I never endeavor to change a woman's mind about how she conducts her business in this type of manner. If we CAN change the attitudes of potential clients and show them they have choices they might not be aware of then perhaps it can have an affect on some of the ladies.
But at times this discussion needs to be brought up, often over and over, so that newer guys realize that somethings the ladies might desire are not necessarily the norm as well as that they have choices.
If more guys take the attitude they will not provide personal information while screening or provide any compensation until finished they will be safer and probably have better sessions.
I went to Maggianos Monday night. A place known for very good food and excellent service. But in this particular case I paid up front as part of a package and the food was lackluster and the service lousy. But Gratuity even was built-in.
Hmmm what a jerk waiter. I can't stand lousy service. I undersand your point here. However I like to think of hobbying more of an amusement park than an eatery. When you go to an amusement park you know you are going to get your moneys worth. You know you are going to ride the rides and have a good time. You pay upfront as you would a well-reviewed provider.
I am assuming you had more than 4-5 people at your table which resulted in a gratuity added. However, in most cases you have a choice on how much you tip the server based on his service. If you had a choice of waiter that night (like you do with a provider) you would have gladly given the gratuity. Right?
Also providers have a vested interest of your satisfaction. At least most here do. I know I do. If not for the pleasure of pleasing, at least so one doesn't get a poor review and hurt their business.
I also believe that it takes guys "getting back to the basics" to bring providers "back to reality" and if more guys simply adopted a few basic practices it would have an affect on quality as well as pricing.
With all of the "getting back to the basics" that is going on around here. It's going to be hard to find a quality provider when we are already expected to drop our rates to keep up with "back to reality" demands or the providers that will do everything under the sun for less than $80.
"More saving. More doing." might work with the inanimate objects at home depot but we are humans with attached body parts and feelings and a life outside the hobby. We give a lot of ourselves in an hour. We respect your wishes and are at your command. So what's so hard about bending a little to make us feel comfortable. It's always a power struggle with these kind of posts. I like what Skylar said "The only thing we can do is respect differing opinions and try to find the people we mesh the best with." Originally Posted by Whispers
- Ebony Jasmine Love Austin
- 02-09-2012, 10:42 AM
Once again I almost always take my money up front and I will always provide quality companionship.
- RALPHEY BOY
- 02-09-2012, 10:45 AM
Jasmine its it a tough decision to make for both parties, like you say it can hurt the new girls,
I doubt I will do any exceptions on this, I am surely not asking you or anyone else to conduct your business to my likings, just for me..
to answer my bullet point on paying upfront and worrying about getting bad service from well known Providers , well the odds have never fallen in my favor on this, so I have to rely on my experience, just as you rely on yours.
all i am saying is for me it kills the mood and turns it into a "hurry up and come for me baby" type of session
just like I hate the two call game, I do not see Providers that do this, once again I am screened I have called you on my way to see you, why do I need to call you in less than 10 minutes again just to ask for the room number or apt number???
I doubt I will do any exceptions on this, I am surely not asking you or anyone else to conduct your business to my likings, just for me..
to answer my bullet point on paying upfront and worrying about getting bad service from well known Providers , well the odds have never fallen in my favor on this, so I have to rely on my experience, just as you rely on yours.
all i am saying is for me it kills the mood and turns it into a "hurry up and come for me baby" type of session
just like I hate the two call game, I do not see Providers that do this, once again I am screened I have called you on my way to see you, why do I need to call you in less than 10 minutes again just to ask for the room number or apt number???
- Ebony Jasmine Love Austin
- 02-09-2012, 10:48 AM
- RALPHEY BOY
- 02-09-2012, 10:54 AM
- guest031012
- 02-09-2012, 11:03 AM
I hate asking for the donation upfront more than anything. It kinda ruins the experience, so it's always nice when the gentleman lays the envelope down right away, that way it doesn't have to be discussed.
Just because a guy is screened doesn't mean he won't decide that day to rip you off. In fact that's some scum bags MO. They get good references specifically to do that, to give a false sense of security. Then there is the issue of having the incorrect donation amount, and once the session is complete, good luck collecting the rest of your donation if there is a dispute. (ie only paying for French but then doing FS)
Whispers, what is the main reason you feel you shouldn't pay until afterwards? The only risk I can come up with is if the girl does a cash and dash, but with your logic, if you do your research, then that probably won't happen. I wont say never because we've all read alerts and stories of a girl pulling that crap.
& its actually it's not unheard of that someone got busted after services were rendered. Crazier things have happened.
I think the proper etiquette is to lay down the donation on the night stand prior to engaging in any activities.
