I miss Indy’s....

Indys was what it was, which was different depending on who is telling the story, but I ask this of all the Indys haters -

What would you give to have the shitty circa 2016 Indys back right now? ijs Originally Posted by AmishGangster

Not a damn thing - by 2016 Indys sucked

Now perhaps 2012 - I would happily welcome the hotties that were around then back

Indys was what it was, which was different depending on who is telling the story, but I ask this of all the Indys haters -

What would you give to have the shitty circa 2016 Indys back right now? ijs Originally Posted by AmishGangster

Yes.

Most of the girls was fairly well known regulars, you knew who you could trust and was a good time.

If you used the site on a regular bases you knew what reviewers you could trust.

It was an invaluable tool when it existed. I hobbied occasionally, but didn't have the time or disposable income to see everyone I wanted to see. If it existed now, I'd be broke and my d**k would probably fall off.

I agree. The original Indys was an invaluable tool. So were ERAPS and ASPD in their days. There seemed to a lot fewer unregulated tempers and keyboard crazies on those sites. The level of vitriol on this site seems to have chased all the ladies away. Indys and ASPD seemed to have a high level of participation from the ladies. That truly helped to get to know them better and to drive a better sense of community. On here, it seems like many are here just to create drama and attack anybody with any form of opinion about anything. Maybe my memory has faded, but I remember the active participant on the other sites staying mostly focused on the fact that the guys were on there to get laid and have a good time and the ladies were there to make the connections needed to manage their business as drama free as possible (with exceptions, of course). I often feel like those objectives have faded into the background here, at least in the Pittsburgh forums.

I agree. The original Indys was an invaluable tool. So were ERAPS and ASPD in their days. There seemed to a lot fewer unregulated tempers and keyboard crazies on those sites. The level of vitriol on this site seems to have chased all the ladies away. Indys and ASPD seemed to have a high level of participation from the ladies. That truly helped to get to know them better and to drive a better sense of community. Originally Posted by Typo

You obviously have no history of ECCIE which I guess given your join date is natural.

ECCIE operated for years along side INDYS. It was rare during those times to ever have ladies post here (with a couple notable exceptions) other than an occasional ad from a few. For the most part, Pittsburgh Hos looked down on ECCIE for a number of reasons. Unlike Indys which they controlled and was provider centric, ECCIE was just the opposite, being guy centric. In addition, guys came to ECCIE to post real reviews and exchange real hofo, reviews that they would have been bashed for posting over at Indys. Finally, guys at ECCIE saw and reviewed women from a wide variety of sources, Indys, Backpage, AMPs, etc - whereas Indys was pretty much a closed site regarding hofo.

So the ladies were never here (outside of a few exceptions). And the Pittsburgh forum kept growing and became more and more successful - and Indy's started failing before shutting down, reopening later then closing for good. A few providers then migrated here to post ads but due to changes in the law, the advertising forum here was eliminated - which eliminated their main reason for being here. You seem to want this site to be like the old Indys. Sorry, it never was that and with the law changes never will be. And I believe most veteran guys here are ok with that.

You obviously have no history of ECCIE which I guess given your join date is natural. Originally Posted by berryberry

Correct. I only joined here after seeing the direction the "new and improved Indys" was going. I was away from the hobby for a while as well.

guys came to ECCIE to post real reviews and exchange real hofo, reviews that they would have been bashed for posting over at Indys. Originally Posted by berryberry

I don't get the impression that the reviews here are any more real than they were on the other sites. There are so many shocking Yes recommendations and not very many No recommendations. I feel like I see more bashing of reviews on this site than I remember on the others. It's been long enough that my memory could be off in that regard, though.

Finally, guys at ECCIE saw and reviewed women from a wide variety of sources, Indys, Backpage, AMPs, etc - whereas Indys was pretty much a closed site regarding hofo. Originally Posted by berryberry

I definitely like the reviews of ladies from the wide variety of sources. I don't think I would have found some of those other sources if it weren't for Eccie.

You seem to want this site to be like the old Indys. Sorry, it never was that and with the law changes never will be. And I believe most veteran guys here are ok with that. Originally Posted by berryberry

No, I don't want this site to be like the old Indys. It is what it is and that's fine. For me, the old Indys offered a pretty simple way to find quality, professional providers. I was also able to fairly easily figure out how to read through the BS to figure out what the real HOFO was. I like to think I'm pretty good at it on here by now. The new laws have made it more complicated to book an appointment with an erratic schedule that doesn't let me do much booking in advance.

Without advertising and other functions here, I know the level of interaction from the ladies won't ever increase by much, but I do miss that part. Their engagement on the old Indys allowed their true personalities to shine through. For me that helped figure out who to see and not see. It seems to me that a number of the ladies who interact here only do so to engage in verbal combat. At least, that has helped me figure out who I don't want to see.

Typo,

I don't think your far off in your assessment about the participation of women at Eccie's, and it's even different than how it was for awhile at ASPD (all IMO, of course).

