Is the local hobby scene as bad as this board makes it seem?

I was doing well, even through March and April. Then my go to, decided to take a trip to the shore, I am scared to call her now, maybe later? Originally Posted by Looker151

Are you serious? Why be “scared” of anything in your life? Just confront it head on. IJS.

The real questions here are, what does it mean for the environment to be "worse", and for whom?

Keep in mind that the hobby environment here (currently, and historically) isn't a homogeneous thing. In my mind, it's roughly divided into a number of strata, or tiers, based on things like the quality of the experience provided, the cost of the experience, how easy or difficult it is to get on the provider's calendar (e.g., whether you can get on the provider's calendar quickly, or indeed if you can get on it at all), their reliability, and the type of risk one must assume to see some particular provider. For sake of argument, I'll refer to these (in order from "lowest" to "highest") as follows (and will try to give some examples of providers who were around previously or are around currently, who would correspond to these tiers).

1). Minimal Tier (example: streetwalkers and "lot lizards")
2). Budget Tier (example: hard to think of a specific example, but anyone offering car dates, or BnG sessions out of a room at a Motel 6, would be here).
3). Mid-range Tier (example: green eyed beauty from the old Indys)
4). Premium Tier (example: Kaitlyn from the old Indys, long ago...)
5). Elite Tier (example: Ariel from the old Indys)

And you can also sort hobbyists by which tiers they prefer to play in, or have means to play in. It is my perception that the vast majority of hobbyists in this area prefer to play in the Mid-range Tier and the Premium Tier, with some forays down into the Budget Tier. At one time, there were quite a few options in these tiers.

What has happened in the Pittsburgh area is that the entire Mid-range Tier is basically just gone, as far as availability of providers corresponding to that tier. It simply doesn't exist at all in this area right now, in any way that I'm aware of. I think there are a bunch of reasons for this, that maybe I can go into at another time - but, Indys didn't do it (though in some cases, Indys was used as a tool by others to send us in this direction).

This has left a pretty substantial vacuum in the local hobby environment, given that the providers in this tier were the ones that the majority of hobbyists in this area were seeing (and could afford to see). Now, many providers that I'd categorize in the Budget Tier (based on environment, and quality of experience) are trying to float Premium Tier rates (and then the ones I've spoken to are often sad that not many clients come to see them, and they don't understand why...). Some Premium Tier providers are starting to ask for rates as if they were Elite Tier, putting themselves out of financial reach of many hobbyists. That effectively reduces the availability in the Premium Tier (which there was never a huge amount of to start with), making it more likely that a hobbyist looking in this tier simply won't be able to get an appointment with anyone. The net effect of this is that a huge segment of hobbyists just can't find options for anyone to even see. And they're not likely to drop down into the Minimal Tier because for most of them, that's not even an experience worth having, and it's too much risk to make it worth even trying.

Meanwhile, I'm sure most of the Elite Tier providers are doing fine, if not better than before, especially if they're already established and have a client list already - they're generally lower volume anyway, and in the current environment they're probably still getting enough appointments to make them happy, if not more.

So yeah - the Pittsburgh hobby environment sucks really badly right now, especially if you're one of the majority (my theory...) of clients who won't pay a Premium rate for a Budget experience, can't afford to move up the hierarchy to see a more elite level provider, and won't move down the hierarchy to have a more minimal experience. It especially sucks because several years ago, this wasn't the case at all - but it is now.

it's worse in OHIO!

Not sure if this was directed to clients only...
Elmo please advise if this was an overstep.

I would answer the question “no” it’s definitely not as bad as this site makes it seem.

I’ve seen no decline, if anything there has been a significant uptick in inquiries since March.

There seems to be the same handful of folks here that are not happy with their options. This is not representative of the scene by any stretch of the imagination. The “scene” is much larger than this or any one site. The majority of client inquiries have never even heard of this site.

So, I guess My answer is NO, it’s the opposite of what this board would like folks to believe. Not being able to or not wanting to pay the current rate of any given provider is not indicative of the scene, but rather of the individual. Originally Posted by Dreamgurrl

Thanks for the perspective from the other side. I do disagree with you though. As you say, the "scene" is bigger than any one site. However, looking at all of the sites that I know about and I see the same story. If there are more options than I know of, please let me know how to find them! PM is fine.

I'm not a hardcore hobbyist (maybe have 3-4 dates a year at this point) but I've been around 10+ years so I have the perspective of time. Frankly, I'm not surprised at all that you would be seeing an uptick in demand because well-known and reliable providers would expect to see demand as the market falls apart around them.