Now if either person does not hold up their end of the deal, the repercussions differ greatly. If a provider rips you off, you can blast her in alerts or co-Ed, which will inevitably damage her reputation, and rightfully so. Our name, in essence, IS our business. We will lose potential business if we are known for ripping off clients. On the other hand, hobbyists can get away with poor behavior much easier. Sure a girl can post an alert with his handle and partial phone number, but it's incredibly easy to change your number, handle, and only use other girls as future reference that they had good session with. Now before someone rebuts with a girl can change her name and number too - that's almost as bad as an alert. You all know what we look like for the most part, so a name change won't rid you of a bad past. In fact most name changes are suspect. Not to mention you have to build a new reputation, starting from scratch. If you're the type of girl to rip off a client, then let's be real, a new name won't help, and you're likely to pull the same shit again.
Just because a guy is screened doesn't mean he won't decide that day to rip you off. In fact that's some scum bags MO. They get good references specifically to do that, to give a false sense of security. Then there is the issue of having the incorrect donation amount, and once the session is complete, good luck collecting the rest of your donation if there is a dispute. (ie only paying for French but then doing FS)
Whispers, what is the main reason you feel you shouldn't pay until afterwards? The only risk I can come up with is if the girl does a cash and dash, but with your logic, if you do your research, then that probably won't happen. I wont say never because we've all read alerts and stories of a girl pulling that crap.
& its actually it's not unheard of that someone got busted after services were rendered. Crazier things have happened.
I think the proper etiquette is to lay down the donation on the night stand prior to engaging in any activities.
Now if either person does not hold up their end of the deal, the repercussions differ greatly. If a provider rips you off, you can blast her in alerts or co-Ed, which will inevitably damage her reputation, and rightfully so. Our name, in essence, IS our business. We will lose potential business if we are known for ripping off clients. On the other hand, hobbyists can get away with poor behavior much easier. Sure a girl can post an alert with his handle and partial phone number, but it's incredibly easy to change your number, handle, and only use other girls as future reference that they had good session with. Now before someone rebuts with a girl can change her name and number too - that's almost as bad as an alert. You all know what we look like for the most part, so a name change won't rid you of a bad past. In fact most name changes are suspect. Not to mention you have to build a new reputation, starting from scratch. If you're the type of girl to rip off a client, then let's be real, a new name won't help, and you're likely to pull the same shit again.
- Whispers
- 02-09-2012, 11:04 AM
...... I like to think of hobbying more of an amusement park than an eatery. When you go to an amusement park you know you are going to get your moneys worth. You know you are going to ride the rides and have a good time. You pay upfront as you would a well-reviewed provider.It would not become a power struggle if "feelings of entitlement" did not exist so deep in the Austin community with the Providers. Posts regularly are written in a manner that suggests that $250-$300 an hour, screening and prepayment are the norm and guys need to shut up and accept it.
I love ya darlin!... For years I have referred to quality providers as "E Ticket Attractions"... a reference older DisneyLand visitors will understand.... When you bought your admission pack you got tickets for all the rides..... a limited number of them.. the fewest tickets for the best rides were E tickets.....
Also... in my weird bookkeeping system I expense the money spent on P4P as "Amusement Parks"
I am assuming you had more than 4-5 people at your table which resulted in a gratuity added. However, in most cases you have a choice on how much you tip the server based on his service. If you had a choice of waiter that night (like you do with a provider) you would have gladly given the gratuity. Right?
Had I been choosing my waiter though I would not have been prepaying....
Also providers have a vested interest of your satisfaction. At least most here do. I know I do. If not for the pleasure of pleasing, at least so one doesn't get a poor review and hurt their business.
But at times, a lady meets a guy she has screened and finds that "she just is not into it" with him..... But she decided to go through with it anyway..... I believe her performance is much more enthusiastic and giving if payment is not being rendered until the end.
With all of the "getting back to the basics" that is going on around here. It's going to be hard to find a quality provider when we are already expected to drop our rates to keep up with "back to reality" demands or the providers that will do everything under the sun for less than $80.
It's interesting to see a provider note that there appears to be a movement amongst the hobbyists to expect more for less.... But for those that know how and where to look and will invest some time in networking..... "quality" can be found in the $100 HH / $200 H price range so as that becomes better known and guys explore other avenues then maybe Austin will come into line with other areas..
"More saving. More doing." might work with the inanimate objects at home depot but we are humans with attached body parts and feelings and a life outside the hobby. We give a lot of ourselves in an hour. We respect your wishes and are at your command. So what's so hard about bending a little to make us feel comfortable. It's always a power struggle with these kind of posts. I like what Skylar said "The only thing we can do is respect differing opinions and try to find the people we mesh the best with." Originally Posted by Ebony Jasmine Love Austin
None are true and guys CAN affect that attitude if they are informed.....
ASK for whatever makes you comfortable. I take no issue in that. Like you, I know how to make informed decisions.
PERSONALLY, I get fired up about a subject when providers are TELLING us WHAT WE HAVE TO DO AND HOW WE HAVE TO DO IT in order to spend OUR money...