I think the reality is that a significant portion of the relevant user base of Eccie's is actively against greater provider participation in Eccie's. Whereas I think it was more 'neutral' at ASPD, and 'greatly desired' at Indy's.

There are pros/cons to a guys-only site, which is essentially the Eddie structure. I think what's true is that there is not a great desire to change that here, and if no provider ever logged onto Eccie again, many Eccie(Pittsburgh) posters would be happy with that.

I personally wouldn't mind if we would shift the mindset closer to at least 'neutral' on the subject, but that's way beyond my ability or strong desire to influence.

My two cents as someone who got their start from Indys back in 2012. I was posting reviews from time to time, but overall stayed away from standard message board banter. I certainly had some stinkers, but it was a great foot in the door. There are certain providers that I look back and wish were still active (maybe they are but only keep in touch with certain regulars. Any info would be great ). Names might be off, but I recall CMWYL, SexyNia, Cryss Styles, and carmelstar.

Overall, time changes everything. There are still some good resources now, but really this post was just a thank you to the Indys I remember.

I don't get the impression that the reviews here are any more real than they were on the other sites. There are so many shocking Yes recommendations and not very many No recommendations. I feel like I see more bashing of reviews on this site than I remember on the others. It's been long enough that my memory could be off in that regard, though. Originally Posted by Typo

Well I believe most guys here will tell you your impression is incorrect. The honest reviews and accurate hofo are what helped the Pittsburgh forum of ECCIE grow the last 10 years. There are far more negative reviews posted here than there ever were at Indys. Guys have the freedom to tell it like it is.

As far as Yes and no recommendations - you need to read the ROS. Some guys give qualified Yes just based on the poor Pittsburgh market but explain it in the ROS

You are correct - more reviews are called out here as we have a history of members calling out potential bullshit in order to keep the reviews honest and worthwhile. So members on this forum have called out reviews that look fake, seem posted by a Ho or her handler, etc. That self policing is a positive, not a negative

Providers on indys were allowed to have a “no review” policy. For the ones that you could actually review, they might show up a week, or a month, later, sometimes not at all. Other than the verification system, indys was useless imo. The reviews here were always much more honest.

Reviews are generally worthless unless you are trying to determine the likelihood you’ll get arrested or ripped off. Mood, circumstances, need, just about anything can change things and where most of your ladies are found the variables are endless. Add on the varying tastes in looks and technique and even the best of intentions are at best a shot in the dark.

The reviews here are even more worthless because they need to be 80% negative to fit into the bro club, that is why you see all the yes recommendations after the horror story typo. It’s the opposite of the useless TER ones where they are all penthouse letters detailing how the reviewer made the lady cum 75 times.

Reviews are generally worthless unless you are trying to determine the likelihood you’ll get arrested or ripped off. Mood, circumstances, need, just about anything can change things and where most of your ladies are found the variables are endless. Add on the varying tastes in looks and technique and even the best of intentions are at best a shot in the dark.

The reviews here are even more worthless because they need to be 80% negative to fit into the bro club, that is why you see all the yes recommendations after the horror story typo. It’s the opposite of the useless TER ones where they are all penthouse letters detailing how the reviewer made the lady cum 75 times. Originally Posted by MorganOBM

Morgan - I don't know you but I do recognize the name so I know you've been around for more than just a minute, however, your 2 points are slightly conflicting.
1. Correct, the yes/no review process at it's core should be just that; did the guy get hurt, ripped off or busted? Yes or No? Now, would *I* personally recommend her, given that I did not get hurt, ripped off or busted? Yes or No. Plain and simple.
2. the review process here (while I question why you might be able to see ROS, but that's a discussion for a different time) is not part of a bro-club, and compared to Indy's, is much more honest than Indy's ever could have imagined. I'm not a member of TER so I cannot compare these 3 platforms, but I can assure you that the reviews (and ROS) here is much closer to reality than Indy's ever was.

Typo,

I don't think your far off in your assessment about the participation of women at Eccie's, and it's even different than how it was for awhile at ASPD (all IMO, of course).

I think the reality is that a significant portion of the relevant user base of Eccie's is actively against greater provider participation in Eccie's. Whereas I think it was more 'neutral' at ASPD, and 'greatly desired' at Indy's.

There are pros/cons to a guys-only site, which is essentially the Eddie structure. I think what's true is that there is not a great desire to change that here, and if no provider ever logged onto Eccie again, many Eccie(Pittsburgh) posters would be happy with that.

I personally wouldn't mind if we would shift the mindset closer to at least 'neutral' on the subject, but that's way beyond my ability or strong desire to influence. Originally Posted by cabot

That's all Unusually Perceptive and Well Stated and I agree with all of it. Particularly Eccie guys seem to focus on the whole "Battle Of The Sexes" themes of Indys vs Eccie. And (no doubt) there are hobbyists on this site who (yep) STALK and HARRASS providers like Dreamgirl when she and other providers post on Eccie like it's some male "circle-jerk" ritual. Eccie has a whole "man-cave" vibe which did not exist as much on Indys. The PA Guys Room and OH Guys Room had "man cave" vibes, which is how it should be. You are correct. Eccie does not get the provider posting-traffic that the Indys Co-Ed Vouched section got because there are too many "man cave", anti-Indys guys, and simply anti-provider-post guys, on Eccie...