What has happened in the Pittsburgh area is that the entire Mid-range Tier is basically just gone, as far as availability of providers corresponding to that tier. It simply doesn't exist at all in this area right now, in any way that I'm aware of. I think there are a bunch of reasons for this, that maybe I can go into at another time - but, Indys didn't do it (though in some cases, Indys was used as a tool by others to send us in this direction).
Originally Posted by laserface

Bingo.

I can still pay $$$$$ and have my pick of a good time with an elite traveling provider. I'm lucky enough to have the means, and so that is what I do now.

I can still pay .$ and have my choice of an awful, possibly dangerous experience. I'm old enough to know better, so I don't.

What I can't do is find anyone charging $$ that is worth $$.

All those clients who have responded so far. What's wrong with that? Originally Posted by pittlicker

Nothing wrong with that. My point is, as providers we interact with an infinitely larger amount of clients than clients do on a client board.

This board is not representative of “most” clients.

The ones who don’t want to get extorted. You, have a big hand in ruining the local hobby. The savvy people know this. Wether they’re guys or girls. But hey, you’re busy. Good for you. Indys was dead when you took over. You drove the last several spikes in it.. But guys who have far more years in the hobby than you, know by experience. Period. Jump on your broom and fly away. ECCIE always had twice the membership than Indys. To say hobbyists don’t know about ECCIE is complete bullshit. If they’re from Texas, they do. I communicate in many forums. One You, or anyone else on PGH can read. Hos are honest there. Business is slow. Originally Posted by bambino

This old trope. You can keep pushing it, doesn’t and never will never make it true. If Indys was So dead then why are people still crying about it being gone? Why did people blame Indys for not being able to pay bills or find girls?? Why on earth would I choose to shut down a site, in which I had to make zero effort to fill my schedule? That would be dumb and I am far from that.
You just like to harass me and you got nothing on me but rumors. While I appreciate your perseverance, seems like it could be put to better use.

Thanks for the perspective from the other side. I do disagree with you though. As you say, the "scene" is bigger than any one site. However, looking at all of the sites that I know about and I see the same story. If there are more options than I know of, please let me know how to find them! PM is fine.

I'm not a hardcore hobbyist (maybe have 3-4 dates a year at this point) but I've been around 10+ years so I have the perspective of time. Frankly, I'm not surprised at all that you would be seeing an uptick in demand because well-known and reliable providers would expect to see demand as the market falls apart around them. Originally Posted by bkfantasy

You’re welcome!

Are you serious? Why be “scared” of anything in your life? Just confront it head on. IJS. Originally Posted by bambino

Hey Bam, at my age(mid 60's), I have to be cautious. Tried to tell her, but she would have none of it. I guess some time at a hot spot trumps being safe for the regulars,oh well...

The real questions here are, what does it mean for the environment to be "worse", and for whom?

Keep in mind that the hobby environment here (currently, and historically) isn't a homogeneous thing. In my mind, it's roughly divided into a number of strata, or tiers, based on things like the quality of the experience provided, the cost of the experience, how easy or difficult it is to get on the provider's calendar (e.g., whether you can get on the provider's calendar quickly, or indeed if you can get on it at all), their reliability, and the type of risk one must assume to see some particular provider. For sake of argument, I'll refer to these (in order from "lowest" to "highest") as follows (and will try to give some examples of providers who were around previously or are around currently, who would correspond to these tiers).

1). Minimal Tier (example: streetwalkers and "lot lizards")
2). Budget Tier (example: hard to think of a specific example, but anyone offering car dates, or BnG sessions out of a room at a Motel 6, would be here).
3). Mid-range Tier (example: green eyed beauty from the old Indys)
4). Premium Tier (example: Kaitlyn from the old Indys, long ago...)
5). Elite Tier (example: Ariel from the old Indys)

And you can also sort hobbyists by which tiers they prefer to play in, or have means to play in. It is my perception that the vast majority of hobbyists in this area prefer to play in the Mid-range Tier and the Premium Tier, with some forays down into the Budget Tier. At one time, there were quite a few options in these tiers.

What has happened in the Pittsburgh area is that the entire Mid-range Tier is basically just gone, as far as availability of providers corresponding to that tier. It simply doesn't exist at all in this area right now, in any way that I'm aware of. I think there are a bunch of reasons for this, that maybe I can go into at another time - but, Indys didn't do it (though in some cases, Indys was used as a tool by others to send us in this direction).

