So i can tell the county how much my house is worth at tax time and i can tell the bank how much my home is worth while getting a loan. You libs live in fantasy land. Originally Posted by bigguytYou are so right. I find it hard to believe some people are so ill-informed and post showing this to the world - but then again they are libs, so yeah I can believe it
- berryberry
- 09-25-2022, 11:18 PM
- eyecu2
- 09-26-2022, 08:04 AM
novice investors like BX2 doesn't understand the simple concepts of when a liability becomes an asset?
When does debt create income?
When debts create more cash flow than they cost, they become an asset. Which is how almost 99% of real estate investors create an INCOME stream. That along with refinances to create either better terms, or extending the debt, or refinancing in order to withdraw some of the equity out of a property which can be used for............
CASH FLOW.
Here's a link for some enlightening information on other investment strategies which you didn't get in your accounting 101 classes.....LOL I doubt you even took that one either.
Robert Kiyosaki’s Top 6 Rules Of Money
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sacJVKPsoB4
And for the record, if convicted- trump will go down for tax evasion when it's all said and done.
the non-sense of there needing to be a victim on the banking side to be fraud is in-correct. There need not be damages or harm actually to occur for an offense to be valid. The intent of misleading or creating a false narrative in order to persuade or influence banks to lend money is the fraud. The hurt party would be the government not getting the fair value of taxation on the same stated value of property. But again, above your reptardian brain level of comprehension.
The copy and paste police would consider you a fraud for creating false narratives with your assertions.
When does debt create income?
When debts create more cash flow than they cost, they become an asset. Which is how almost 99% of real estate investors create an INCOME stream. That along with refinances to create either better terms, or extending the debt, or refinancing in order to withdraw some of the equity out of a property which can be used for............
CASH FLOW.
Here's a link for some enlightening information on other investment strategies which you didn't get in your accounting 101 classes.....LOL I doubt you even took that one either.
Robert Kiyosaki’s Top 6 Rules Of Money
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sacJVKPsoB4
And for the record, if convicted- trump will go down for tax evasion when it's all said and done.
the non-sense of there needing to be a victim on the banking side to be fraud is in-correct. There need not be damages or harm actually to occur for an offense to be valid. The intent of misleading or creating a false narrative in order to persuade or influence banks to lend money is the fraud. The hurt party would be the government not getting the fair value of taxation on the same stated value of property. But again, above your reptardian brain level of comprehension.
The copy and paste police would consider you a fraud for creating false narratives with your assertions.
- berryberry
- 09-26-2022, 11:33 AM
novice investors like BX2 doesn't understand the simple concepts of when a liability becomes an asset?OMG - this is beyond embarrassing for you. It is clear that you know absolutely nothing about basic accounting
When does debt create income?
When debts create more cash flow than they cost, they become an asset. Originally Posted by eyecu2
Do you even know what GAAP means? How about FASB?
Do you even understand what an asset and liability are?
This is just laughable. A college freshman taking Basic Accounting after one month knows more than you do
And once again, you could not answer the questions posed. How is it a crime that:
1. Trump borrowed money from banks who did their own due diligence
2. Trump then paid back the money borrowed with interest
3. The banks profited on the deal based on the terms they set
Why is that?
- lustylad
- 09-26-2022, 02:28 PM
OMG - this is beyond embarrassing for you. It is clear that you know absolutely nothing about basic accounting... Originally Posted by berryberryI agree, berry, but let's give eye a smidgen of credit for trying. I think we both know what he's TRYING to say...
A liability doesn't "become" an asset. If you buy (or build) a property using borrowed money, you acquire both an asset (the property) and a liability (the debt). Both are booked simultaneously and added to your personal balance sheet/financial statement.
Debt doesn't "create income". Not even when it's used to buy rental property. If the rental property is vacant, it generates no income. If it becomes occupied by rent-paying tenants, the owner does start receiving an income stream. But the debt only creates a servicing obligation, not the income stream.
I think what eye is trying to say is the cashflow for a buyer of rental property is often negative in the first few years, when the costs of debt servicing, taxes and maintenance, etc. usually exceed any rental income. This flips (to positive cashflow) as the debt is paid down over time. But the debt doesn't "create" the cashflow, nor does it "become an asset".
