An open letter to the people who hate Obama more than they love America

Gee, I kind of care what they thought, since THEY WROTE THE CONSTITUTION! Might be a good idea to know what they were thinking.

Tim and Fast, please go to the back of the room until you can make some sense.

Yep......that's our BigLouie! Originally Posted by TheDaliLama

Still upset that she has my mug on her counter and not yours.

Anyone genuinely concerned with Constitutional law: unlike you and that dick in the White House.
Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Add George Bush and Dick Chaney to that list also.

Here you go with this Found father Bullshit- who the fuck cares what they thought- if I am not mistaken some or rather most of the Founding Father's owned slaves- you act like the founding fathers were the 12 disciples- get a life!!!!! Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

Funny you mock the Founding Fathers yet are
trying to wrap yourself in their creation.
I mock socialism as well as its imposers.
You're inconsistency speaks to your true intent.

They had big issues regarding slavery.
But that's a smear issue. Most middle class
people had slaves back then. Whites as well
as blacks were slaves it's just not well known.
Whites were freed late 1600 early 1700.
I forget the specific date it's been awhile
since those studies. Nobody talks about
it because it kinda ruins the current pardigim
the leftists have imposed on our dumb down
education system.

Sheik hussein is a traitor to the Republic.
He is devaluing our dollar like no other.
There was no talk of abandoning the $
as the world currency under Bush.
Bush didn't blow the US credit rating.

Sheik Hussein is hoping to share our missle
defense technology with the russkies.
He already had our newest drone
delivered to his friends in Tehran and by
extension Bejing.
I still do not forgive him for murdering
that chinook full of some of our best.

What do you do when the head of state,
is in effect enemy of the same state?

anixmander, white slavery that you mentioned was known as indentured servitude.

Here you go with this Found father Bullshit- who the fuck cares what they thought- if I am not mistaken some or rather most of the Founding Father's owned slaves- you act like the founding fathers were the 12 disciples- get a life!!!!! Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

since when did you begin caring what the 12 disciples thought? (there were disciples and some were both, but usually in referring to the 12, the term is apostles, because even you can be a disciple but there are extraneous issues to being an apostle)

but on a slightly lighter note, the message your post imparts is so sad. its why america may not be america much longer. the education of our youth, should it be in like vein, and in the hands of similar thoughtless people, is at severe risk. On further consideration, some people teaching our youth do indeed think (read: scheme) and have a purpose, and thats saddest of all.

Funny you mock the Founding Fathers yet are
trying to wrap yourself in their creation.
I mock socialism as well as its imposers.
You're inconsistency speaks to your true intent.

They had big issues regarding slavery.
But that's a smear issue. Most middle class
people had slaves back then. Whites as well
as blacks were slaves it's just not well known.
Whites were freed late 1600 early 1700.
I forget the specific date it's been awhile
since those studies. Nobody talks about
it because it kinda ruins the current pardigim
the leftists have imposed on our dumb down
education system.

Sheik hussein is a traitor to the Republic.
He is devaluing our dollar like no other.
There was no talk of abandoning the $
as the world currency under Bush.
Bush didn't blow the US credit rating.

Sheik Hussein is hoping to share our missle
defense technology with the russkies.
He already had our newest drone
delivered to his friends in Tehran and by
extension Bejing.
I still do not forgive him for murdering
that chinook full of some of our best.

What do you do when the head of state,
is in effect enemy of the same state? Originally Posted by anaximander

Truly, where do you get this nonsense? Obama trashed our economy in 3 years? He gave a drone to the Iranians? He's teaching the Russians how to build missiles (thought they already knew about that, cold war mutually assured destruction and all that) and he's responsible for the deaths of the SEAL Team 6 members whose helicopter was shot down? You clearly are unable to discern reality from bizarre partisan fiction.

Most middle class white people owned slaves? Wrong.

White people were enslaved along with Africans? Wrong.

The fact that many of the Founding Fathers owned slaves is a "smear issue?" Huh? I always am amused the way you idiots try to side-step that undeniable fact when utilizing the argument that the Constitution means what the Founding Father's meant at the time they wrote it....an argument that, by definition requires you to accept the proposition that slave ownership is lawful. And that the Africans who were enslaved by those Founding Fathers didn't qualify as human beings, just property. I guess ignoring it allows you to invoke their wisdom regarding who qualifies as "human".

Yes indentured servitude.
Reading literature from the era reveals mixed
feelings. People were being lent more money
than they could ever hope to pay back.
It was voluntary enslavement.

