with an escort through P411. Are there common characteristics to both relationships? Yes. But the premise is different which is why I maintain it's entirely different.

And even if it wasn't, Meldrick's numbers still apply. The attractive female population open to ANY aspect of P4P is smaller than the men who'd be willing pay.

And on another note, @Whispers: How do you know the "most successful" escorts are the UTR ones? How are you measuring "success?" I'm not UTR, but I was before I worked for an agency and then later became independent. I have higher job satisfaction, more money, better control over who I see and more time for my non-hobby endeavors. I'm happier, so I think I'm more successful than I was then.

Also, don't most guys who keep a stable of UTR's tell her potential clients to keep her in the dark about promoting herself? Speaking from experience, guys know that if girls had access to information, those attractive UTR rates would be right in step with the online market rates. So if you're (hypothetical you) withholding information from ladies for the benefit of your pocketbook, I'm not really sure you can say that those ladies fall in the category of "most successful." One can't be "successful" without the knowledge to make an informed decision.

Very interesting point! So you're saying that if those girls were "visible" the numbers would be more even? Originally Posted by KaraLynnKelley

Nope.. They still wouldn't be close.... But I WOULD bet that it would DEEPLY impact the online provider's market as there would be far more new girls than existing girls.

Whispers' points/experiences are also very valid, but I still believe he is playing on a different field. He doesnt go online, send references and then schedule a date. He goes about it an entirely different way, with women who are not PROS. Turning out a strip club waitress isn't the same as scheduling a date with an escort through P411. Are there common characteristics to both relationships? Yes. But the premise is different which is why I maintain it's entirely different. Originally Posted by KaraLynnKelley

Well Kara, You are totally WRONG about who I see as well as how I see them. In the last quarter of the year I spent more money on independent Providers that are members of the ECCIE community than I did on strippers, UTRs or semipros.... In the last month I've seen 4 independents. Probably more than the average guy around here.

However. In this "community" it is not "fashionable" to be known as someone that "sees" Whispers.... Ladies I know that HAVE been linked to me have experienced negativity just as have ladies that have came to one of the Strip Club Luncheons. Not just from certain ladies but from guys as well that feel the need to reach out and PM or email ladies and tell them how much their business is going to suffer if they attend or are known as someone I socialize with.

So I "almost" never review or discuss those interactions. I have wrote several hundred reviews of independents over the years intermixed with the strippers.

And on another note, @Whispers: How do you know the "most successful" escorts are the UTR ones? How are you measuring "success?" I'm not UTR, but I was before I worked for an agency and then later became independent. I have higher job satisfaction, more money, better control over who I see and more time for my non-hobby endeavors. I'm happier, so I think I'm more successful than I was then. Originally Posted by KaraLynnKelley

Just something my first Mentor told me long ago. "You will never really know what most truly successful people do or how they go about it because they don't feel the need to tell anyone about it"

Also, don't most guys who keep a stable of UTR's tell her potential clients to keep her in the dark about promoting herself? Speaking from experience, guys know that if girls had access to information, those attractive UTR rates would be right in step with the online market rates. So if you're (hypothetical you) withholding information from ladies for the benefit of your pocketbook, I'm not really sure you can say that those ladies fall in the category of "most successful." One can't be "successful" without the knowledge to make an informed decision. Originally Posted by KaraLynnKelley

Actually there is "some" truth in that, however most UTRs are of greater quality in age, appearance and services than what the online community of Austin offers. Should these ladies be put in the mix there would be an initial run on their time and more a balancing/blending of rates and many local ladies would find themselves with much less market share.

I think the primary reason some of us "keep girls to ourselves" or in small groups goes NOT so much to trying to control their pricing but more towards wanting their availability.

Some of the gals I know would simply crash and burn from the volume.

But most of those ladies prefer to think of what they do in a different light.

For many of them, guys like myself are just "good friends" that help them out when they need help..

The most successful gal I ever met was totally UTR. She became friends with one of my ATFs since they had some mutual clients (mostly diamondbacks). I only met her a few times and only time I ever spent with her BCD was an overnight with her and my ATF (birthday present). From my limited conversations with her she was always overbooked and was almost paranoid about any mention of her in anyway.

She felt it would totally ruin her business since she was not an "escort". From listening in she charged a flat rate of $5,000. Normally her "dates" involved flying out to LA for a lakers game or Vegas etc. She normally worked 3 days a week and seemed to be booked months in advance. I've actually seen her pics (as recently as a year ago) in people or other gossip rags as the "unidentified friend" with one celeb or another at lakers games...

Wow, sor-ree!