Is that clearer?
- lustylad
- 09-26-2022, 02:38 PM
Letitia James vs. the Trump Family
New York’s AG found her defendants first, then looked for evidence to charge them with something.
By The Editorial Board
Sept. 22, 2022 6:43 pm ET
Common wisdom says that on a good day state attorneys general do 70% politics and 30% law. That’s on a good day. On Wednesday New York Attorney General Letitia James lived up to that reputation by filing a civil lawsuit against Donald Trump. The suit alleges that the former President and three of his children inflated the asset values and net worth of their properties to get better terms from banks on loans and better deals from insurers.
Ms. James ran for office promising to indict Mr. Trump, which is the opposite of the way justice should be done. You’re supposed to find a crime and then identify the perpetrator. Ms. James declared Mr. Trump could “be indicted for criminal offenses” and has hunted ever since for a crime to charge him with.
Her civil lawsuit requires a mere preponderance of evidence standard to prove guilt, not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. She has referred the case to the Internal Revenue Service and federal prosecutors in Manhattan, though the Manhattan district attorney didn’t file charges after examining the same issues.
This isn’t to dismiss the financial fraud charges. The lawsuit says Mr. Trump used “objectively false numbers to calculate property values,” including counting his Trump Tower apartment at 30,000 sq. ft. when it was 10,996 sq. ft. so that it could be improperly valued at $327 million. His golf course in Scotland was valued at $327 million on the calculation that 2,500 homes could be developed (worth $267 million) when he had zoning approval for only 1,500 homes and apartments.
“All told, Mr. Trump, the Trump Organization, and the other Defendants, as part of a repeated pattern and common scheme, derived more than 200 false and misleading valuations of assets,” the lawsuit says.
No one who has ever listened to Mr. Trump will be surprised if he hyped the value of his holdings in dealing with bankers. But then no one in New York finance would ever trust only what Mr. Trump claims before signing a document or lending him money.
As far as we’ve seen, the lenders don’t seem to consider themselves victims. They made money on the loans, which didn’t default. The transactions were presumably scoured by auditors and bank due-diligence officers. There is enormous variability in real-estate valuations. The question Ms. James will have to prove is whether Mr. Trump’s claims amounted to intentional fraud.
The scent of politics can be detected in the sanctions Ms. James is seeking. She wrapped the three adult Trump children into the suit and is seeking to bar them for life from being officers of any business in New York. Mr. Trump would be barred from entering into any commercial real-estate acquisitions in New York state for five years and also barred from applying for loans from “any financial institution chartered by or registered with the New York Department of Financial Services” for five years.
She is also seeking $250 million in restitution, which probably exceeds the interest earned on the difference in interest rates that banks might have charged Mr. Trump if his assets were worth less than advertised.
Ms. James’s decision to drop this lawsuit only a few weeks before the midterm election also smacks of political motivation. Mr. Trump isn’t on any ballot. But she knows Mr. Trump drives Democrats to vote, and keeping him at the center of the news is a Democratic priority.
Mr. Trump has made a business and political career of getting away with whatever he can, and it’s easy to imagine he crossed a line. But the Democrats pursuing him have become Captain Ahabs bent on taking him down by any means necessary. Ms. James is a partisan prosecutor, and her charges and evidence need to be examined in that context.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/letitia...te-11663883532
New York’s AG found her defendants first, then looked for evidence to charge them with something.
By The Editorial Board
Sept. 22, 2022 6:43 pm ET
Common wisdom says that on a good day state attorneys general do 70% politics and 30% law. That’s on a good day. On Wednesday New York Attorney General Letitia James lived up to that reputation by filing a civil lawsuit against Donald Trump. The suit alleges that the former President and three of his children inflated the asset values and net worth of their properties to get better terms from banks on loans and better deals from insurers.
Ms. James ran for office promising to indict Mr. Trump, which is the opposite of the way justice should be done. You’re supposed to find a crime and then identify the perpetrator. Ms. James declared Mr. Trump could “be indicted for criminal offenses” and has hunted ever since for a crime to charge him with.