And I do mean everyone.
Blacks, indians everyone had a slave
who could afford one.
The most common ones were purchased
as a gift to help the wife with house duties.
It's why women's shirts button differently.
Their maidservant is supposed to button them.

Lol I overlooked his disciple faux pas.
What a bumpersticker fake.

I almost don't wish to quibble with timbo
due to his obvious ignorance of the
historical record- facts are damnable things.

Missle defense tech not missle tech-duh
The russkies are at least a decade behind
us in icbm intercept technology.
The drones self destruct mech was not
triggered by orders from higher up.
Centcom wanted to smoke the bird
but someone with the authority to
tell Centcom otherwise did.

The NavWarDevGru boys never travel
in such a manner in such numbers
in an active combat zone for just
the possibilty of what happened.
Someone with the authority to
override std operational protocols
gave the order to transport them
in such a manner at such a place.

Now you may grab that gauze thin excuse
of plausable deniability. But I'm just not
buying it. That purple lipstick wearing
traitor may have seduced you.
But my mind shall remain unwashed and free.

The fact that many of the Founding Fathers owned slaves is a "smear issue?" Huh? Originally Posted by timpage

Why is it always brought up if it's not meant to be a "smear issue"? Name one major power - including the major states and tribes of Africa - that did not condone and support slavery in 1789.

I always am amused the way you idiots try to side-step that undeniable fact when utilizing the argument that the Constitution means what the Founding Father's meant at the time they wrote it....an argument that, by definition requires you to accept the proposition that slave ownership is lawful. And that the Africans who were enslaved by those Founding Fathers didn't qualify as human beings, just property. I guess ignoring it allows you to invoke their wisdom regarding who qualifies as "human". Originally Posted by timpage

Africans did own Africans as slaves. They still do.

It's simple, in order to defame the Constitution, many liberals bring up the slave issue. What they don't understand is that they are judging an 18th century society by 21st century values. The notion that slavery was wrong was already beginning to take hold in Europe and in the colonies, but had not matured to the point where it is now. Slavery was a godawful institution, but the Founders left a way for us to change the Constitution when necessary, i.e., the amendment process.

No suprise that the Obamazombies are also the same who don't think much of what our Founding Fathers handed us ; a great country founded on the Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, and the founding principals. A country based on individual rights and responsibilities, limited government, and living within one's means. A country where the citizens voted and deteremined the course of their government and future. A monumental breakout in the history of mankind and the Obamazombies think it is BS.

No suprise you would deride our Founders and exalt Obama; the signers of the Declaration pledge their lives and their fortunes. But the Obama marxists demand everything (from others) and pledge nothing of your own worth.

You are a small voice in a great country, despite Obama's 2008 electoral success, and your voice will be greatly diminished come January 2013. Then it will be back to rock caves your kind dwelled in.

Rememeber: Obama sat in the pews of his spiritual advisor for 20 years and listened to the rantings of a man who hates America and he did nothing ! Obama doesn't beleive in American Expceptionalism. Good riddence to him come 2013.

Remember: Michelle Obama was never proud of her country; except for the one time her husband was nominated. Good riddence to her come 2013.

And good riddence to all you Obamazombies who marketed hope and change and delivered us dispair, pessimism and class warfare.

God Bless America

The fact that many of the Founding Fathers owned slaves is a "smear issue?" Huh? I always am amused the way you idiots try to side-step that undeniable fact when utilizing the argument that the Constitution means what the Founding Father's meant at the time they wrote it....an argument that, by definition requires you to accept the proposition that slave ownership is lawful. And that the Africans who were enslaved by those Founding Fathers didn't qualify as human beings, just property. I guess ignoring it allows you to invoke their wisdom regarding who qualifies as "human". Originally Posted by timpage

it is a tactic, devised of recent vintage, to denigrate the founders as slave owners, and by inference their works, namely a reverence for the Constitution.

Walter Williams has noted that during the Clarence Thomas hearings for the supreme court, joe biden demonstrated that the constitution's framers thoughts and ideas concerning natural law must be trivialized, OR THE FRAMERS MUST BE SEEN AS RACISTS.

there is a lot of propaganda regarding the slave issue. it was here 200 years before the founding fathers.

there were some attempts to eliminate slavery prior to the revolution, which were always put down by the British.

thomas jefferson gave as one of the reasons for the separation from Britian, the desire to rid America of slavery.

John Jay, the Supreme Court Chief Justice, noted that before the founding fathers, no serious attempts were made to dismantle slavery.

the revolution was a turning point in people's attitudes towards slavery.
the words of the declaration of independence and the ideas embedded in the constitution started that long, hard road to its elimination. and yes, there were contradictions and actions of men that seemed at odds with the ideas in the constitution, but the ideas and words were why that tension was there. now there was a standard to try to live up to.

benjamin franklin gave thought to the idea that separation from Great Britain was necessary since every attempt to end slavery in the colonies had up to then been thwarted by the Crown.

many founding fathers released slaves they had owned.