Well Kara, You are totally WRONG about who I see as well as how I see them. In the last quarter of the year I spent more money on independent Providers that are members of the ECCIE community than I did on strippers, UTRs or semipros.... In the last month I've seen 4 independents. Probably more than the average guy around here.


This I didn't know, and I apologize for suggesting otherwise. Your posts lead me to believe that you choose to go a different route in selecting companionship.

However. In this "community" it is not "fashionable" to be known as someone that "sees" Whispers.... Ladies I know that HAVE been linked to me have experienced negativity just as have ladies that have came to one of the Strip Club Luncheons. Not just from certain ladies but from guys as well that feel the need to reach out and PM or email ladies and tell them how much their business is going to suffer if they attend or are known as someone I socialize with. So I "almost" never review or discuss those interactions. I have wrote several hundred reviews of independents over the years intermixed with the strippers.

I don't see why one escort would care who another escort sees? Considering the main idea of this thread, there are more men than women, so quite naturally there will be some overlap. It's naive to think that there isn't.


Just something my first Mentor told me long ago. "You will never really know what most truly successful people do or how they go about it because they don't feel the need to tell anyone about it"


Get outta here. I know what you're inferring and I'm not going to entertain it, lol. Stay on topic please...you addressed none of my points.


Actually there is "some" truth in that, however most UTRs are of greater quality in age, appearance and services than what the online community of Austin offers.


According to who? How is this proven? I'm noticing that many of the things you've said in this thread can't be backed up. However, when confronted about that, you allude to some secret, sexy, shadowy underworld you claim to be an expert on. I get it, your whole life is a Penthouse letter! I just wish you would provide more concrete evidence to the discussion. Anecdotal ramblings only go so far.


Should these ladies be put in the mix there would be an initial run on their time and more a balancing/blending of rates and many local ladies would find themselves with much less market share. I think the primary reason some of us "keep girls to ourselves" or in small groups goes NOT so much to trying to control their pricing but more towards wanting their availability.Some of the gals I know would simply crash and burn from the volume.

Agreed. But simply from a supply and demand standpoint. I'm not going to comment on the looks and abilities of girls who are almost invisible.

But most of those ladies prefer to think of what they do in a different light.

For many of them, guys like myself are just "good friends" that help them
out when they need help..


Understood. Thanks for the debate, W. I may not agree with the things you say, but it's nice to have you back. Originally Posted by Whispers

Thank-you darlin.....and it is nice to have someone intelligent enough to carry a point through to completion around here for a change.

As well as the looks to captivate.

Be honest about something and toot your own horn a bit Kara....

You ability to post comprehensive thought as well as your looks are NOT reflective of the normal "Austin Community". You are more in line with some of the UTR gals that make the rounds.

So your experiences are also probably NOT reflective of the avg Austin provider.

Realistically, if the community had a dozen more like you things would be a lot different around here.

And on another note..... We've met more than a few of these "UTR" girls at the luncheons over the last couple of years.....

I don't see why one escort would care who another escort sees? Originally Posted by KaraLynnKelley

Neither do I, but you'd be VERY surprised. There's a lot of jealousy out there.

However, when confronted about that, you allude to some secret, sexy, shadowy underworld you claim to be an expert on. Originally Posted by KaraLynnKelley

You mean the not-that-secret underworld adventures that other providers claim he talks about too much? Kind of has to be one or the other...

Thak-you darlin.....and it is nice to have someone intelligent enough to carry a point through to completion around here for a change.

As well as the looks to captivate. Originally Posted by Whispers

I call dibs on inviting her to the next luncheon!

Thak-you darlin.....and it is nice to have someone intelligent enough to carry a point through to completion around here for a change.

You ability to post comprehensive thought as well as your looks are NOT reflective of the normal "Austin Community".

Realistically, if the community had a dozen more like you things would be a lot different around here. Originally Posted by Whispers

Kara I must concur with Whispers on this point. You are smarter than your average bear. It is refreshing to see such intellect on the board. Natalie is another who seems to have a good head in her shoulders.

To me your exceptional looks are just an added bonus on the boards. However when it comes to BCD I'm sure my priorities would flip. We might just have to just find out some day because you do fit my Sig line.

Well Kara, You are totally WRONG about who I see as well as how I see them. In the last quarter of the year I spent more money on independent Providers that are members of the ECCIE community than I did on strippers, UTRs or semipros.... In the last month I've seen 4 independents. Probably more than the average guy around here.

So not *totally* wrong, more like half wrong? 2/3s?

