Still haven't looked up civil I see.
Quote me where I even mentioned the government you twit. I simply said the article had an interesting take on the subject.
Clearly you are butt- hurt. Originally Posted by Ducbutter
Asshole, I repeat: Learn to READ.Mrs. Kena Lytle Gloeckner is a rancher that deals with the BLM in Nevada on a daily basis, and she has first-hand knowledge of what the BLM has done to her, her husband, her family and her neighbors.
I said her statements about Bundy and the "90% loss rancher" were second hand accounts.
I didn't say anything about her statements about herself and her family. Originally Posted by ExNYer
Mrs. Kena Lytle Gloeckner is a rancher that deals with the BLM in Nevada on a daily basis, and she has first-hand knowledge of what the BLM has done to her, her husband, her family and her neighbors. Originally Posted by I B HankeringBut not first hand knowledge of Bundy and the other ranchers, right, IBChangingTheSubject?
the article you posted was about what, tea in China? you twit?Good Christ man! Are you that dense? The article I referenced had everything to do with this thread. And as I stated before, the fact that I found it interesting, is in no way an endorsement of it's content. Hell, I find articles about parallel universes interesting, but I don't believe in them either.
and you found it interesting even though it had no bearing on the case at present?
ergo, you're yammering... apparently you have no idea about what.
carry on.
Have a nice evening Originally Posted by CJ7
Her knowledge of the BLM and Bundy trumps any fucked-up *opinion* held by a New York Yankee living in exile in Texas, you dumb Yankee twit.I doubt her knowledge trumps anything. She is hardly an unbiased observer.
Originally Posted by I B Hankering
I doubt her knowledge trumps anything. She is hardly an unbiased observer.It was your ignorant contention that the desert tortoise played no part in this debacle, and now you've adopted it as the mainstay of your argument! You lost, you dumb, ignorant Yankee SOB. You've now conceded that it WAS the BLM's desert tortoise policy that started this entire mess.
How many desert tortoises were in Nevada - and how much range area did they cover - when the Spaniard first brought cattle in 500 years ago? And how many are left NOW and how much range area do they cover?
Why do you think the opinions of the ranchers who profiteer from grazing on those lands are an unbiased opinion about desert tortoises welfare?
Listening to her or other ranchers explain that their cattle don't do any damage to the habitat is a little like listening to coal mining companies explain that stripping overburden off the tops of mountains and maintaining huge slag pools doesn't really harm the rivers around the mines.
And It appears from this Salon article, that the US (through the BLM and the National Forest Service) is carrying the freight for a whole LOT of ranchers.
http://www.salon.com/2014/04/18/cliv..._not_law_rule/
Bundy appears to be a demented ingrate.
Most of the rest of them appears to be just ordinary ingrates.
Key quotes:
--------------------------------------
As Bundy musters up an army of supporters for this theft from the American public and the harm to the public lands, taxpayers lose at least $123 million each year that the federal grazing program continues. According to the Government Accountability Office, in 2005, the grazing fee wasn’t nearly sufficient to cover the costs of managing public lands grazing, and we – you and me, but apparently not Mr. Bundy – subsidize the program with $1.2 billion every decade, not counting the additional costs of species recovery, range infrastructure, soil loss, weed infestations, increasing wildfires, and bacterial contamination of water supplies. Despite the efforts of Western Watersheds Project and others, the fee formula has never been revised.
---------------------------------------
Furthermore, the American public is woefully misinformed about the entrenchment, expense, and ecological harm of this land use. Make no mistake, Bundy isn’t the only rancher ripping off the American public. Every public lands livestock permittee is banking on federally-funded range infrastructure like solar wells and fences and benefitting from federally-funded wildlife killing that targets native predators like wolves and coyotes for the sake of livestock safety. Many permittees benefit from drought payments and disaster payments, seek handouts for “restoration projects” that are really just reseeding the forage species their cows stripped in the first place. And most livestock operations occur at the peril of endangered species, whether it’s the Mojave desert tortoise being nutritionally starved or Greater sage-grouse nests being trampled and their eggs destroyed. How do you calculate the cost of extinction?
