The body language of a date

So, you say have met Nineveh in real life? :-)
Originally Posted by ..

Yea sounds like she ran into Niv and PJ out on the town!
Originally Posted by WTF

Oh my God, you guys stole my joke. Where's the love??

So tell us, what does Charlestudor look like? Originally Posted by Doove

Lauren,

Thanks for the amazingly thought-provoking thread! As a holder of a psychology degree, I obviously am enamored of people-studying, and think this is a great example of how tough it is to be sure of what we are seeing. Interpersonal relationships are so complex it is often hard to guess right from mere observation.

That being said, it seems the real questions are whether or not society assumes that a May-Decmber date is P4P when the couple are not enjoying themselves, and do ladies naturally dislike one another in a "competetive" situation? As to the former, I guess I find it totally normal for younger women to date older men. We mature gentlemen are much more appealing (when we take care of ourselves) as we age, just because a mature male is the leader of the tribe and we are tribal by nature. I also assume that part of the attraction is the success of the older gent, so money is a part of the equation - as it should be! Civvie or not, a successful man is usually going to get more attention from more attractive women. I never really think of any situation as being a professional date when I'm out and about, simply because it really doesn't matter. It really is the normal way of our species and should be an everyday occurrance for a variety of reasons.

As for the daggers tossed by women toward one another, I would never venture to put words in mouths or thoughts in heads, but my observation from dating many women over a number of years, both civvie and professional, is that it is just insecurity, period. I have never been with a truly secure and confident woman who was catty toward other women, while the unsure or immature ones find any excuse to hiss and scratch (metaphorically).

Just an interesting thread all around - thanks for posing the question, luv!

Interesting post TopGunTex!

I have a deep fascination with psychology, and am a firm believer in evolutionary psychology. I think Jung was dead on with the "Collective Subconscious" a shared memory passed on through our instinctual tendencies - memories that run so deep there are neurological path ways set in our minds so it may be passed on to future generations for survival and to quicken the progress of our intellectual evolution.

And though we have these instinctive patterns, I do not believe that we are slave to them. Instead I think that this instinctive memory takes the role of the ID, battling with the Ego and Superego and hopefully achieving balanced judgment.

In truth I think a young woman's attraction to an older man is in part, as you speak, the tribal elder. However, allow me for a moment to enter into the instincts of the here and now. I actually think men age well if they give a damn and take care of themselves. Asides from the rare "pretty boy" when compared with the general population, I think men are far more attractive passed the age of 30-35.

On the other hand, women are indeed prone to seeking a greater level of stability. They want a "nest egg". Older men are generally more stable in emotions and finances. Though we could be hunters, men have biological advantages over women overall, and to raise children without a man present to help get food, shelter and protection. And frankly on a modern context - I absolutely and consciously adore knowing that if I fall, he can be there to catch me.

That said, when a woman is miserable on a non-professional date, she doesn't make such a grand effort to seem interested in what he's saying. If she's pissed off or detached the same sort of attempts to still engage aren't going to be the - what's the motive? Unless she's in the early stages of dating a man she isn't interested in for some other ulterior motive.

I had been enjoying a lovely evening at a romantic bar in New York with a gentlemen of whom I am greatly enamored. We were really enjoying making googly eyes at each other while drinking at the bar, to the great amusement of our charming bartender. Sometimes it's nice to be shamelessly romantic. Once dinner had begun an I excused myself to the washroom, and in my absence the bartender came over and complimented my gentlemen friend on the chemistry we shared.

I have to admit loving these spontaneous compliments - it's nice to know I don't scream professional from across the room even when there's a glaring age difference. I have been asked if we were on a Honeymoon by a stewardess, and a few times received congratulations on being newly weds. Always worth a giggle of delight. On the other hand, I've also had my dates complimented on having such a charming daughter. So the romantic inclination doesn't always ring through in our shared body language.

While at said romantic dinner, I saw another couple enter, with an obvious age difference. I spotted her as a pro immediately. He was likely in his sixties and didn't seem young in spirit or care much for his appearance - not to say he was unattractive or didn't care, but certainly didn't strike me as the "young at heart" sort of guy or the devilish charmer that would easily attract younger women. She was dressed in a very alluring outfit, and her eyes were dead even when she smiled.