This has left a pretty substantial vacuum in the local hobby environment, given that the providers in this tier were the ones that the majority of hobbyists in this area were seeing (and could afford to see). Now, many providers that I'd categorize in the Budget Tier (based on environment, and quality of experience) are trying to float Premium Tier rates (and then the ones I've spoken to are often sad that not many clients come to see them, and they don't understand why...). Some Premium Tier providers are starting to ask for rates as if they were Elite Tier, putting themselves out of financial reach of many hobbyists. That effectively reduces the availability in the Premium Tier (which there was never a huge amount of to start with), making it more likely that a hobbyist looking in this tier simply won't be able to get an appointment with anyone. The net effect of this is that a huge segment of hobbyists just can't find options for anyone to even see. And they're not likely to drop down into the Minimal Tier because for most of them, that's not even an experience worth having, and it's too much risk to make it worth even trying.

Meanwhile, I'm sure most of the Elite Tier providers are doing fine, if not better than before, especially if they're already established and have a client list already - they're generally lower volume anyway, and in the current environment they're probably still getting enough appointments to make them happy, if not more.

So yeah - the Pittsburgh hobby environment sucks really badly right now, especially if you're one of the majority (my theory...) of clients who won't pay a Premium rate for a Budget experience, can't afford to move up the hierarchy to see a more elite level provider, and won't move down the hierarchy to have a more minimal experience. It especially sucks because several years ago, this wasn't the case at all - but it is now. Originally Posted by laserface

I think you are pretty on target especially about there being virtually no one left in the mid range and premium tiers (well except those couple who should be in that range but try to charge elite prices). Two other comments though

1. Kaitlyn - damn the memories. She was a great girl. Saw her numerous times. I still recall one time I messaged her on my birthday to see if she was working. She said no but I am bored, I will get a room. So an hour later I am naked with her in a motel and she says well you know on your birthday, you should get a blowjob for each year - how old are you. I laugh but damn did she not try. She kept me there (not that I was trying to leave) a few hours giving me at least 4 or 5 BJs til I was bone dry. And I think she only wanted 150 total. What a girl

2. I really don't think it is guys "can't afford to move up the hierarchy to see a more elite level provider" I could but for lots of guys, most pussy is not worth that much and second, there really are no elite providers in Pittsburgh. I can spend 200-250 for an hour in Florida for premium and elite tier. In all my years, most 300 providers I have seen have been disappointing. Only one was truly worth the 300

The ones who don’t want to get extorted. You, have a big hand in ruining the local hobby. The savvy people know this. Wether they’re guys or girls. But hey, you’re busy. Good for you. Indys was dead when you took over. You drove the last several spikes in it.. But guys who have far more years in the hobby than you, know by experience. Period. Jump on your broom and fly away. ECCIE always had twice the membership than Indys. To say hobbyists don’t know about ECCIE is complete bullshit. If they’re from Texas, they do. I communicate in many forums. One You, or anyone else on PGH can read. Hos are honest there. Business is slow. Originally Posted by bambino

"Eccie always had twice the membership than Indys." Huh? Pittsburgh hobbyists and providers started leaving ASPD for Indys En....Mass starting in spring of 2005 when Indys developed their own forums, and specifically because the ASPD Texas mods were "controversial" (they banned people too casually) and basically the Texas mods were not as Ideal-Reasonable and Totally Well-Liked as local mods Laserface and Devo and Speedracer69....

There is No Question that the Large Majority of Pittsburgh hobby-people (hobbyists and providers) Left....ASPD for Indys starting in spring of 2005. There were some anti-Indys stragglers like MCA9276 (RIP- I considered him a hobby-friend) but basically by the end of 2006 most of the Pittsburgh hobbyists and providers were operating on Indys and NOT on ASPD at all....

Sure, Indys took a hit after the Cleveland GTG bust. Also many (many) of the old school, active posting ASPD and then Indys posting hobbyists went "UTR" and started doing their own thing before and after the Cleveland GTG bust. People "come and go" from the hobby, and specifically the online hobby scene. Also many Pittsburgh hobbyists started gravitating to SA years ago, and years before Indys ended too. I was operating on SA for a year or two before it even got any press on Indys and the new Eccie....

Indys was a pretty unique, and I argue Ideal, hobby-community from the spring of 2005 (when it created it's forums) to around the Cleveland GTG bust. I remember an average of ten (10) or so GTGs (usually with holiday and seasonal themes) just in Pittsburgh every year from 2005 through 2010 or so. Lot's of random HH's at bars and private homes for Years. And they expanded to OH cities Cleveland, Columbus and Cinci and started dominating there too, and GTG's were frequent in those cities too. That's pretty impressive. Sure- there were always "scandals" and "controversies" on Indys, no doubt about it, but that is to be expected with so many active members....