---------------------------------------------
I know you are dim-witted, IBLying, but did you comprehend that last part?
The ranching operations damage the land (water pollution, stripping forage, killing native species) and require fences and other infrastructure. But, the ranchers hand the bill to the government to "restore" the land from the damage THEY did.
Nice job if you can get it.
So here is a thought: Confine all grazing to private lands, like ranches in Texas and other places in the midwest. Originally Posted by ExNYer
It was your ignorant contention that the desert tortoise played no part in this debacle, and now you've adopted it as the mainstay of your argument! You lost, you dumb, ignorant Yankee SOB. You've now conceded that it WAS the BLM's desert tortoise policy that started this entire mess.More insults. More rude talk.
BTW, jackass, your ignorant use of a fucking lib-retard magazine written in the fucking lib-retarded city of San Francisco trying to *imply* your source isn't lib-retarded biased? You're a moron and a jackass, and Mrs. Kena Lytle Gloeckner's eyewitness account trumps any lib-retarded pinhead you care to cite!
Originally Posted by I B Hankering
It was your ignorant contention that the desert tortoise played no part in this debacle, and now you've adopted it as the mainstay of your argument! You lost, you dumb, ignorant Yankee SOB. You've now conceded that it WAS the BLM's desert tortoise policy that started this entire mess.The subsidies to ranchers like Bundy and "Mrs. Kena Lytle Gloeckner" as you so ceremoniously call her, put the lie to the rough-and-tumble, independent "cowboy" image.
No, I haven't shithead. I'm saying that whatever the ranchers have to say about the tortoise being safe is BIASED bullshit.
The BLM doesn't need to do or say anything about the tortoise. They can just raise the fees to ensure that the ranchers pay for the damage they do. That may put some of them out of business, as it should. Tortoise or no tortoise.
Why the fuck are we maintaining the cowboy way of life? The 19th century is over.
BTW, jackass, your ignorant use of a fucking lib-retard magazine written in the fucking lib-retarded city of San Francisco trying to *imply* your source isn't lib-retarded biased? You're a moron and a jackass, and Mrs. Kena Lytle Gloeckner's eyewitness account trumps any lib-retarded pinhead you care to cite!
Can you provide a citation where anything Salon stated is wrong, IBLying? They wrote ranchers are bleeding us for $1.2 billion per decade. Do you dispute that? Provide a link.
Also, we have a population of 310 million.
Accroding to this link:
http://www.meatami.com/ht/d/sp/i/47465/pid/47465
We consume 34 million head of cattle in a year. That is about 340 million in a decade. That means for our $1.2 billion per decade, we are providing about $3.53 per head of cattle. Why the fuck can't ranchers add that on to the price of the cows? What will that come out to at the supermarket? A dime per steak? A nickel per pound for hamburger?
Why are we footing the bill?
Originally Posted by I B Hankering
Non-responsive.No further argument is necessary, the debate is won:
Out of bad arguments? Originally Posted by ExNYer
You still have nothing but spin, liar.
Bundy's dispute with BLM goes back, what? 20 Years? That was BEFORE any issues arose with solar plants (located 200 miles away) or desert tortoises. Originally Posted by ExNYer
How many desert tortoises were in Nevada - and how much range area did they cover - when the Spaniard first brought cattle in 500 years ago? And how many [tortoises] are left NOW and how much range area do they cover?
Why do you think the opinions of the ranchers who profiteer from grazing on those lands are an unbiased opinion about desert tortoises welfare?
Key quotes:
---------------------------------------------
And most livestock operations occur at the peril of endangered species, whether it’s the Mojave desert tortoise being nutritionally starved or Greater sage-grouse nests being trampled and their eggs destroyed.
Originally Posted by ExNYer
