Free Photography

i can expand on this further, but for now think about this. do you think its a good move for us to approach an escort who obviously has the money to purchase pics and say HEY Girls IM A NOOB SO LIKE PAY ME NOTHING FOR THIS ONE. I KNOW THE GOING RATE IS MUCH MORE BUT ITS OK I GOTTA START SOMEWHERE.ITS FOR MY PORT

what do you think the odds are that this escort is going to pay him or someone else money for the same product in the future?

ill save you the trouble. 0%.

the artist that really values their work will have the balls to say NO, regardless of other circumstances. While offering TFCD is a common practice i dont think anyone get money out of it in this case they are.I do it on MM they contact me if its gonna improve or add something better to my port I do it but all she gets its a pic that she wont make money off.

to put it in perspective, a MAJOR LOCAL hip hop magazine called up a few of us a month or so ago and needed portraits of Bun-B for a spread in their magazine. it would have been great, portrait time with Bun and a nice spread in a major magazine. score! except they told each of us that they were just recovering from bankruptcy and couldnt pay us, but told us we would get a nice clip! they also had the audacity to ask for the full rights to the images. we all said no. or at least the working professionals i talked to.

sure maybe they got NOs from all the pros and started calling younger photographers. maybe one of them said sure ill do it for free. now do you think that would be a good business move for him? definitely doesnt do him any good, or the business any good.

sure a nice clip is nice and all, but if you come onto the scene and establish yourself as the guy who shoots for free or the guy who undercuts everyone else, you are only going to make yourself look like an idiot to your clients, you will burn a lot of bridges in the photo world.

this industry is SMALL. if you step on the wrong toes, you are toast.

why do you think there are SOO many terrible wedding photographers that can make a living doing it?

its because the client is 99% of the time a bride who isnt savvy about our industry. you can show her a bad photo and she will say OHHH THAT IS NICE, but when you get into the editorial, commercial, corporate world its a whole new ballgame.

there is a lot of exceptions but for the most part art directors and photo editors know their shit. it isnt their first day. you wont be able to fool them with shady business practices and mediocre photos.

Anyways good luck with your hobby.

Bartering one thing for another is what these forums are about. I'm sure if your pics turn out to be "inferior", the lady won't be posting them for all to see. However, if she gets one or two good shots and you get a little practice and something for your portfolio, then it's all good.

Either way, with the economy being what it is and most ladies biz having slowed, no harm and no foul. Not all of us choose to work the hours it would take to hire and pay the professionals what they ask. Pics become outdated quickly....see the men gripe on the forums.....LOL. I know I won't and don't pay for photographers to take pics, as the pressure for them to always be changed is very evident by the many threads started out in co-ed.

This board forum was not meant to be exclusive to professionals, (they have paid banner placement ads for those folks) rather it's meant to be a place for ladies to seek out what they need in order to be successful.

I got a great digital camera. If there are any ladies out there that want some candid shots....holler at me...LOL I used to take candid shots for a well known club in DFW and people were hitting me up for their photos all the time.....I guess I have a good eye or something... Originally Posted by M A X

I tried several times at a local private club to get you in front of my camera and always got a very polite "no" in form or another.

yes....you and about a dozen other photographers....I appreciated the offer and I'm not sure why that was :-).....the only ones I ever let take photos were a young female student of photography and the creator or 3DOrbs.......I'm not really a great model anyway....LOL Always preferred the candid shots of myself and taking photos for, or of others.

There are many ladies here just starting out who might need some free photography or at the very least, some discounted rates until they can get on their feet. If I ever need a family portrait...I'll keep you in mind if you do those.

please give me a call 817-566-4850 paige

please give me a call 817-566-4850 paige Originally Posted by paige

Who did you want to call ya?

I understand both sides of this debate, having been on both sides of it.

I'm in a similar field, video production (TV related, not porn, just FYI). I quit the best paying job I ever had to chase a dream and have made a good living at it for many years now. I have a nice client base and a web site that keeps new business coming in. I work hard for my assignments and have more invested in my equipment than most people do in one or two vehicles.