Her civil lawsuit requires a mere preponderance of evidence standard to prove guilt, not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. She has referred the case to the Internal Revenue Service and federal prosecutors in Manhattan, though the Manhattan district attorney didn’t file charges after examining the same issues.
This isn’t to dismiss the financial fraud charges. The lawsuit says Mr. Trump used “objectively false numbers to calculate property values,” including counting his Trump Tower apartment at 30,000 sq. ft. when it was 10,996 sq. ft. so that it could be improperly valued at $327 million. His golf course in Scotland was valued at $327 million on the calculation that 2,500 homes could be developed (worth $267 million) when he had zoning approval for only 1,500 homes and apartments.
“All told, Mr. Trump, the Trump Organization, and the other Defendants, as part of a repeated pattern and common scheme, derived more than 200 false and misleading valuations of assets,” the lawsuit says.
No one who has ever listened to Mr. Trump will be surprised if he hyped the value of his holdings in dealing with bankers. But then no one in New York finance would ever trust only what Mr. Trump claims before signing a document or lending him money.
As far as we’ve seen, the lenders don’t seem to consider themselves victims. They made money on the loans, which didn’t default. The transactions were presumably scoured by auditors and bank due-diligence officers. There is enormous variability in real-estate valuations. The question Ms. James will have to prove is whether Mr. Trump’s claims amounted to intentional fraud.
The scent of politics can be detected in the sanctions Ms. James is seeking. She wrapped the three adult Trump children into the suit and is seeking to bar them for life from being officers of any business in New York. Mr. Trump would be barred from entering into any commercial real-estate acquisitions in New York state for five years and also barred from applying for loans from “any financial institution chartered by or registered with the New York Department of Financial Services” for five years.
She is also seeking $250 million in restitution, which probably exceeds the interest earned on the difference in interest rates that banks might have charged Mr. Trump if his assets were worth less than advertised.
Ms. James’s decision to drop this lawsuit only a few weeks before the midterm election also smacks of political motivation. Mr. Trump isn’t on any ballot. But she knows Mr. Trump drives Democrats to vote, and keeping him at the center of the news is a Democratic priority.
Mr. Trump has made a business and political career of getting away with whatever he can, and it’s easy to imagine he crossed a line. But the Democrats pursuing him have become Captain Ahabs bent on taking him down by any means necessary. Ms. James is a partisan prosecutor, and her charges and evidence need to be examined in that context.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/letitia...te-11663883532
- berryberry
- 09-26-2022, 03:04 PM
I agree, berry, but let's give eye a smidgen of credit for trying. I think we both know what he's TRYING to say...While what you wrote is clear, I think you are giving him far too much credit even if it is JUST a smidgeon for trying. He really has no idea what he is trying to say. Just look at these quotes that show he is far out of his depths
A liability doesn't "become" an asset. If you buy (or build) a property using borrowed money, you acquire both an asset (the property) and a liability (the debt). Both are booked simultaneously and added to your personal balance sheet/financial statement.
Debt doesn't "create income". Not even when it's used to buy rental property. If the rental property is vacant, it generates no income. If it becomes occupied by rent-paying tenants, the owner does start receiving an income stream. But the debt only creates a servicing obligation, not the income stream.
I think what eye is trying to say is the cashflow for a buyer of rental property is often negative in the first few years, when the costs of debt servicing, taxes and maintenance, etc. usually exceed any rental income. This flips (to positive cashflow) as the debt is paid down over time. But the debt doesn't "create" the cashflow, nor does it "become an asset".
Is that clearer? Originally Posted by lustylad
What it tells me is that you never had to value a business; for purposes of creating a income statement or value statement. How a business or the real-estate portion of it, is only valued at the drive by of a appraisal. Yeahh....But Mazar's is not a bank, hmmmm so how was it that they were involved on any of that?? Why would an accounting firm have any input in the value of a property as MAZURS has not declined being any way accurate from this point forward? Originally Posted by eyecu2A value statement. LOL. I must have missed that one in all my years working. There are balance sheets, income statements, and statements of cash flows.