The vouch-system on Indys was simply ideal. If hobbyists had three (3) vouches and were "green" then there was no "screening" or "getting to know each other" nonsense which currently too many SA girls require. This really "expedited the process" for Pittsburgh and OH hobby-people to meet and do business....

Sure, there were some Scandals and Controversies on Indys at variable times. I had a hell of a lot of fun seeing providers from there and socializing with other Degenerate Hobbyists from 2005 through the summer of 2008- then I personally moved on to "civilian" girls and then SA girls....

I also think when Indys banned long-time, experienced members like Bambino and "the Wolf Pack", and for ANY reason, then they reverted to (even if temporarily) old-school 2004 ASPD with the Texas mods. Not good. Not sure what Bambino's personal, changing status was on Indys but anytime people were banned (even temporarily) for "controversial" posts then it reflected negatively on Indys. But mostly there were more Positives rather than Negatives on Indys, even with variable "scandals" and "controversies"....

The Pittsburgh hobby scene now? It's what hobbyists make of it. I have seen orthodox providers and newbie "civilian" girls on SA who Look and Perform like porn stars. I have also interacted with SA girls who would be Mocked and Ridiculed for their bad behavior on the old ASPD and Indys. SA is the factor which has Changed the local hobby scene the most. SA and obviously FOSTA....

People "come and go" from the hobby. I'm content with the historic and current Choice in Pittsburgh and I tend to gravitate to SA and also straight "civilian" girls in bars and nightclubs. Now bars and nightclubs are closed and everyone (and particularly "civilian" SA girls) are reasonably concerned about the virus....

When I hobbied regularly with "orthodox" Pittsburgh providers I usually had three (3) ATF's I saw an average of once a month each. I mixed it up with "new strange" I could positively meet at multiple GTG's from 2005 through 2008. I don't have any of that anymore but also I'm older than I was back then. Plus COVID-19 is a threat everyone should take seriously. Technically it is More Infectious and Deadly than HIV because a person Breathing on you can get you infected. So no doubt COVID-19 has effected the local Pittsburgh hobby scene in deleterious ways...

Pittsburgh is still strong, but much of the Talent is on SA now. And there are some Fools and Clowns on SA too. So the "mix" is even more Graphic and Varied than it ever was in a very organized and "transparent" hobby-market like the old ASPD and Indys.....

"Eccie always had twice the membership than Indys." Huh? Pittsburgh hobbyists and providers started leaving ASPD for Indys En....Mass starting in spring of 2005 when Indys developed their own forums, and specifically because the ASPD Texas mods were "controversial" (they banned people too casually) and basically the Texas mods were not as Ideal-Reasonable and Totally Well-Liked as local mods Laserface and Devo and Speedracer69....

There is No Question that the Large Majority of Pittsburgh hobby-people (hobbyists and providers) Left....ASPD for Indys starting in spring of 2005. There were some anti-Indys stragglers like MCA9276 (RIP- I considered him a hobby-friend) but basically by the end of 2006 most of the Pittsburgh hobbyists and providers were operating on Indys and NOT on ASPD at all....

Sure, Indys took a hit after the Cleveland GTG bust. Also many (many) of the old school, active posting ASPD and then Indys posting hobbyists went "UTR" and started doing their own thing before and after the Cleveland GTG bust. People "come and go" from the hobby, and specifically the online hobby scene. Also many Pittsburgh hobbyists started gravitating to SA years ago, and years before Indys ended too. I was operating on SA for a year or two before it even got any press on Indys and the new Eccie....

Indys was a pretty unique, and I argue Ideal, hobby-community from the spring of 2005 (when it created it's forums) to around the Cleveland GTG bust. I remember an average of ten (10) or so GTGs (usually with holiday and seasonal themes) just in Pittsburgh every year from 2005 through 2010 or so. Lot's of random HH's at bars and private homes for Years. And they expanded to OH cities Cleveland, Columbus and Cinci and started dominating there too, and GTG's were frequent in those cities too. That's pretty impressive. Sure- there were always "scandals" and "controversies" on Indys, no doubt about it, but that is to be expected with so many active members....

The vouch-system on Indys was simply ideal. If hobbyists had three (3) vouches and were "green" then there was no "screening" or "getting to know each other" nonsense which currently too many SA girls require. This really "expedited the process" for Pittsburgh and OH hobby-people to meet and do business....