I seemed to catch her eye immediately, she gave me a very forward though stone faced acknowledgment of my existence. I wondered if she pegged me the same way. We were seated facing each other so continuing to observe without being obvious was pretty easy, and I soon didn't know what conclusion she had reached. Every time I burst into laughter, she gave me an annoyed look, then let her eyes settle on the floor. Each time I walked by her eyes trailed me, narrowing to slits. I had the distinct feeling she disliked me. My date and I were quite fascinated by her body language, trying to figure out exactly what was going though her mind, and her date seemed absolutely oblivious to anything but the two of them. I found myself thinking, she's a pro, but not very good. I would feel very odd about bedding a woman that was so disinterested and had to force every smile and concentrate on seeming interested. I wondered if the gentlemen felt self conscious based on the subtleties of her behavior. There was no suspension of disbelief offered.

So I have to ask the gentlemen: Have you ever been on a date with a lady where the little things in her body language turned you off, even though nothing overt was wrong? Would you politely excuse yourself from the rest of the evening or venture forward?

I imagine most would venture forward, certainly I can remember being on first dates where there was no immediate sense of comfort in his presence, not the warmth of friendship or the click of romance. There must have been body language I couldn't consciously control, and they didn't cancel. I imagine there are instances where it's simpler to go through with the date and not repeat then it is to start the awkward conversation of wanting to end early. Originally Posted by Lauren Summerhill

You are so smart to ask these interesting questions Lauren.

For myself I have a real life which is important to me which this arena shall never obviously cross.

But the fact is that any business I do always caters to the affluent, and that usually means to a man in the last regard, and I'm a woman that gets attention - so go figure?

I just make sure that when I'm out with a client I can easily say, if I bump into an acquaintance I know, that he's a contact in my business. They're very interchangeable, after all.

Leah Ireland xxx

So I have to ask the gentlemen: Have you ever been on a date with a lady where the little things in her body language turned you off, even though nothing overt was wrong? Would you politely excuse yourself from the rest of the evening or venture forward?

I really can't answer this. I have almost never been on a date, especially in this scenario. If it ever did happen, I'm so shy I'm afraid I'd just wait it out until the date concluded no matter how uncomfortable I was. But I might be secretly hoping she'd terminate it.

For myself I have a real life which is important to me which this arena shall never obviously cross.

Leah Ireland xxx Originally Posted by Leah Ireland

I know that this wasn't your intent: but I promise I have a real life too, not just a pretend one

I do own a business of which there are partners, investors, employees and being B2B we have a large network with involvement in many varieties of professionals.

My good fortune is that I work in the arts, so unusual people are tolerated.

I'm not a closet case when it comes to my ideas, anyone I know is aware I support polyamory. They also know I'm single. And this gent in particular I'd proudly introduce as a romantic interest to anyone that ran into us, as he has done for me.

Lauren: great post. I love when people actually have thoughts and discussion about more than just the BCD.

Reading your post and some of the responses, I came to wonder: in your experience, do you think it has anything to do with the age of the lady? I've been both a sugarbaby and a provider off and on since I was about 20. Something I've noticed about myself if that my level of interest has changed. When I was younger, I was more concerned with the BCD aspect of being with a sugardaddy or hobbyist. Now, at 33, I'm very interested in knowing more about them (their interests, their body language, their conversation, etc).

I get the looks as well. Not just from other providers, but from civvie ladies too. I never shy away from looking someone in the eye, and so when it happens, I look dead at them, give a sly smile, and keep my conversation going. But the times when I've noticed ladies seem less than interested or comfortable with their dinner companions, its been a younger lady who didn't look like she was really sure of how to carry herself anyway. Maybe she thought or knew that others were looking at her and gauging whether her date was P4P? I dunno. The ladies my age and above most often (to me) have seemed like they were fine in their situation, and merely "hating" because of my rack or my confidence...whichever applied at the time. It doesn't and hasn't bothered me. Dinner dates are still my favorite, and I love to have a moment to foster that camaraderie and flirtation that makes them so much fun. As the lovely Camille explained, let the rest of the world be dammed...I'm too busy enjoying the company.

I notice the eyes. Does she look at me when we talk? Does she look vacant or over my head or shoulder and never at me in a friendly way?

There are other body language signals of course but for me the eyes sre the tattle tale.