I think there has been just a little too much of that lately.... Hence some discussion to remind all that there are choices.....
- Whispers
- 02-09-2012, 11:18 AM
Just because a guy is screened doesn't mean he won't decide that day to rip you off.And I disagree..... The best and most satisfactory sessions will occur while my money is still in my pocket..... earn it..... then get paid......
Just because a girl has a stellar rep does not mean she didn't let the money go up her nose in the last week and have an attitude adjustment as a result.... great Providers go bad at times and along the way there are guys that pay the proce before the story is known....
Whispers, what is the main reason you feel you shouldn't pay until afterwards?
For me it is a matter of "Risk Management".....
1) a UC LE is not going to fuckk me and THEN produce handcuffs..... LE using a burned provider as bait are NOT going to allow her to fuck me and then bust me....
2) I am old and round ....... Not every girl's cup of tea.... Although I let a gal know this up front and they say it is OK with them I can often tell upon meeting them that their not as keen on the idea. If I pay up front I do not feel I will get the 100% effort on their part in selling the illusion I expect.... I want the best my money can buy and I believe that a girl's best performance comes knowing they don't get paid until the performance is over...
3) Services Offered / expected.....
example 1- If a gal advertises GFE and is reviewed as BBBJ and session time comes and she decides it's gonna be CBJ... I may opt to say Thanks but never mind. My money is still in my wallet and I am leaving....
example 2 - If a gal advertises and is reviewed as offering Greek and she decides it's time to up sell it... My money is in my wallet and I can leave if I want.... or we can renegotiate what was expected....
I negotiate for a living..... Long before I did it for a living I had a natural knack for it..... It is much easier to negotiate a conclusion I desire when I maintain control...... My money in my pocket gives me a modicum of control here.....
The only risk I can come up with is if the girl does a cash and dash, but with your logic, if you do your research, then that probably won't happen. I wont say never because we've all read alerts and stories of a girl pulling that crap.
yup.. Good girls do go bad....
& its actually it's not unheard of that someone got busted after services were rendered. Crazier things have happened.
Although not "unheard of"..... it is very seldom something that occurs....
I think the proper etiquette is to lay down the donation on the night stand prior to engaging in any activities. Originally Posted by Jamieyoung
- Ebony Jasmine Love Austin
- 02-09-2012, 11:28 AM
- DTorrchia
- 02-09-2012, 11:34 AM
Gotta agree with Whispers on this one. Here's an experience from a few weeks ago. Granted, this took place in another locale but the hobby is the hobby no matter where you are. Young lady approaches me in bar known for that sort of activity. We talk, share a drink, agree on donation and proceed to go back to her place. She asks for donation up front. I decline and say "after". We haggle back and forth a few minutes and finally she agrees to "after". Get undressed and there's knock on door. Door to door salesman selling perfume. Out come her two roommates from next room and all three begin haggling with door to door salesman over prices of lotion and what not for a good 10 minutes while I'm laying there. At this point having lost ahmmm, Mr. Woody. She comes back and tries to revive my interest. Completely lackluster BBBJ. She finally manages to get me up again and attempts to put on a cover. After three attempts she can't get it on because they are....well, cheap. She manages to tear all three. While she's busy with this I slide one of my digits into her holiest of holies. Something feels strange. As in...paper. I wish I was making this up but it honestly it felt like paper/tissue was stuck in there. I ask her what that is and she smiles and says "I don't know what you're talking about". Withdraw my finger and it's covered in blood. She apologizes and insists we can still "make it work". Sorry, at this time, all interest is lost on my part. Now to be nice, I gave her half the donation after all this. Even though no acts of significance took place and I certainly didn't get what I came for. She acted hurt that I didn't want to continue and said we had agreed on the full donation amount. She said that none of these things were a "big deal". Not the interruptions, not her inability to have a decent condom that she could manage to get on, not the "whatever" she had stuck up her vagina and not the fact that she was on her period.
Had I paid upfront, no doubt she would have kept the entire donation.
So I have to agree that paying after does maintain a level playing field.
Just my two cents based on a recent experience.
Had I paid upfront, no doubt she would have kept the entire donation.
So I have to agree that paying after does maintain a level playing field.
Just my two cents based on a recent experience.
