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The only ones who are screwed are the insurance companies who have been giving it to us in the ass for the past 30 without the benefit of lube.
If anyone wants to know about the econmics of this legislation you need to turn off Faux News (Fox) and actually take an economics class.
Remember these are the same, obtuse people who sold you a war of choice and would like to impose their religious belifs on you and put you in jail for hobbying.

For those of you who hide your insensitivity to the poor and underserved behind the cloak of 'libertarianism' wake up to your naivete' and quit being subservient to the same corporations who served you up the financial disaster we find ourselves in right now. It's time the U.S. entered the 21st century by proceeding with the principal that decent health care is a right and not a privledge of the elite few. Originally Posted by rjdiner

HEAR, HEAR

RJ, the reason doctors dont want to accept Medicaid is because of the low reimbursements that the government pays on them. That is EXACTLY what would happen with any government plan. The people that go to the ER dont have insurance.

I agree reform is needed...I just respectfully disagree on how to get there.

P.S. Thanks RJ, all this back and forth has caused me to schedule a BNG! So see, we can all find victory today. Haha! Originally Posted by That.guy001

The reimbursements from medicare and medicaid are lower, no doubt. In spite of that, I don't see many doctors driving around in Dodge Neons (more like Lexus and Escalade). That said, doctors do deserve to make a very good living, given the length and expense of their education. Let's not forget this legislation is endorsed by the doctor's union (aka The American Medical Association). However, lets remember this legislation brings in an additional 32 million people and won't affect the people who have their own insurance now. That's why this whole " government takeover" canard is a tool of the insurance companies to scare people into thinking that this legislation will alter the choices of those of us who have and can afford health insurance. The insurance lobby is scared because they will no longer be able to deny you coverage (pre-exsiting condition) or control (fix) their prices because the consumer will now have choices.
Yes, reform is needed and it should go further than this legislation goes. But, it is a start.

As for your BNG, I hope it was a wet, sloppy NQNS toe curler.

Pass the sake!

Option 2: We could all move to Canada/Europe/Cuba (lol) where they have free health care and never have to worry about this at all!

Strongly suggest everyone watch the movie "Sicko" by Michael Moore (lol again) before spouting anything. You all need to see the other side of the story where health care reform has already worked.

RJ, I really want to counter some of the things that you just said because I think it needs to be said. HOWEVER, yesterday's BNG was just awesome. 19yr old, UTR....I was thinking that the ending was going to be lame...I was thinking she's about to make a f*ckin mess...but NOPE it was NQNS all the way!!!

As I read this thread I'm reminded that politics and pussy just don't mix...

LAP

The reimbursements from medicare and medicaid are lower, no doubt. In spite of that, I don't see many doctors driving around in Dodge Neons (more like Lexus and Escalade). That said, doctors do deserve to make a very good living, given the length and expense of their education. Let's not forget this legislation is endorsed by the doctor's union (aka The American Medical Association). However, lets remember this legislation brings in an additional 32 million people and won't affect the people who have their own insurance now. That's why this whole " government takeover" canard is a tool of the insurance companies to scare people into thinking that this legislation will alter the choices of those of us who have and can afford health insurance. The insurance lobby is scared because they will no longer be able to deny you coverage (pre-exsiting condition) or control (fix) their prices because the consumer will now have choices.
Yes, reform is needed and it should go further than this legislation goes. But, it is a start.

As for your BNG, I hope it was a wet, sloppy NQNS toe curler.

Pass the sake! Originally Posted by rjdiner

I avoid political debates....mostly.
One point, when Obama says "America's doctors support the plan via the AMA (American Medical Assoc)...not entirely accurate. First only a small number of this country's doctors are members of AMA. Second, there has been a mass exodus of doctors out of AMA. Third, the AMA was guaranteed income by obama. It was one of MANY money spending vote gathering checks that obama is writing on our dime. True health care has been and is a problem and needed help. Pushing a bill through that most legislators dont understand is a problem. Also out of curiousity if it costs 3 trillion to insure 30 million do the numbers even .work out, think about it. Also, 12 states.......with more to come are suing the govt to repeal the bill as being illegal and unconstitutional. Time will tell.