Interestingly, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is people who attract attention (whether on a date or alone) without meaning to. Some people just don't know how to put clothes together that blend in with the crowd even though that is what they are intending to do. Some people are really uncomfortable with their height (slouch)/weight(wear baggy clothes)/shape /hair etc and do things that they think disguises what they see as *problems* when infact it draws the eye to them. If you don't feel comfortable you're not going to act comfortably. I think sometimes people long to adopt the nonchalent approach of not caring if they attract attention and admire those that have the ability to follow through on such behaviour. At the same time, it can also be painful to see others do something that you just don't have the courage/confidence to do. For myself, I stopped growing at the age of 12 so I spent the next 5 or so years trying to blend in in other ways. I wish someone had told me that it's just wasn't going to happen. That whatever I wore, or however I stood I was always going to be noted as tall. Once I understood that, I started wearing what I wanted instead of what I thought would hide my "flaw" and allow me to blend in with everyone else.

C

Reading your post and some of the responses, I came to wonder: in your experience, do you think it has anything to do with the age of the lady? I've been both a sugarbaby and a provider off and on since I was about 20. Something I've noticed about myself if that my level of interest has changed. Originally Posted by Nina Rae

I would say experience more than age, which can come together but not necessarily. And on the thread of experience: a new thought comes to mind. Having a similar background to yours, my time as a mistress probably fundamentally changed who I am as a professional companion and how I relate to te experience and the gents. Not every moment of my time is paid for as a mistress, and so there's much less of a "career" feel and much more of "real world" involvement. It certainly changed my level of interest in the gents, because even if we didn't engage in that manner, the openness of mind and body and the desire to unravel that in a partner I am enjoying became central. So I may be judging from a bias place, where I expect to see much less of an entertainer for the evening and more a lover exploring compatibilities.

Now, at 33, I'm very interested in knowing more about them (their interests, their body language, their conversation, etc).

Right on! Exploring the person and getting to know them opens the possibility for shared pleasure in so much more than the bedroom. It also feels damn good to make a genuinely good man feel attractive - not just related to his ability to bring a woman to orgasm - but that his personality is admirable, his intelligence deserving of respect, and that he can look good too. Guys seem to forget that they're allowed to feel good about themselves. I feel that they spend so much time trying to make a woman feel beautiful, intelligent, respected and appreciated, that they somehow get lost in that equation. Women generally have a central focus on "making me feel good makes him feel good" and that's awesome and has it's place. However, feeling genuinely good about yourself as a whole human being, without having to stroke someone elses self image and ego is oh so important.

Back to the daggers: I find older women will give me a blatant look of disgust if they see me being shamelessly affectionate with an gent. It's mostly civ women who react. Frankly that's not going to stop me from kissing him when he says something sweet that causes that urge. I wish it didn't boyher me but it does - when did it become okkau for such a woman to be so rude? One can't stop living because of what the odd stranger might think. You're right, let the rest of the world be damned.

Interestingly, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is people who attract attention (whether on a date or alone) without meaning to. Originally Posted by Camille

Oh I get ya there too. I'm not tall, my any stretch of the imagination ( no pun intended), but I do have huge boobs. I don't dress in a way that shows too much of them, because I think that's better kept BCD. But the fact of the matter is...they're there! You can't hide DDDs under a blouse, no matter how hard you try. I look like a pin-up girl, no matter what I wear, so I tend to make an effort at being tasteful so as not to distract from the rest of me and my actual "presence".

Camille's observation about fitting in reminded me of something I see all the time.

I'll be in a local sports bar/watering hole around lunchtime on a weekend. Invariably it will be full of middle aged regulars (mostly male) watching a ballgame. At least half a dozen times over the course of the afternoon an attractive twenty-something will walk in unescorted causing heads to turn, stomachs pressed in, chests thrust out, hair groomed and maybe even a quick whiff to make sure the smell is ok.

The act plays out the same everytime: she meekly hails a bartender and in an embarassed voice asks if she could retrieve the credit card she left her tab on the night before. You want to just nudge the guy next to you and say, "Buddy, don't waste your time, she sure as hell isn't here looking for you......"

You can't hide DDDs under a blouse, no matter how hard you try. Originally Posted by Nina Rae

Can we get a round of applause for the "girls?" :applause:

LOL, they can't help it.

Can we get a round of applause for the "girls?" :applause: Originally Posted by SR Only

If she'll just roll her shoulders, they will applaud themselves!