Abortion - remember no religious content...

My biggest problem with abortion is that it promote irresponsibility as some use it as a form of birth control. I hate the argument "its her body" because it is a total lie that the government does not tell us what we can and cannot do with out bodies. Its illegal to sell your organs, its illegal to sell your body for sex, its illegal to kill yourself, they tell us what drugs we can out in our bodies. I think its a sell out to say "its her body". I mean if you want to kill your baby at least take responsibility for it. What about the man, part of that baby is the mans yet he has 0 input into the situation if he wishes for the baby to live. Like I say its your right to kill your baby, at least own up to what your doing.

Based on some of the people I met throughout my life, I am convinced there should have been more abortions and some of them mandatory. Originally Posted by cpi3000

But who gets to choose? Welcome cpi - one of my Dallas heros....
Pretty civil so far DD, thanks folks....

Who gets to choose? I think that is between a woman and her doctor. If I were capable of bearing children, I would want that option available to me. I will leave the religious influence on that decision out of the equation. We each have to live with the choices we make.

FYI: My previous post was more humor than a serious opinion.

The argument about "if you're pro-life how can you be pro-death penalty" is so easy it's embarassing. The difference is due process. A murderer gets rights, a lawyer, appeals, and probably a book deal even if they killed a hundred people. They also get 10-17 years to feel good about themselves on our dime.
An unborn baby has done nothing to anyone and yet no due process. No lawyer to argue on behalf of the infant, no court to protect the rights that we take for granted, and if "convicted" the death penalty is carried out immediately in the most gruesome manner; being chemically burned by saline, or tore apart by forceps, or maybe going through the birth canal to have a large metal rod jammed into the back of your head and your brains sucked out until your skull collapses (sorry about the graphic description, but it is what it is). If only we could execute murderers the same way.

I saw two bumper stickers on the same car.

"My body, my choice"

and

"Save the baby seals"

Does anyone else see a conflict there?

I believe in Free Will (Best thing God ever gave us!). Do I believe abortion is right or wrong? Well let's not get into that. All I will say is I do believe that everyone on this crazy Earth we live on should be able to do anything they choose to do whether there are consequences to be suffered or not.
Free Will, Faith and your Soul are about the only things you have that can't be stolen from you...

Free Will, Faith and your Soul are about the only things you have that can't be stolen from you... Originally Posted by BottomlessFilth

Interesting statement, considering the topic of the thread.

Some years ago I heard an activist arguing against clear cutting of forests. Her primary argument was the possibility of a plant (tree, bush, etc) could be destroyed that held the cure to cancer. Her advise was to stop all foresting in order to save this mythical plant. Okay, suppose the child that you seek to abort may one day become the researcher who finds that cure. Wouldn't it make sense to tread lightly because you don't know who you are killing. Originally Posted by john_galt

By that logic, we should continue abortion in case we may abort the next Hitler.

Ironically Hitler believed in abortion. We will always have people like him, Stalin, Amin, Pol Pot, etc. Hitler (a socialist and progressive) believed that mankind could be perfected by removing the negative aspects of humanity (negative eugenics). Kind of like breeding for perfection (positive eugenics) except that it takes too long for most despots. Pol Pot of Cambodia marched his people into the jungle and systematically murdered 4 million people to find those best suited to communism.

Maybe we can bring the discussion away from the fringes. And political discussion. (Hitler? Are you freaking kidding me right now?).

I would like to see the pro-life and pro-choice sides provide whatever information they want on a single side of an 8.5x11 page of paper. All counselors/providers/suppliers are required by law (stiff penalties) to give each lady who is considering abortion, a single page of paper with one view on each side. The two groups can update their side of the page at the same time once each year. Then require a 7-day waiting period.

That way she has balanced information about the decision she is making for herself and her fetus/baby.

Often women go into the procedure looking for a quick fix without wanting to think about what they are doing ahead of time. And it is stressful later when they look back. I've seen that first hand with several friends.