- guest031012
- 02-09-2012, 12:00 PM
Gotta agree with Whispers on this one. Here's an experience from a few weeks ago. Granted, this took place in another locale but the hobby is the hobby no matter where you are. Young lady approaches me in bar known for that sort of activity. We talk, share a drink, agree on donation and proceed to go back to her place. She asks for donation up front. I decline and say "after". We haggle back and forth a few minutes and finally she agrees to "after". Get undressed and there's knock on door. Door to door salesman selling perfume. Out come her two roommates from next room and all three begin haggling with door to door salesman over prices of lotion and what not for a good 10 minutes while I'm laying there. At this point having lost ahmmm, Mr. Woody. She comes back and tries to revive my interest. Completely lackluster BBBJ. She finally manages to get me up again and attempts to put on a cover. After three attempts she can't get it on because they are....well, cheap. She manages to tear all three. While she's busy with this I slide one of my digits into her holiest of holies. Something feels strange. As in...paper. I wish I was making this up but it honestly it felt like paper/tissue was stuck in there. I ask her what that is and she smiles and says "I don't know what you're talking about". Withdraw my finger and it's covered in blood. She apologizes and insists we can still "make it work". Sorry, at this time, all interest is lost on my part. Now to be nice, I gave her half the donation after all this. Even though no acts of significance took place and I certainly didn't get what I came for. She acted hurt that I didn't want to continue and said we had agreed on the full donation amount. She said that none of these things were a "big deal". Not the interruptions, not her inability to have a decent condom that she could manage to get on, not the "whatever" she had stuck up her vagina and not the fact that she was on her period.
Had I paid upfront, no doubt she would have kept the entire donation.
So I have to agree that paying after does maintain a level playing field.
Just my two cents based on a recent experience. Originally Posted by DTorrchia
Yuck. Sorry about your bad experience. However I'm willing to bet if you hadn't met her in a bar and rather researched her reviews and reputation you would have found similar issues regarding her quality of service. I'm sure you're not the first person she has done this to. If you had read another's poor experience you would have thought twice before going BCD with her and wasting your time. Hopefully you'll post in her area your experience and save another hobbyist from a bad time too.
- DTorrchia
- 02-09-2012, 12:08 PM
Yuck. Sorry about your bad experience. However I'm willing to bet if you hadn't met her in an establishment and rather researched her reviews and reputation you would have found similar issues regarding her quality of service. I'm sure you're not the first person she has done this to. If you had read another's poor experience you would have thought twice before going BCD with her and wasting your time. Originally Posted by JamieyoungYou're right but this locale doesn't have those kinds of reviews available as we do here on Eccie/Austin.
I should also say that when I've seen someone that's been here on Eccie and they had a stellar rep, I had no problem leaving the donation up front. However not all situations lend themselves to that. There's new and unproven providers. How does one know going in if the same type situation as I described above won't happen with them?
I guess some would say..."See only well proven providers with stellar reps" but sometimes guys want to take a chance on a new face or they may find themselves in a situation where taking the time to research and check reviews isn't possible.
- Whispers
- 02-09-2012, 12:14 PM
- guest031012
- 02-09-2012, 12:17 PM
Also, whispers, you feel that a girl needs to earn the money, and while I agree with that, I won't agree that it will make the session more enthusiastic since she feels she has to work for it. It might make it less enjoyable if she is unfocused, uncomfortable and feeling nervous about whether you'll really be paying the donation at the end, and the correct donation at that.
I also agree that if you pay upfront and are expecting a bbbj and she pulls out a cover that you aren't going to feel that you got what you paid for. Again though, research and reviews are usually pretty telling, although not foolproof, on whether a girl is ymmv or not.
That's why I encouraged Dtorr to post his experience. Knowledge is power
It's hard to trust complete strangers, for both providers and hobbyists. Like Whispers said, it's about risk management. If you really wanna see the new flavor of the month, but she lacks reviews, or you don't have the time to research her, you have to know that you're taking a risk, which is why it's referred to as TOFTT.
I also agree that if you pay upfront and are expecting a bbbj and she pulls out a cover that you aren't going to feel that you got what you paid for. Again though, research and reviews are usually pretty telling, although not foolproof, on whether a girl is ymmv or not.
That's why I encouraged Dtorr to post his experience. Knowledge is power
It's hard to trust complete strangers, for both providers and hobbyists. Like Whispers said, it's about risk management. If you really wanna see the new flavor of the month, but she lacks reviews, or you don't have the time to research her, you have to know that you're taking a risk, which is why it's referred to as TOFTT.
- rockerrick
- 02-09-2012, 12:31 PM
Note that sometimes this kind of experience can happen before you have PA and access to ROS. That's how I was ripped off by my first on eccie.I should rephrase that to shorted severely.
- homer13
- 02-09-2012, 12:33 PM
I've been with providers who ask at beginning and some that wait till end. If I've read reviews and there all steller then I don't mind. I like the compromise of putting it in an envelope on a table when i come in and getting into the meeting. If it's someone I've never seen and no reviews I am more learry of paying up front. I've been fortunate to not get the cash and dash. I have paid though and service is bad or not what I thought. Would I have still paid them at the end, yes, because I agreed to the amount. I'd consider it a lesson learned, write a review and never go back. In the end would it be a push point that would not make me see them, no, I'll still book and see them. As far as push points go this is down on the list for me.