WHAT HAPPENS WHEN CITIZENS ARE DISARMED.......

No you just wanted to correct JD for "speculating" wrongly...................

that's funny. Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Here is my exact statement:

"WOW!! Where to start to correct your incorrect or speculative statements. Would the bikers have broken off the assault if Lien had shown a gun. Please show us the "statistics" to which you are referring. Pure speculation."

His first statement was pure speculation and I NEVER said his scenario of what might have happened was WRONG. It most certainly have come off just as JD said it might.
I did ask for the source of the statistics to which he was referring.

The "incorrect" statements to which I was referring were later on.

You're a fucking idiot, Whirlygay.

Guns for everybody! YAY! Then we'll find out how well gunshot wounds are covered under AHCA!

Loony!

And No you haven't answered the question; you only regurgitated existing NY state laws....

Again, Why are you so intent on taking away Lien's options to defend himself ?

I will speculate your answer, since you want to dodge:

Answer: Because you don't think Lien should have an option (like a handgun) to defend himself ! Originally Posted by Whirlaway

I make it so easy to understand and you make it so difficult. You are ignoring the FACT that NY is a much safer state than most and NYC is a much safer city than most other U.S. cities. That is why I believe that granting individuals such as Lien the right to carry a handgun is not a good idea. It will open the door to others who want access to handguns to commit crimes. Either NY has citizens with higher morals than other states or the gun restrictions are keeping guns out of the hands of would-be criminals. I am not pushing gun control in any other city or state. The problem, IMHO, with groups like the NRA and others who support 2nd Amendment rights at all costs is that the bottom line is ignored. Sometimes gun control laws actually work.


IF NY laws did not seem to be working then I would say every individual in the state who qualifies should be able to own a handgun to defend him- or herself.

So you are willing to let people be victimized (killed, raped, abducted, or otherwise abused) because you (wrongly) believe statistically it produces lower crime rates ?

Idiot.

So you are willing to let people be victimized (killed, raped, abducted, or otherwise abused) because you (wrongly) believe statistically it produces lower crime rates ?

Idiot. Originally Posted by Whirlaway

That is the pot calling the kettle black. If it can be proven that a law lowers the rate of people being victimized (killed, raped, abducted, or otherwise abused) then yes I support it.

And since you believe I believe so wrongly, please put up or STFU. I have presented FACTS as to the low homicide rate in NY compared to other states with much less restrictive gun control policies . You have given us nothing but off-the-wall opinion. If you think the statistics are not due to NY's gun control laws, why the huge difference in firearm homicides between NY and Texas? Please enlighten us with your wisdom.

With the right to carry, Lien would have the option to decide for himself....without that right, Lien is left to be a defenseless victim.......... Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Thugs don't give a shit, they get their hands on whatever they need, black market or however it may be. People who are abiding by the law and jumping through hoops to no prevail and for what, to remain defenseless in time of need? What the fuck happened to self defense? I guess we can just throw that option out the window. I agree with Whirlaway, Lien could have would have and should have had the option to decide for himself; and without that right he was left to be a defenseless victim, which is horrible and fucking sad. Consider for a brief second if Lien were in your immediate family or a cousin, relative or dear friend, I bet that would cause the tables to turn.

I think what would have happened is that Lien would have an option to shoot or not shoot depending on his state of mind.....and Lien would have to decide for himself what course of action was appropriate.

Since you want me to speculate; here is a reasonable speculation = if new yorkers had the right to carry, this incident may never happened. Originally Posted by Whirlaway

I agree. I can imagine bikers/thugs wanting to hit easy targets. If you look like a certain type, like you probably don't have a gun, makes their job pretty damn easy and clean. However, Lien flashes a gun, and the head guy waves his buddies on... not this one, next. I think all it would have taken is the flash of a gun, I don't think Lien would have had to fire it. I think thugs shoot when they feel the need to. Lien flashing his gun would be saying I have a gun and this could get messy and one of your buddies may end up dead and if you're willing to risk that then let's go. I think the bikers would picked the next fly.

According to statistics the bikers would probably have broken off the assault to protect themselves. Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Yep.

I say give the Police investigation time to sort this out. Hopefully, they can bring who ever is wrong here to some type of justice. Originally Posted by Jackie S

Hopefully? Damn. I had no choice because I was defenseless and now that it's in the hands of the Police I cross my fingers? Hmmm.......

I am all for a law abiding citizen's right to blow the living shit out of thugs who wish to rob us and do us bodily harm. Originally Posted by Jackie S

+1000 and then some!!!

Let me see if I have this right...

NYC is the place where last week the cops fired on a perp in Times Square and hit everyone else who was there except for the perp? That's helpful.

But, you Teawipe Klowns probably can't shoot any better with a pistol under duress than those guys. Of course, now we will have to listen to wild b.s. tales of you Teawipes' target shooting prowess - that'll be lots of fun.

Well you know, you can't be a Teawipe less'n you can shoot off a skeeter's wings at 900 yards!