For me, an informed lady who is making her own decision is not the problem.

(Hitler? Are you freaking kidding me right now?). Originally Posted by BiggestBest

No I am not kidding BB. Is that not as ridiculous as aborting the person that finds the cure for cancer? I am pointing out how ridiculous the argument is. We could be aborting murders and rapists or doctors and teachers. The level of extreme is used to make a point. Sort of like saying we may be aborting the next son of God. Of course we can be aborting the anti-Christ. Both are so far fetched it makes rational people shake their head in disbelief.

The argument about "if you're pro-life how can you be pro-death penalty" is so easy it's embarassing. The difference is due process. A murderer gets rights, a lawyer, appeals, and probably a book deal even if they killed a hundred people. They also get 10-17 years to feel good about themselves on our dime.
An unborn baby has done nothing to anyone and yet no due process. No lawyer to argue on behalf of the infant, no court to protect the rights that we take for granted, and if "convicted" the death penalty is carried out immediately in the most gruesome manner; being chemically burned by saline, or tore apart by forceps, or maybe going through the birth canal to have a large metal rod jammed into the back of your head and your brains sucked out until your skull collapses (sorry about the graphic description, but it is what it is). If only we could execute murderers the same way. Originally Posted by john_galt

Not so easy. If you say abortion is taking a life of an innocent, what about the innocent who have been put to death by being wrongly conficted. I myself beleive it would be better to let a guilty man go free to convict an innocent man.

Now, I have heard people say that its the price we pay to deter crime. First, the death penalty does not deter crime, if you want me to dig and post the stats that prove it I will or you can research it yourself.

Let's picture a person on death row, wrongly convicted. But as the price we pay his is put to death. How would you feel if it was your son or daughter?

When I think of the abortion argument, I think of two very different women.

When asked about the unwanted children of the world, Mother Teresa once said, "Give them to me." I'm not trying to push any religious agenda here, but I think most of us find comfort from the words of a woman as dedicated as her. Unfortunately, the world is without Mother Teresa, and those of her love and dedication are greatly outnumbered.

If you can excuse the contrast in characters, Wanda Sykes criticized those who think women are cavalier about getting abortions. She asks, "Do you think this is something ladies think about doing on a Friday night? 'Helen, let's do something different tonight...are you thinking what I'm thinking...let's get an Abortion!'"

Nobody wants to be in the situation where they have to consider having an abortion. I've heard more than enough (though some may disagree) about the grisly procedures used to terminate a fetus. But people will get abortions whether they are legal or not. I prefer it stay above board, that women get counseling before and after the procedure, that they know the health risks, and that they know the alternatives, especially adoption. In most situations (except for rape and incest), I think a 24-hour waiting period isn't out of the question.

I'd really like to hear from those that know firsthand, or from a friend, about the process of getting an abortion. In the end, since I drag a penis across this pebble we call earth, I cannot bear a child. Therefore, I don't feel I have more than 49% voting rights (if that much) on what a woman should choose to do with their bodies.

Ok, we seem to be having a good discussion so far. Let me shift gears a little and ask about late term abortions. My sister just gave birth at 28 weeks. With alot of cutting edge medical care, the babies are doing fine. Clearly, a baby/fetus at this age is 'human'....and it is a little tragic to think that some abortions occur at this late stage...ok, alot tragic and horrifying.

Kansas seems to be one of the last holdouts for third trimester abortions. I know its only 'for the health of the mother'; but, I think Mr. Tiller was way too liberal with his interpretation of this. Does the mother's life have to be imminently in jeapordy, to justify a late term abortion? And lets consider what health issues are known at week 29 that weren't known in week 20.

Bottom line, as medicine and technology get better, its harder to ignore the overlap in age between late term abortions and premature births.

Amazing how a bunch of men can be experts on abortion. Too bad we can't get knocked up and get another perspective on it.