Roe to be overturned!!!!

um.. whats in a comma? ... Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

All of the Demonicrats policy positions the make America a better place.

as opposed to heavy handed state governments? because that's what it'll be if the court overturns Row v Wade. the liberal left is falsely (as usual) claiming abortion will be illegal in all states. some states may go that direction others not. like slavery this is a state's rights issue, always was. a consequence of a Federal Republic where the founding fathers wanted limited Federal Government and the bulk of decisions not strictly defined as Federal left to the States.


the founding fathers would be appalled at the size and scope of Federal government today. they might even advocate a "tax rebellion" over it. Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

Good points. If you don't view abortion as a fundamental right or if you're a Constitutionalist this makes perfect sense.

Think about the ramifications though. Assume that children of Democrats are more likely to become Democrats and vice versa.

You have around 850,000 abortions a year. Your country club suburban Moms will leave red states to get abortions. On the other hand, poor Moms in red states, typically Democrats, who want abortions will end up having babies.

The biggest concern in my mind is we're driving a lot of these women into penury. See this: https://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?p=1062834230

The writer says the probability a woman will not have enough money for basic necessities if she's denied an abortion is 5X higher than women granted an abortion. That's five years after a woman was denied an abortion.

The secondary concern is the expansion of the welfare state. Assume 250,000 more babies are born to indigent women annually. Over 18 years, the state potentially has 250,000 x 18 = 4.5 million more kids to support and educate. As WTF points out elsewhere, how many of them will end up in prison, where we'll continue to have to support them.

The third concern for me, and presumably for you, is political. If most of these kids become Democrats, what's the electorate going to look like 30 or 40 years from now? How many red states are going to become blue states? You may see that happen now, this year, because a lot of women, Democrats, are going to be mad as hell at the upcoming Supreme Court decision. They'll go to the polls and vote.

as opposed to heavy handed state governments? because that's what it'll be if the court overturns Row v Wade. the liberal left is falsely (as usual) claiming abortion will be illegal in all states. some states may go that direction others not. like slavery this is a state's rights issue, always was. a consequence of a Federal Republic where the founding fathers wanted limited Federal Government and the bulk of decisions not strictly defined as Federal left to the States.


the founding fathers would be appalled at the size and scope of Federal government today. they might even advocate a "tax rebellion" over it.


who says history doesn't repeat itself?


interesting isn't it that the real liars and spreaders of disinformation, the Democrats, are trying to suppress free speech. they know they can't win honest debate so they want to abolish it. Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

Honest debate?

You think they will stop at letting States decide abortion?

Let me try and understand your logic.

Presently individual women have the choice. You seem to want to put that choice in the hands of States. The GOP has stated that it wants a national ban on abortion.

So is your logic that the Federal government should have made slavery mandatory in states that banned slavery.

Or do you think it should be the State dight and you would be against a national ban on abortion?

Inquiring minds want to know...

You have around 850,000 abortions a year. Your country club suburban Moms will leave red states to get abortions. On the other hand, poor Moms in red states, typically Democrats, who want abortions will end up having babies. Originally Posted by Tiny

So your argument to Conservatives who believe that abortion kills a child is political? We don't want to be overcome by liberals because they can't get abortions? LOL... You really need to work on your elevator pitch if you think that's an argument that is going to work.

The writer says the probability a woman will not have enough money for basic necessities if she's denied an abortion is 5X higher than women granted an abortion. That's five years after a woman was denied an abortion. Originally Posted by Tiny

You're really a misogynist, aren't you? Do you think women are so feeble minded that they can't use birth control? What did the world do before Roe V. Wade? Is the relative affluence of the US only happen because we allowed abortion? Maybe... just maybe, women are smart enough to realize that if they can't get an abortion in 3 months, that they might make the guy wear a rubber or use other forms of BC?

The secondary concern is the expansion of the welfare state. Assume 250,000 more babies are born to indigent women annually. Over 18 years, the state potentially has 250,000 x 18 = 4.5 million more kids to support and educate. As WTF points out elsewhere, how many of them will end up in prison, where we'll continue to have to support them. Originally Posted by Tiny

Oh NOW you're concerned about the welfare state? Can you tell me how many illegals are using state resources? Do you care about that? DO you advocate we close the border and shut down immigration for 10 years? Well if you don't then this is an argument that carries no merit. You don't give two shits about the welfare state unless you can use it as an argument to allow women to be irresponsible and choose to murder their children because they couldn't be bothered to make some decisions about their own reproductive behavior.