Sure, there were some Scandals and Controversies on Indys at variable times. I had a hell of a lot of fun seeing providers from there and socializing with other Degenerate Hobbyists from 2005 through the summer of 2008- then I personally moved on to "civilian" girls and then SA girls....

I also think when Indys banned long-time, experienced members like Bambino and "the Wolf Pack", and for ANY reason, then they reverted to (even if temporarily) old-school 2004 ASPD with the Texas mods. Not good. Not sure what Bambino's personal, changing status was on Indys but anytime people were banned (even temporarily) for "controversial" posts then it reflected negatively on Indys. But mostly there were more Positives rather than Negatives on Indys, even with variable "scandals" and "controversies"....

The Pittsburgh hobby scene now? It's what hobbyists make of it. I have seen orthodox providers and newbie "civilian" girls on SA who Look and Perform like porn stars. I have also interacted with SA girls who would be Mocked and Ridiculed for their bad behavior on the old ASPD and Indys. SA is the factor which has Changed the local hobby scene the most. SA and obviously FOSTA....

People "come and go" from the hobby. I'm content with the historic and current Choice in Pittsburgh and I tend to gravitate to SA and also straight "civilian" girls in bars and nightclubs. Now bars and nightclubs are closed and everyone (and particularly "civilian" SA girls) are reasonably concerned about the virus....

When I hobbied regularly with "orthodox" Pittsburgh providers I usually had three (3) ATF's I saw an average of once a month each. I mixed it up with "new strange" I could positively meet at multiple GTG's from 2005 through 2008. I don't have any of that anymore but also I'm older than I was back then. Plus COVID-19 is a threat everyone should take seriously. Technically it is More Infectious and Deadly than HIV because a person Breathing on you can get you infected. So no doubt COVID-19 has effected the local Pittsburgh hobby scene in deleterious ways...

Pittsburgh is still strong, but much of the Talent is on SA now. And there are some Fools and Clowns on SA too. So the "mix" is even more Graphic and Varied than it ever was in a very organized and "transparent" hobby-market like the old ASPD and Indys..... Originally Posted by tolstoy

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Welcome to our newest member, Rytheman94

ECCIE has over 500,000 members. Indys never had more than 35,000. What’s your point? It also shows how fraudulent DG is. Like none of her clients heard of ECCIE. Bullshit. Indys came to be at the right time. ASPD was shutting down. Indys was always a local board. Columbus was popular for a few years then died out. Cincy and Cleveland weren’t all that big for Indys. Agencies like Ciity Girls wouldn’t accept Indys vouches. Indys was great for the local scene for 6/8 years. As I said before, after Cleveland, it was essentially dead. And Tolstoy, you’re naive, misinformed or both if you think it was one big Koombuyya at Indys. Did you forget Blue Bandits (PI) deliberate destruction of Mandy? Lots of intimidation tactics were employed on Indys. That’s just one of the more public displays of depravity. There were many more. But ECCIE is a better run site. There’s no Emperor that can delete your posts, read your PMs or ban you on a whim. That doesn’t happen here. As far as I’m concerned, it’s far better.

This old trope. You can keep pushing it, doesn’t and never will never make it true. If Indys was So dead then why are people still crying about it being gone? Why did people blame Indys for not being able to pay bills or find girls?? Why on earth would I choose to shut down a site, in which I had to make zero effort to fill my schedule? That would be dumb and I am far from that.
You just like to harass me and you got nothing on me but rumors. While I appreciate your perseverance, seems like it could be put to better use. Originally Posted by Dreamgurrl

I’m not harassing you, I’m telling the truth and you know it. I didn’t need Indys to pay my bills. But you shut it down after your Christmas party where you gladly accepted $500 silver mine donations. Did you refund those?????? Dumbfucks. One wonders how you sleep at night.

But why does Pittsburgh seem so singularly bad compared to similar sized cities? Cleveland, Baltimore and Detroit Originally Posted by bkfantasy

People, in general, are nicer in those cities.

New York, DC or even Philadelphia. Originally Posted by bkfantasy

And in those cities. I've lived all over the country. People are just rude as fuck in PGH. They don't have respect for themselves in general, let alone other people. Its not just the hobby scene. All the scenes here, except the Sports Scene, are barren wastelands here.

I’m not harassing you, I’m telling the truth and you know it. I didn’t need Indys to pay my bills. But you shut it down after your Christmas party where you gladly accepted $500 silver mine donations. Did you refund those?????? Dumbfucks. One wonders how you sleep at night. Originally Posted by bambino

Blah blah blah.