In this day and age, more and more folks have similar but inferior equipment that costs a quarter or a third of what my gear costs. I upgrade every year and the gear I use can't be had cheaply. The trouble is the gap in quality of gear between what I shoot with and what every Tom, Dick and Harry uses is narrowing. What seperates us is our techniches, experience and creativeness.

That, and several hundreds of dollars a day in daily rates!

I have guys calling and emailing me looking for work all the time. It's the same old song again and again...They are just trying to break into the business and want to shoot for free or for really low rates. Most started out as amateurs and want to take their work to the next level. They ask, "Can you help me out?".

NO! Not if you are going to dilute the market with inferior content shot on amateur equipment for free or half what I charge!

The only way I'll help them is if they promise to shoot for a decent daily rate and shoot it on real, professional grade gear. If I ever hear of them shooting at reduced rates, I'm done with them. Period. End of story.

Sorry for the rant but I see Kenny's side of the story and can relate.

Ok,
I'm a semi pro photgrapher and that means I get paid but not enough to make a living at it. Here's my opinion...
Nikon Camera Body$2,500.00
Lenses...$3,800.00 and counting
Lights, meter, misc items $2,500.00
Epson photo printer $1,300.00
Scanner $300.00
Photoshop CS5 $1,000.00
Studio time...$50.00 Per Hour
Profiles on Model Mayhem and One model Place $200.00+.. ETC,ETC.. need I say more about what it costs just to try to make a buck? Now i'll do TF stuff but mostly for new models trying to break in. I've done quite a few Providers and usually try to barter something or just get paid. Most of these ladies have junk photos done by a GWC (guy with camera) ie...camera phone or some point and shoot. Or better yet they do there own photos with a Point and shoot into a mirror. Now for a few bucks or...? ...i'll do pro quality photos (around 300 is a normal shoot) multiple wardrobe changes, do light editing and burn to a cd for their use forever. Now isn't that worth a few bucks??

Full disclosure:
I have made money as a photographer/webmaster/Photoshop Jockey in the adult industry.
I have made money, and bartered services, with providers for ad pics.
I have beat off to Tawny Kitaen in that Whitesnake video.

None of these things has ever been my main source of income.

I have a job similar to TexAss's and have always had to deal with the problem of new / amateur / wannabees trying to get a foot in the door by offering to do my job for less, or free. Sometimes it's a pain in the ass, and when talking to employers I often use a quote from Red Adair.

"If you think hiring a professional is expensive, wait till you hire an amateur."

Kinda works in a hobby context as well, don't you think?

On the other hand, it is not my place or right to tell others what they can charge, and I've always felt it's unprofessional to complain that somebody charges less.
If I'm not good enough at the profession I've been working in for 30 years to compete with weekend warriors, that's my fault.
I don't try to compete with free, but I can compete with quality, name recognition, networking, better end result, and savings for my employers in other areas, like union labor costs.


. . . . . . . . .


The problem professional photography has is that recent digital technology has made it very easy for the weekend warrior to spend six - seven hundred on a DSLR and take good pics with it on AUTO setting. Prices have dropped in a big way on semi-pro DSLRs, and the gap in quality between them and your pro gear is closing.
Photoshop, on the other hand, is an art., as is composition, lighting etc. Most people take years to get good, and some won't be good at it a decade later. Ya gotta have the right touch.
Here's the problem.
In this business, if the pics are TOO good, people figure it's a bait and switch. Also, the lady's are looking for bargains due to the recent increase in providers, the shitty economy, and because it's part of a woman's DNA to love a bargain.
Add that this is part of "the sex industry" and that there is some nudity involved, and there is no shortage of eager male volunteers.

You are not realistic if you to expect to hold any meaningful percentage of this particular market under these conditions. If erotic photography is your bread and butter, and you are that good, may I suggest Met-Art, Femjoy, Pier999 (depending on style), Or find a way to make your service unique?

[ ... ]
If I'm not good enough at the profession I've been working in for 30 years to compete with weekend warriors, that's my fault.

I don't try to compete with free, but I can compete with quality, name recognition, networking, better end result, and savings for my employers in other areas, like union labor costs.
[ ... ] Originally Posted by PODarkness

Well said.

When I started out designing website for escorts (only six yrs ago) I got a lot of flack from other designers because I started out with fairly low prices.