The third concern for me, and presumably for you, is political. If most of these kids become Democrats, what's the electorate going to look like 30 or 40 years from now? How many red states are going to become blue states? You may see that happen now, this year, because a lot of women, Democrats, are going to be mad as hell at the upcoming Supreme Court decision. They'll go to the polls and vote. Originally Posted by Tiny

LOL...back to the political argument...which was really your first argument... again I will point you to the wholesale importation of a new class ov voters over the Rio Grande. Does it matter if the democrat voters were imported or born here?

GTFO with this bullshit.

LOL... You really need to work on your elevator pitch if you think that's an argument that is going to work

....GTFO with this bullshit. Originally Posted by texassapper

You need to work on YOUR elevator pitch. Calling people wannabe baby killers, like you did me in a previous post, is not a good way to win friends and influence people. Bambino's approach, telling me I'm an idiot, is much more likely to work. He might even be right, I don't know. I do know that I don't want to kill babies, that's ridiculous.

And GTFO (get the fuck out) with this bullshit? You sound like the leftists on college campuses who are trying to shut down free speech.

What did the world do before Roe V. Wade? I
Originally Posted by texassapper

Coat hanger is what you want to return to?

Maybe you should move to the Middle East, Afganistan. Anywhere back in the Stone Age for women's fights would suit you fine.

Mitch has already said the goal is a national ban...
https://thehill.com/news/sunday-talk...-fighting-for/

Mitch has already said the goal is a national ban...
https://thehill.com/news/sunday-talk...-fighting-for/ Originally Posted by WTF

Bad move by Mitch. I'm disappointed.

Honest debate?

You think they will stop at letting States decide abortion?

Let me try and understand your logic.

Presently individual women have the choice. You seem to want to put that choice in the hands of States. The GOP has stated that it wants a national ban on abortion.

So is your logic that the Federal government should have made slavery mandatory in states that banned slavery.

Or do you think it should be the State dight and you would be against a national ban on abortion?

Inquiring minds want to know... Originally Posted by WTF

... I've already pointed this out to you - LET PEOPLE DECIDE!

WHY are YOU so afraid to let people VOTE on this issue
in their state?? ... Shouldn't people DECIDE this?

Each state should PUT THIS ON THE BALLOT.

#### Salty

is not a good way to win friends and influence people. Originally Posted by Tiny

LOL.. Well there's your mistake.

I do know that I don't want to kill babies, that's ridiculous. Originally Posted by Tiny

If you favor keeping the status quo, that's what you're in favor of. You can rationalize it any way you like, but keeping abortion legal is the legalized killing of babies. period.

You sound like the leftists on college campuses who are trying to shut down free speech. Originally Posted by Tiny

Because I call your argument bullshit? LOL. Sorry pointing out that Red states might get swamped with poor babies who might vote democrat is one of the stupidest reasons I've ever heard to keep abortion legal.

IT IS Bullshit and you know it is.

Coat hanger is what you want to return to? Originally Posted by WTF

Yep that is it. There is only one alternative to legal abortion and that's the back alley coat hanger wielding pseudo-doctor. As opposed to what legal abortion and abortion clinics do...

Maybe you should move to the Middle East, Afganistan. Anywhere back in the Stone Age for women's fights would suit you fine. Originally Posted by WTF

Your arguments have all been heard before...

Good points. If you don't view abortion as a fundamental right or if you're a Constitutionalist this makes perfect sense.

Shouldn't we all be Constitutionalist Tiny? Especially since it calls for a vote of the people instead of the government or 9 people in Black robes telling us what we can and can't do? We should all be Constitutionalist but then that would require some intelligence and understanding of our founding principles.

Think about the ramifications though. Assume that children of Democrats are more likely to become Democrats and vice versa.

First question is "why would we make that assumption"? It is becoming clear now that Hispanics are switching to Republicans at an alarming rate for Democrats. Hispanics are traditionally Conservative on cultural issues and are as concerned as Conservative non Hispanics about what is being taught in schools and crime. Is the only reason to vote Democrat the right to abortion which will be legal in slightly more than half the states in my opinion? Or that Hispanics favor open borders? They don't according to the polling, they are concerned about the economy, crime and "traditional" family values, not all of course but the polls suggest a majority that feel that way and will vote Republican in the mid-terms.

You have around 850,000 abortions a year. Your country club suburban Moms will leave red states to get abortions. On the other hand, poor Moms in red states, typically Democrats, who want abortions will end up having babies.

Well, they may very well leave a red state for an abortion but they will return for every other reason than abortion to their state that has a thriving economy and schools that don't teach 5 year olds about sex of any nature and don't ask 4 year olds in kindergarten, who the racists are in their family and will they pledge to give up their "white privilege".