I never had a problem reading all the providers on the old Indys. I did not have some sort of instinctive "reaction" to their posts there like many of the "man cave" guys on this site do to providers posts here. The Co Ed Vouched section on Indys was one of many forums on that site. It was not the Most relevant (for me) forum. That would be the Guys Rooms forums. No doubt much about the hobby could be learned from reading the Co Ed Vouched Section, with all it's providers and hobbyists posting there. Many "hobby-topic" threads which got provider and hobbyist consideration, and that does Not happen on Eccie. Right now I imagine a bunch of Eccie "man cave" guys getting their Irish up to dispute all this....

The public review sections of Any hobby website? Also only a certain level of relevance at most times. Rate, General Location, General Availability, what "services" the provider does, and (simply) whether or not she is a Cop or a Psycho. Is she "safe" to see? That's all I need to learn from reviews....

On Eccie we read a bunch of guys who have some "quantum" and "involved" interpretation-rally of "the difference" between Indys and Eccie reviews. I never put much stock in reviews, so I don't "read into it" as much....

I don't predict Eccie will change and I don't think that is a problem. Yes, the reviews on Eccie are not much different than the reviews on Indys. New girls, "established" girls. Guys got involved on the Indys review-threads and "questioned" the reviews there just as much as all the "man cave" guys of Eccie brood and speculate about the "honesty" of reviews here, like it's some quantum-physics paradigm which needs to be de-constructed....

Eccie providers can answer it now: IS Eccie a "welcoming" environment? Yes or No? Many of the "man cave" guys on this site HAVE and DO alienate providers from this site. How many providers actually ADVERTISE (or even Post, post-FOSTA) on this site? More than ten (10)? If no more than a dozen providers ever advertise or post on this site then guys, and particularly the Eccie "man cave" guys, should ask themselves why....

Indys was what it was, which was different depending on who is telling the story, but I ask this of all the Indys haters -

What would you give to have the shitty circa 2016 Indys back right now? ijs Originally Posted by AmishGangster

An interesting question is when did Indys go into "decline", if it ever actually went into decline? Many would argue the Cleveland GTG bust put a damper on things. I stopped seeing providers "for a first time" late in 2008, and I continued seeing my ATF's for a few years after that. And then I moved on to SA almost exclusively. I definitely read Indys right through to the end though. Chock full of entertaining and lucid "hobby-content", to put it mildly. The Mandy/BluBandit event read like Gone With The Wind mixed with World War Z with all the zombie's running around posting their opinions and assessments. That was 2010 if I remember correctly...

One "divide" in the history of Indys was the advent of SA in Pittsburgh. I was on SA for a couple years before it got any press on Indys and then Eccie. It was "untouched" as Nicky Santoro said about Vegas in the movie "Casino." Affordable girls, many "newbies". The advantage of many Indys and then Eccie hobby guys moving to SA is that then all the SA girls quickly learned "what was expected of them". But after Indys and then Eccie guys moved to SA then the whole SA scene got too "crowded" and then SA girls stopped reliably answering their PM's. Numerous SA girls have told me variations of "I have 50 unread PM's in my inbox".....

The last several years of Indys many of the "old timer" guys were moving to SA. THAT was a "dividing line" in the history of Indys and the whole PGH and OH hobby-scenes....

And I can name dozens (Dozens) of PGH and OH hobby-guys who simply never made it to Eccie, for better or worse....

Reviews are generally worthless unless you are trying to determine the likelihood you’ll get arrested or ripped off. Mood, circumstances, need, just about anything can change things and where most of your ladies are found the variables are endless. Add on the varying tastes in looks and technique and even the best of intentions are at best a shot in the dark.

The reviews here are even more worthless because they need to be 80% negative to fit into the bro club, that is why you see all the yes recommendations after the horror story typo. It’s the opposite of the useless TER ones where they are all penthouse letters detailing how the reviewer made the lady cum 75 times. Originally Posted by MorganOBM

Sorry but that is not accurate. Reviews and real hofo have been the draw here for 10 years. If reviews were worthless, that would not be the case. Yes, reviews help determine the likelihood you’ll not get arrested or ripped off. But they also determine who may be worthwhile seeing. Veterans on this site know which mongers are dead on accurate with their reviews. Sure, mood / circumstances can always change things, but if a trusted monger posts details of a very good experience, then it is highly likely others will have a similar experience.

Also guys learn who has similar tastes in women

And no - the reviews here don't need to be 80% negative to fit into the bro club. That is laughable and highly inaccurate. Not sure how you even reach that conclusion.