And it is clear he does not understand the role of an independent accounting firm in reviewing / auditing financial statements nor does he understand how a bank does their own due diligence and appraisals before lending money
if he paid lower taxes on property by falsely claiming they were worth less than loans applied for, that is tax fraud. Originally Posted by eyecu2I mean how stupid does one have to be to think the government lets people tell them what their property is worth so the government can assess them property taxes based solely on their word?
Since the IRS only taxes people on income, they cannot tax him on the increased debt taken on, so almost all of Trump's income likely comes from refinances, & over finances of mortgages. What's interesting is that debt income such as from the proceeds of a mortgage, are not taxable at all, Originally Posted by eyecu2LOL - Debt income. That one would make any accounting professor shudder
What I believe has happened here is he found yet another "We Got Him This Time story" after being fooled 20+ times before. And he so wants it to be true that he is probably reading some uneducated and ill informed libtards and regurgitating that information pretending he understands it, while his comments show a complete lack of any understanding of basic accounting and finance
He should just admit it instead of doubling down with more and more sillier statements
- lustylad
- 09-26-2022, 03:31 PM
Lol. As I said, I agree with you.
Except for this part:
If you are thinking of buying (or selling) a business, you want to make sure you don't overpay (or sell too cheap). So you hire an appraiser to give you a professional estimate of what the business is currently worth. Such estimates typically apply various methodologies including comparable sales price data, industry EBITDA multiples, and/or DCF (discounted cashflow) analysis.
Eye asked "why would an accounting firm have any input in the value of a property"? Evidently he doesn't know that most big accounting firms employ experts who are trained to perform appraisals for their clients - of everything from vacant lots to commercial skyscrapers to billion-dollar businesses. That's what they do as part of their advisory services. They don't just do audits.
Except for this part:
A value statement. LOL. I must have missed that one in all my years working. There are balance sheets, income statements, and statements of cash flows. Originally Posted by berryberryGranted, an appraisal (or "value" estimate) is not one of the 3 standard financial statements every business compiles. Nevertheless, I'm surprised you've never seen one.
If you are thinking of buying (or selling) a business, you want to make sure you don't overpay (or sell too cheap). So you hire an appraiser to give you a professional estimate of what the business is currently worth. Such estimates typically apply various methodologies including comparable sales price data, industry EBITDA multiples, and/or DCF (discounted cashflow) analysis.
Eye asked "why would an accounting firm have any input in the value of a property"? Evidently he doesn't know that most big accounting firms employ experts who are trained to perform appraisals for their clients - of everything from vacant lots to commercial skyscrapers to billion-dollar businesses. That's what they do as part of their advisory services. They don't just do audits.
- berryberry
- 09-26-2022, 04:42 PM
Lol. As I said, I agree with you.If by value statement he really meant an appraisal, then I do agree with you. I have seen plenty of appraisals - just never heard any financial colleague call them value statements (and since he talked separately about appraisals, it seemed he was talking about something else rather than using the term interchangeably especially when you consider some of his other incorrect statements).
Except for this part:
Granted, an appraisal (or "value" estimate) is not one of the 3 standard financial statements every business compiles. Nevertheless, I'm surprised you've never seen one.
If you are thinking of buying (or selling) a business, you want to make sure you don't overpay (or sell too cheap). So you hire an appraiser to give you a professional estimate of what the business is currently worth. Such estimates typically apply various methodologies including comparable sales price data, industry EBITDA multiples, and/or DCF (discounted cashflow) analysis.
Eye asked "why would an accounting firm have any input in the value of a property"? Evidently he doesn't know that most big accounting firms employ experts who are trained to perform appraisals for their clients - of everything from vacant lots to commercial skyscrapers to billion-dollar businesses. That's what they do as part of their advisory services. They don't just do audits. Originally Posted by lustylad
As you note, this is not part of a standard financial statement. Appraisals are mainly used when you are buying a building, a company, taking out a loan, etc. Although I preferred doing our own in house DCF analysis for smaller entity acquisitions.