It is also becoming clear that their will be corporations that will pay for their employees in states that have banned abortions to travel to a state where they can receive an abortion. Hell, it's already been adopted by many, many corporations including Levi Strauss, Amazon, Tesla and a whole list of other corporations who have already put it in writing before the decision even comes down from the court. And the poor women who don't work for a corporation that will help them, there will surely be more than enough go fund me sites for poor women. An inconvenience to be sure but not impossible. Hell, right now, it is damn near impossible to get an abortion in a state like Louisiana.

As the clinic nearest the Texas border, the phone at Hope Medical Group has been ringing constantly, Pittman said. It’s one of only three abortion providers in the state.

3 abortion clinics in the entire state of Louisiana which means travel for most women seeking abortion in Louisiana and the women in Texas who are making that travel now, will simply have to travel elsewhere.



When one looks at it this way, this is much ado about nothing other than the inconvenience of travel for which some will find darn right welcoming.

The biggest concern in my mind is we're driving a lot of these women into penury. See this: https://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?p=1062834230

The writer says the probability a woman will not have enough money for basic necessities if she's denied an abortion is 5X higher than women granted an abortion. That's five years after a woman was denied an abortion.

Again, any woman, poor or rich, will be able to get an abortion or at least the majority.

The secondary concern is the expansion of the welfare state. Assume 250,000 more babies are born to indigent women annually. Over 18 years, the state potentially has 250,000 x 18 = 4.5 million more kids to support and educate. As WTF points out elsewhere, how many of them will end up in prison, where we'll continue to have to support them.

Yeah because Democrats are sooooo concerned about expanding the welfare state with open border and welfare rights for non citizens. And we need not assume all those babies will be born for the very reasons I listed above. See what we can all learn with just a little rational discussion of all these matters.

The third concern for me, and presumably for you, is political. If most of these kids become Democrats,

Again, why would we assume that?

what's the electorate going to look like 30 or 40 years from now? How many red states are going to become blue states? You may see that happen now, this year, because a lot of women, Democrats, are going to be mad as hell at the upcoming Supreme Court decision. They'll go to the polls and vote.

Originally Posted by Tiny

Yep, exactly the way it's suppose to work and if you are like me, that is all that matters that we follow the Constitution and in a very short period of time, 2 years after Roe is overturned and states that have banned abortion see what that decision may or may not have done to their states economy, may very well change their Representatives thus changing the law.


I lived in Louisiana for 20 years and my best friend a die hard Biden/ Democrat supporter still lives there and we were talking last night about this and both agree that if Roe is reversed and Louisiana decides to ban ALL abortions and charge any doctor for murder that does, the economic decline of Louisiana will be spectacular. No more Mardi Gras to speak of, no more Jazz fest. No more celebrities, sports teams etc. will perform in Louisiana. They will be ostracized to a level never before seen. You think Atlanta losing the Wold series was a big deal? It will look like a cake walk compared to what will come if they ban all abortions but that is the decision for the people of Louisiana and has no bearing on me at all. Many people will pull up stakes and I can't imagine many people saying "Yeah, let's move to a state that bans all abortions".

I'll take the points after somebody, other than CryptKicker, checks your PMS. I thought about posting the 1968 Zeffirelli version. But, same issue.

Side note:

"Juliet", in that film, was not allowed to see her own breasts on film. One of those legal catch 22's of sorts. Originally Posted by eccieuser9500

really? lol

really? lol Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

I think I saw a video of her and "Romeo" doing a press junket. It was one of those things that sticks in your mind.

I can't post the video and I didn't even look for a print version. Sir.

Bad move by Mitch. I'm disappointed. Originally Posted by Tiny

I agree, bad move. What he effectively did after arguing for states right to decide, is to then lobby against states rights. A really dumb political move in my opinion especially when Democrats already called for such a bill to do the exact opposite and neither side has the votes to pull this off. My suggestion to Republicans, take the win it looks like you'll get and be satisfied without going to war with half the country.


I think we will all see how each state making this decision for themselves will fare and women from banned states will still be able to travel with help from their employers or friends of the cause to help.


Some knuckle head in a think tank estimates that if Roe is banned, it will only effect 13% of women looking for abortion and I don't think the knuckle head took into account all the things I have suggested and are now coming true.



After this decision, any woman in America that wants an abortion can get an abortion and they will have to do a little travel just like all those women in Louisiana where only 3 clinics exist in the entire state. Anybody making the case that right now under Roe, they can get in a car and be at an abortion clinics in a hour or less are naive as hell and aren't being truthful with themselves or the rest of us.