The AMA claims that membership is around 22% of U.S. doctors and med students (with membership on the decline). I don't think that its fair to make people think that the AMA speaks for all doctors.

Guess its mostly a moot point.

So the AMA's support of medical malpractice reform is irrelevant too? I'm trying to think of a larger organization of physicians but I just can't come up with any at the moment. Can you? Get back to me on that when you can. They also publish the Journal Of the American Medical Association which is the largest medical journal in the world. NO credible organization represents more physicians than the AMA. If they are moot, what does that make the teabaggers? Hehe...I have a few descriptions but it would go against my normally pleasant demeanor to be malacious.

The AMA claims that membership is around 22% of U.S. doctors and med students (with membership on the decline). I don't think that its fair to make people think that the AMA speaks for all doctors.

Guess its mostly a moot point. Originally Posted by That.guy001

RJ, No one said that the AMA wasn't credible or that they weren't the largest organization of physicians. The point was that they only represent about 22% of all doctors AND we dont even know how many doctors IN the organization agree with the AMA's decision to back the reform.

Also, it was "arguing" the point that was moot since the bill has already passed.

Oh and the tea party people...well, they're just like you and I. They are people with an opinion. They're expressing their 1st Amendment rights. There's a reason why the founders of this country started with "Freedom of Expression".

Enough said on this.

I did not know that doctors are supposed to ride around in Neons. The average school debt that a new doctor ows is in excess of $200, 000. He can, however buy virtually anything he wants on credit.

For a lot less years in school and the incurred debt a person can become a lawyer and sew doctors and make more money. While I agree that there should be recourse to the courts, there should be a limit on damages and since we seem to want government to control everything, perhaps they should limit lawyer's take as well.

Since when did it become a crime to make a lot of money through providing a product or service based on supply and demand?

Since when did it become a crime to make a lot of money through providing a product or service based on supply and demand? Originally Posted by Bull149

Since Obama got elected.

That said, doctors do deserve to make a very good living, given the length and expense of their education. Originally Posted by rjdiner

I thought this thread was dead. But I guess if I were so wrong I'd think about it for a month and try again too.

If you'll READ you'll see doctors making money was never the issue. I emphasize READ because most people who are factually deficient just listen to Glenn Beck and his ilk and parrot their rantings. If they would bother to READ the facts they would save themselves from being outed as factually impaired. I know READING is challenging and Beck is quite entertaining but you must persevere. However, I actually feel sorry for the schizophrenics like Beck. But that's just the liberal coming out in me. If you guys were lawyers you'd be plea bargaining by now because the facts won't support you.
FACT: Since Inauguration the stock market is up over 50%
FACT: If you make under 250K/yr you just paid the lowest tax rates in decades
FACT: Obama is respected around the world
FACT: 32 million people have health care that did not have it before
FACT: The cost of the healthcare bill will be a net savings over the next 10 years
FACT: he stared down the Swiss banks until they turned over tax criminals
FACT: increased pay and benefits for our military
FACT: put the US back in compliance with the Geneva Conventions
There's more I just got tired.

Yeah, this guy's a real bad actor isn't he?

FACTS are a bitch guys!!!

I thought this thread was dead. But I guess if I were so wrong I'd think about it for a month and try again too.

If you'll READ you'll see doctors making money was never the issue. I emphasize READ because most people who are factually deficient just listen to Glenn Beck and his ilk and parrot their rantings. If they would bother to READ the facts they would save themselves from being outed as factually impaired. I know READING is challenging and Beck is quite entertaining but you must persevere. However, I actually feel sorry for the schizophrenics like Beck. But that's just the liberal coming out in me. If you guys were lawyers you'd be plea bargaining by now because the facts won't support you.
FACT: Since Inauguration the stock market is up over 50%
FACT: If you make under 250K/yr you just paid the lowest tax rates in decades
FACT: Obama is respected around the world
FACT: 32 million people have health care that did not have it before
FACT: The cost of the healthcare bill will be a net savings over the next 10 years
FACT: he stared down the Swiss banks until they turned over tax criminals
FACT: increased pay and benefits for our military
FACT: put the US back in compliance with the Geneva Conventions
There's more I just got tired.