Danial Boon was a tea wipe?

He was fairly well armed with a SUV when he hit the bikers knocking one off his bike and doing damage .Why did you think they ran this thug down and kicked his ass? Originally Posted by i'va biggen

Did anyone notice what this brain damaged libtard had to say. This fucker is STUPID...LOL

You are happy with Mr. Lien not having the option to defend his family, despite the fact it took an hour for police to show up.................I get it !

Gun restrictions aren't keeping NYC safer; but law enforcement presence is ! In Mr. Lien's case, their presence couldn't be counted on, I want him to have the right to defend himself, apparently you do not !

NYC has one of the highest concentrations of law enforcement per population; far higher than other cities in states like Texas.

Law enforcement presence is what is keeping the lid on crime in NY; not gun regulation !

I make it so easy to understand and you make it so difficult. You are ignoring the FACT that NY is a much safer state than most and NYC is a much safer city than most other U.S. cities. That is why I believe that granting individuals such as Lien the right to carry a handgun is not a good idea. It will open the door to others who want access to handguns to commit crimes. Either NY has citizens with higher morals than other states or the gun restrictions are keeping guns out of the hands of would-be criminals. I am not pushing gun control in any other city or state. The problem, IMHO, with groups like the NRA and others who support 2nd Amendment rights at all costs is that the bottom line is ignored. Sometimes gun control laws actually work.


IF NY laws did not seem to be working then I would say every individual in the state who qualifies should be able to own a handgun to defend him- or herself. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Did anyone notice what this brain damaged libtard had to say. This fucker is STUPID...LOL Originally Posted by IIFFOFRDB

Speaking of a stupid fucker thanks for showing your stupidity whiffy iffy.

You are happy with Mr. Lien not having the option to defend his family, despite the fact it took an hour for police to show up.................I get it !

Gun restrictions aren't keeping NYC safer; but law enforcement presence is ! In Mr. Lien's case, their presence couldn't be counted on, I want him to have the right to defend himself, apparently you do not !

NYC has one of the highest concentrations of law enforcement per population; far higher than other cities in states like Texas.

Law enforcement presence is what is keeping the lid on crime in NY; not gun regulation ! Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Certainly your opinion, right or wrong. Obviously you have no facts to back up your opinion. Here is one source of information that totally blows your opinion out of the water.

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20121001/new-york-city/nypd-shrinks-bad-old-days-size-while-bloombergs-city-workforce-grows

There are now roughly 34,500 cops on the beat, about the same number as there were in 1992 when the city was besieged by crime and down from 37,000 in 2002 when Bloomberg took office.

So in the last 20 years the number of police in NYC has not grown yet the homicide rate has dropped significantly. Now I'm not saying what is in fact lowering the NYC homicide rate, but it is NOT the number of police officers on the street as you suggest.

Nice try though.

And what has been the signficant changes in law enforcement in NYC over the past 20 years ?????????????

A near zero tolerance; read what Giuliani and Bloomberg did to turn the city around during that time frame...it had nothing to do with gun control legislation, and everything to do with Federalizing crimes, street level enforcement of minor offenses, tougher sentencing, and a whole host of other law enforcement efforts - NOTHING TO DO WITH GUN CONTROL !

You need to read up on the facts; Giuliani's "broken window" theory on turning the corner on crime....it has nothing to do with gun control !

[I]The police measure that most consistently reduces crime is the arrest rate... Felony arrest rates (except for motor vehicle thefts) rose 50 to 70 percent in the 1990s. When arrests of burglars increased 10 percent, the number of burglaries fell 2.7 to 3.2 percent. When the arrest rate of robbers rose 10 percent, the number of robberies fell 5.7 to 5.9 percent."[/I

The police measure that most consistently reduces crime is the arrest rate... Felony arrest rates (except for motor vehicle thefts) rose 50 to 70 percent in the 1990s. When arrests of burglars increased 10 percent, the number of burglaries fell 2.7 to 3.2 percent. When the arrest rate of robbers rose 10 percent, the number of robberies fell 5.7 to 5.9 percent."

http://www.nber.org/papers/w9061

SO SHUT THE FUCK UP UNTIL YOU UNDERSTAND THE FACTS !

Certainly your opinion, right or wrong. Obviously you have no facts to back up your opinion. Here is one source of information that totally blows your opinion out of the water.

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20121001/new-york-city/nypd-shrinks-bad-old-days-size-while-bloombergs-city-workforce-grows

There are now roughly 34,500 cops on the beat, about the same number as there were in 1992 when the city was besieged by crime and down from 37,000 in 2002 when Bloomberg took office.

So in the last 20 years the number of police in NYC has not grown yet the homicide rate has dropped significantly. Now I'm not saying what is in fact lowering the NYC homicide rate, but it is NOT the number of police officers on the street as you suggest.

Nice try though. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Whirly is right...http://www.governing.com/gov-data/sa...or-cities.html