I got a LOT of emails form ppl telling me I was bringing down the profession, making a mockery of the professional designer, etc.

I didn't feel comfortable charging their kinds of rates because while I did decent work, I didn't have the expertise. I STILL don't feel comfortable charging what some designers charge and I believe my work rivals the majority of theirs.

Here's the thing - my work is as good, and in some instances BETTER than those guys' and I've done nothing but GET better over the years.

My prices? About the same. Inexpensive doesn't have to look cheap.

I believe there is enough work for every level of expertise and rates; if you're good enough at what you do, you'll flourish. If you're not, no matter how much you've spent on equipment and education, you'll never make a decent name for yourself.

My opinion, such as it is.

B.

I have offered to shoot people for "free" since photography is a hobby for me. I don't feel that I have to "recover" my investment that I made for the love of the hobby.

The simple joy of making a good picture or getting a thumbs up from a friend is enough compensation

Really, FREE, no money whatsoever and no demand for exchange of services or any other strings. Originally Posted by roscoe5187

It is the "no demand" wording that I think creeps a lot of ladies out as it relates to this industry. As in is it really free or is there some expectation of a hummer as a quid pro quo on the way out?

IMHO...


Giving away ANY inferior product or service hurts ANY industry because as long as its available people will jump on it. Yeah, it not be anywhere as good as what they pay for, but it will do, or so they think.

. Originally Posted by BellaEroticImagery

NO! Not if you are going to dilute the market with inferior content shot on amateur equipment for free or half what I charge!

. Originally Posted by TexAss

Inferior to what? The best in the business? The chef at your local place may be inferior to say Bobby Flay...but does that mean she has no business in the biz?

As far as any industry? Huh? It happens all the time for folks starting out (or established, but looking for exposure the profile gig may bring) to give it away for free or at cost. From personal experience I have done it/seen it done with a number of industries: caterers, musicians, DJs, "models" just to name a few. I don't see Jay-Z bitchin about the local rapper taking a gig for free and how it is killing his income....

Why are other people concerned about how one photographer does his business??

Just because some guy is doing TFCD does not mean the world is gonna end, I've done TFCD with great professional photographers who mainly do it free because boudoir photography is something they are not specialized in but they still enjoy doing boudoir projects.

I find it kind of annoying when one guy is trying to give someone an opportunity, someone else has to stick their nose in because they fear it will be bad for their business.

I cant speak for anyone but myself but I do know others who feel the same way...

No matter what the business is, photography, providing, eateries, anytime someone offers "free", it hurts the industry. Will it kill it? Probably not. Once people see what they get for free, chances are they will decide it wasnt worth it. Will it stop others from doing it? Nope! It will always continue and there is nothing no one can do to stop it. So, why do those in certain industries bitch about it if nothing can be done to stop it? Well...

I'm a firm beleiver in doing TF* shoots but not with the general public, nor any potential client. Why? You shoot them free once, they will always expect it for free.
I do not advertise free shoots for any project I want to do anywhere will it will hurt others who are charging for their services but in proper forums dedicated for those who model. This is assuming I dont have a friend available who can help me out.
From what I have been told by a few (not many, but a few) providers is that they have been offered trade for services for photos. Those that have done it have gotten the short end of the deal. No pun intended.

In this case, you're refering to ONE. Next month it will be 10, then 100 all offering free shoots for various reasons. Free "services", a chance to see a girl nude and getting to take pics, spankable material for later or just whatever.

As I said before, how would you feel as a provider if another was advertising free BBBJs? Maybe she likes doing them. Maybe she just wants to practice. As good as you and everyone else may be, do you not think even your loyal clients will be taking her up on that instead of spending their money with you? Do you not think it will put a damper in everyone's business. Do you think she would really care?

All I'm saying is this...

There are places to offer free services for those who want to practice their craft or their hobby. Places where it can potentially hurt another's business or cheapen an industry is not it.

HEY I REAAAALLLYYYY NEED SUM PICS DONE.... IM NEW TO THIS AND HAVE ONLY 1 PIC.. CAN U HELP ME OUT?

There are a lot more choices in the Dallas area. I'm sure you'll find someone in OKC. Nice meeting you in chat. Good luck in your quest.