Yeah, this guy's a real bad actor isn't he?

FACTS are a bitch guys!!! Originally Posted by rjdiner

You're funny RJ.

FACT: 32 million people do not have health care. In 4 years these people will be required to have health insurance of face fines. The FEDS are suppose to subsidies these 32 million to pay for it.
FACT: My employer pays 75% of my health care premiums & I still pay $100.00 per moth for health insurance.
FACT: Texas require all automobile drivers to have liability insurance or face fines.
FACT: I pay $ 100. 00 per month for auto insurance.
FACT: In Corpus 33% of all drivers are NOT insured. Much worse in the Valley.
FACT: Passing a law will not get people to BUY any type of insurance they don't want to buy.
FACT: 32 milion people that didn't have health insurance before still don't have unless they bought it.

FACTS are a bitch guys!!! Originally Posted by rjdiner

Yeah, well, so am I. I like you anyway, and here's hoping you don't hold this too much against me. 'Coz I do surely still like you, I just, well, don't happen to agree with you right this second.

FACT: Since Inauguration the stock market is up over 50%

Fact: Since the inauguration, GATA has testified credibly as to JPMorgan manipulating the silver market, Goldman Sachs has been sued by the SEC for fraud, the debt auctions have become perilous and China has been busily liquidating our bonds.

Fact: What all these things have in common is that they have nothing to do with Obama. (Bernanke, Geithner and Paulson, now... whole 'nother story.)

FACT: 32 million people have health care that did not have it before

(You're killing me, smalls. Are you really going to make me say this?)

Fact: There is no benefit in this healthcare bill which will take effect before September.

Fact: The government will not provide one single person with healthcare, in any form, before 2014.

Fact: The oft-touted figure of 32 million was pulled out of someone's ass. The reliable stats on this one are compiled by the US Census Bureau, and I happen to have the most recent data available (2008, published in Sept 2009). According to the US Census Bureau, the number of uninsured is 46.3 million. 9.5 million are not Americans, but rather foreign-born nationals residing within our borders - neither the Census Bureau nor I choose to comment on the legality of their residence, merely the fact of their coverage. 17.8 million are presumed voluntarily uninsured, as their income exceeds the national average. The Census Bureau acknowledges that a certain unstated portion of the uninsured are, further, eligible for Medicaid and not receiving it for reasons unknown.

Ergo...

Fact: Less than 19 million Americans are uninsured due to lack of ability to obtain coverage. This number has not changed since the healthcare bill, and there is no promise that these people will be given healthcare due to this bill.

FACT: The cost of the healthcare bill will be a net savings over the next 10 years

Fact: Many of the taxes, penalties and fees will take place this year while the government will not be providing any coverage until 2014.

Fact: The CBO assumed 7% GDP growth when compiling it's figures. 2008 GDP growth was 1.1%. 2007 was 2%. 2006 was 2.87%.

Fact: Playing with the figures does not make for reliable results.

And finally...
Fact: I don't care about Obama. I care that this is a bad bill. It's fiscally unsound, inefficient and a drag on an economy which is already in dire straits. It's a grossly unconstitutional misinterpretation of the commerce clause. It did not do enough for insurance reform. I would still hate this bill if it had been signed by the Almighty Jesus.

This is not a political rhetoric thing. This is not a Democrat vs Republican thing. This is about whether this bill is a benefit to the American people. I don't believe it is, and I base my opinion on a thorough knowledge of the facts. Y'all are free to disagree with me.

FTR, Beck is a grandstanding RINO clown and Cramer's an idiot. Y'all can disagree with me on that one, too.