Another Success, even before being sworn in.

Your post #13 says it all.

For me to elaborate would be off topic.

It really doesn't and requires a pile of inference. I appreciate the try though. Keep your head up. Maybe next time.

It's the classic "scare the racist" move. Republicans have been successful at this for decades. Nothing ever happens, but goddamn, it's always coming.

Every election year, there's a new caravan on its way. And scaredy-cat idiots everywhere always fall for it. Originally Posted by tommy156

I have some great news.

Since you appear to by pro-open border and pro-illegal you can invite them into your home. Support them with your income. Be the light you want the world to be.

I will prefer to take care of my own. Not support illegals for Democrat political gains.

Work for you? C’mon put your income where you expect people on the right who don’t want this shit to put it.

Strawman. Tommy doesn't expect folks on the right to house undocumented people in their homes out of their net income.

And it's not germane to caravans being stopped in Mexico, by Mexico. There's zero need to house people in the U.S. who never make it to the U.S.

Poorly played, sir.

Strawman. Tommy doesn't expect folks on the right to house undocumented people in their homes out of their net income.

And it's not germane to caravans being stopped in Mexico, by Mexico. There's zero need to house people in the U.S. who never make it to the U.S.

Poorly played, sir. Originally Posted by HDGristle

Nah. Potentially slightly off topic but well played.

You lefties want to tax and reallocate wealth to take care of your pro-immigration views until there is a collapse and the current societal class structure is reduced to rulers and bottom feeders.

Newsflash - you and any of your family members will be in the bottom feeder category. My advice is give it a go now and share your joy.

Strawman. Tommy doesn't expect folks on the right to house undocumented people in their homes out of their net income. Originally Posted by HDGristle

No, he just expects folks on the right, left, and center to pay for such housing out of their gross income. Taxes are deducted from my paycheck and yours, then used to house illegals (e.g. in $500-a-night hotels in NYC), instead of being spent on vital services for the citizenry.

Total # of undocumented aliens in the U.S. is right around 12 million by the best estimates.

We didn't double that up in 2024. Originally Posted by HDGristle

Got a source or link to your so-called "best estimates"? What was the comparable number in 2020?

I think Devo meant 12 million illegals crossed into the US during the past 4 years, not in 2024 alone.

Thank you for confirming that there's no expectation for it to come from net. Very helpful.

You can find what you need using CBP, DHS, Heritage Foundation, Pew and Baker.

And Devo said "crossed last year" and used 12 million which was pretty close to the encounters numbers for FY24.

As for GM, I'm not a lefty but find it helpful to understand their side, just as I find it helpful to speak Qanonsense to parse words. Moderate, slight right leaning centrist with some hard right fiscal views and soft left social views.

So many assumptions being bandied about. It's all very telling. I want the actual laws on the books to be followed, and actual immigration reform that focuses on the whole enchilada instead of piecemeal garbage that keep us stuck in the 60's and 70's and policy by Executive Order. Congress needs to step up. And hard convos are required. Until then, we do have to abide by the law of the land in place today.

Thank you for confirming that there's no expectation for it to come from net. Very helpful. Originally Posted by HDGristle

Irrelevant.

The point is government support of illegals is not free for the taxpayer.

If you import the 3rd world, subsidize them via various forms of welfare and government support that is what society is destined to become.

Call me dramatic but the western world we know (some countries more than others) are at risk unless the ship is corrected.

It’s mind blowing to me that the some are ok with the success they’ve enjoyed to go away.

Completely relevant to confirming the strawman

As for importing the 3rd world, you're trying to make an appeal to fears without grounding it in reality. I'm interested to see whether you show stats on how those caravans convert into actual U.S. presence.

The issue isn't caravans. They're for the most part a red herring to gin up fear of an imaginary invasion. And they're at best a minor symptom when you add them all up and then compare caravan numbers to total admissions, and the number of asylee claims that get a temporary admission and a court date. You can do some legwork if you want and go back to the late aughts when we first started seeing migrant caravans of note. Migrant mothers. A very interesting set of stories. And then how they have grown.

The same brand of fear causes migrants to bypass the caravans to try to travel in via other means and in other places to get in before Trump comes in rather than being content to parole in Mexico

I think Devo meant 12 million illegals crossed into the US during the past 4 years, not in 2024 alone

Correct.

Still wrong.

Total foreign born estimated under 52 million. About 16% of total pop. Growth was over 6 million during Biden, net.

That includes a mix of documented (permanent residents, temporary legal workers, etc) and undocumented arrivals. Offset by voluntary and involuntary departures and natural mortality.

Undocumented adds estimated at 3.7 million, net. Accounting for other factors and undercounting, you're still way too high even though we know the total is higher than 3.7 million

Still wrong.

Total foreign born estimated under 52 million. About 16% of total pop. Growth was over 6 million during Biden, net.

That includes a mix of documented (permanent residents, temporary legal workers, etc) and undocumented arrivals. Offset by voluntary and involuntary departures and natural mortality.

Undocumented adds estimated at 3.7 million, net. Accounting for other factors and undercounting, you're still way too high even though we know the total is higher than 3.7 million Originally Posted by HDGristle

Take anything the governments says and double the numbers concerning immigration.

No different that inflation statistics and people unemployed in the work place.

All lies.

Take anything the governments says and double the numbers concerning immigration.

No different that inflation statistics and people unemployed in the work place.

All lies. Originally Posted by Devo

Yep about government lies.

Just like the Biden administration lying about job growth and then revising down later.

“The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) has revised job growth figures downwards, with notable adjustments occurring for the period from March 2023 to March 2024. In this revision, it was reported that the U.S. economy added approximately 818,000 fewer jobs than initially estimated.”

Yep about government lies.

Just like the Biden administration lying about job growth and then revising down later.

“The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) has revised job growth figures downwards, with notable adjustments occurring for the period from March 2023 to March 2024. In this revision, it was reported that the U.S. economy added approximately 818,000 fewer jobs than initially estimated.” Originally Posted by Green_Mountain

That's like a felony if you said that to a cop.