Just something my first Mentor told me long ago. "You will never really know what most truly successful people do or how they go about it because they don't feel the need to tell anyone about it"

Get outta here. I know what you're *inferring*

implying

and I'm not going to entertain it, lol. Stay on topic please...you addressed none of my points.


Actually there is "some" truth in that, however most UTRs are of greater quality in age, appearance and services than what the online community of Austin offers.


According to who? How is this proven?

If you believe Whispers' assertion that many of them come from the local strip clubs, you can go there and look at the girls and compare them to the providers you've met or seen pics of, right?

I'm noticing that many of the things you've said in this thread can't be backed up. However, when confronted about that, you allude to some secret, sexy, shadowy underworld you claim to be an expert on. I get it, your whole life is a Penthouse letter! I just wish you would provide more concrete evidence to the discussion. Anecdotal ramblings only go so far.

Perfect 10, Sugar's, Palazios et cetera are utterly concrete and verifiable, toots. Go look.

Should these ladies be put in the mix there would be an initial run on their time and more a balancing/blending of rates and many local ladies would find themselves with much less market share. I think the primary reason some of us "keep girls to ourselves" or in small groups goes NOT so much to trying to control their pricing but more towards wanting their availability.Some of the gals I know would simply crash and burn from the volume.

Agreed. But simply from a supply and demand standpoint. I'm not going to comment on the looks and abilities of girls who are almost invisible.

Many of them are on stage, about as far from invisible as you can get. If it's too far away for you then get a lap dance, right?

But most of those ladies prefer to think of what they do in a different light.

For many of them, guys like myself are just "good friends" that help them
out when they need help.

Checking out talent at a club won't necessarily show you what kind of talent is available UTR. Not all of them play, even though it may seem like it these days. Any of our club mongers can point you to several of the players in the clubs (though you'll have to take his word for it, unless he's taking one home). One could also browse sugar daddy sites to get an idea of UTR talent, though that's tricky as well. Many are looking for dates, some are sugar babies, others are really UTR providers as defined in this thread.

Since the definition of UTR tells us that there will be limited, if any, information, all one can do is believe the guys who volunteer information about them, ask them to step forward, or not believe them.

I don't find it remotely unusual that a woman in this business would have an intellect that compared -- or competed -- with the rank and file whoremonger on ECCIE.

This is 2011, right?

Some of you know how to scan your computer for errors.

Some of you even know the difference between your and you're.

Kara... YOU GO GIRL! Just remember that by not being a dumb broad, you scare the chit out of a lot of would-be Alpha Males on this board.

Meanwhile, I will be the FIRST to say, I GO OUTSIDE AND PLAY FOR AT LEAST AN HOUR EVERY DAY!

I know that puts me in the minority.

BTW -- KLK; if you want to hear shit from the old days, chat up your Uncle Yssup -- I've got "the card" signed by H. Rap Brown!

Thank-you darlin.....and it is nice to have someone intelligent enough to carry a point through to completion around here for a change.

As well as the looks to captivate.

Be honest about something and toot your own horn a bit Kara....

You ability to post comprehensive thought as well as your looks are NOT reflective of the normal "Austin Community". You are more in line with some of the UTR gals that make the rounds.

So your experiences are also probably NOT reflective of the avg Austin provider.

Realistically, if the community had a dozen more like you things would be a lot different around here.
Originally Posted by Whispers

Kara I must concur with Whispers on this point. You are smarter than your average bear. It is refreshing to see such intellect on the board. Natalie is another who seems to have a good head in her shoulders.

To me your exceptional looks are just an added bonus on the boards. However when it comes to BCD I'm sure my priorities would flip. We might just have to just find out some day because you do fit my Sig line. Originally Posted by Codybeast

What are yall doing? I try to bring the real like a Pit Bull:




But then yall compliment me, and turn me into a cuddly pomeranian:



Not even a self-righteous "hooktard" like myself can resist unsolicited and unexpected compliments! LOL!I call conspiracy! HAHA!

But seriously, If I can ever be mentioned in the same paragraph as Natalie Reign, Sensual Sophia or KLovve, that's enough for me.

But seriously, If I can ever be mentioned in the same paragraph as Natalie Reign, Sensual Sophia or KLovve, that's enough for me. Originally Posted by KaraLynnKelley

Well then.. You might want to make it to the next GC event then because all the aforementioned ladies have been before and will most likely be in attendance again...... and a couple probably on a pole!

Oh... but wait... That would mean you would have to have lunch or dinner with me/us depending on the event... off the clock even.....


oh well.... It's all in the cards.... ya might as well surrender now..... You won't be the first or the last provider in a cabana with her legs in the air cursing me for letting you come while some stripper has their way with you........