Benjamin Franklin and Benjamin Rush founded a society for the abolition of slavery. John Jay was president of a similar society.

Other signers of the declaration were members of such societies including
Richard Basset, James Madison, James Monroe, Charles Carroll, William Few, John Marshall, Richard Stockton, Zephaniah Swift and others.

Based on these efforts, states began outlawing slavery, including Pennsylvania and Massachusetts in 1780, Connecticut and Rhode Island in 1784, New Hampshire in 1792, Vermont in 1793, New York in 1799 and New Jersey in 1804, all a consequence, and all soon after the revolution, of the constitution and declaration and efforts of founding fathers and others.

The admission of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Iowa as states was under a federal law outlawing slavery authored by Rufus King, a signer of the constitution, and signed by George Washington.

Were there pro slave founders? yes, but the very words of the declaration and constitution and acts of many founders set in motion its abolition.

It is currently charged that the 3/5ths of a personage held in the constitution for blacks is evidence of its racism. Nothing could be further from the truth and is a rank misportrayal. Records of the convention clearly reveal the 3/5ths clause was an ANTI-SLAVERY proposal. It was to restrict the political power of pro slavery states in an effort to ultimately abolish slavery. Pro-slavery states wished to count slaves in their population for purposes of increased representation. IT, THE 3/5ths CLAUSE, WAS NOT A REPRESENTATION OF HUMAN WORTH, but a restriction on political power.

to rid america of slavery and its aftermath has been a long hard slog, begun in large part by the founding fathers.

You know, that open letter is complete bullshit. Once again, a strawman is set up, knocked over, and the author then congratulates himself. Does anyone know anyone who matches the description of "hater" he referred to? Of course not, anyone who truly feels that way is in a very small, intensely ignorant minority. But when you want to silence the opposition, and have no valid points to make, you simply draw a caricature of them, and then laugh at how stupid they are. This way, you don't have to come up with any arguments to refute their points. It's sad, and also typical. And it's not reserved for liberals, conservatives do much the same.

So when you are reading bullshit like this, ask yourself if you know anyone like that. Chances are, you don't. The only sensible thing to do is then to simply ignore the author, and try to find someone intelligent with which to converse. You're wasting your time here.

Waiting for a substantive response to my comments.....

chirp****chirp****chirp****

Something besides me "defaming the Constitution" (didn't you say something about being a lawyer COG? WTF is "defaming the Constitution"?) or not being a good American in Whirlybird's limited judgment.

A significant number of the founding fathers were slave owners. You "originalists" and "strict constructionists" constantly invoke the founding fathers' original intent as the end-all be-all for your bizarre interpretations of the meaning of the constitution. The moron posted up that the FF's never would have approved of abortion. Yet they approved of slavery. I wonder if the moron thinks that they would have approved of abortion for pregnant slaves? If, for instance, it was going to interfere with the ability of the slave to harvest cotton, wash clothes, cook for the slave-owner and his family, you know...cut into the slave-owner's income while the pregnant slave was unable to work because of the pregnancy and post-birth child-rearing obligations. Anyway, I digress....

So...the question: since the FF's "original intent" was to explicitly approve of slavery, does that not call into question the reliability of a constitutional analysis where the cornerstone of the argument is "original intent?" Since at least some of the original intent was blatantly immoral and contrary to all basic human decency?

By the way Whirly, go fuck yourself with your attacks on my patriotism or love of country. WTF would you know about that?

Christ how embarassed I would be if'n I was timbo
or that other rube. A pure 100% sucker.
I gotta see if they answer for their flawed
knowledge of events.

Or more duck and smear.

Duck and smear it was.

Reading comprehension not a forte of timmy's.
The desire to abolish slavery was a driving
force for independence. Ultimately it was
the US and UK that led the global effort
to disrupt the international slave trade.
The USS Constitution original mission
was to raze and destroy slaver ships.

The FF would have regarded the murder of
an unborn slave child as a most heinous crime.
The perp would most certainly had a date
with the hangman.
Pregnant slaves were in effect a goose with
a golden egg. Your slaves reproducing was desired.
What jackass would ab his retrievers litter
just because duck season was near?

Decades from now the proinfanticide people
will be regarded in an even worse manner
than the proslavers are viewed.
Morals? Indeed you know them not.

Just how ignorant are you?
Show me the depth.