BBFS - A plea for change

Thanks to everyone for their input. I have to agree with much of what has been said, as unfortunate as that is.

If it were one provider doing bb with one client, I don't know that I'd have that big of a problem as long as they are safe with everyone else. It is my understanding that these providers are not choosy about who else they do bb with. That's the part that scares me. (I'm sure is same for the bb clients)

Again, I'm not naming names. I don't like drama or gossip. I don't want to be ran off this board for accusing someone. We all know it would be publicly denied by everyone involved. It is unfortunate that the providers are very well reviewed, very popular and (formerly?)well respected.

I agree that there may be a reason for the crickets chirping, but maybe it is just that they are away from board right now and unable to weigh in. It could be that there are a lot more people (providers and clients) who are doing bbfs than anyone is aware of.

lol @ bj.

From my POV, there is a difference between a client demanding bb and a provider offering it. Both are dumashell (IMHO).

What we have here is said client and said provider together. It was much less of an issue IF it had been kept between the two of them. The involvement of 3rd parties was not a brainiac thing to do though was it? Nothing like a 'first hand' witness.

Drama? NO. Several providers have known for a while. I can only speak for myself, but the bb issue has become part of my screening practice. If I know the client is going to pull the "I can't reach it with" - he doesn't even need to contact me. That statement is a lie btw - you have trained yourself to that BY CHOICE. Yes, you can get there w/out bbfs. I can get you there. BUt I will noyt spend one minute (much less an hour or more) dealing with "please, I need, please, just let me, well XXX let's me"

As for providers going bbfs. I have a friend shooting porn right now - and porn is going covered. So again - bullshit.

BBFS is a health hazard in our particular type of community.
Tess didn't post this to 'out' anyone. She is trying to raise the awareness level within our community annd by doing so...hopefully putting the brakes on it. Originally Posted by babee

It's time for me to weigh in on the BBFS subject also. I appreciate Tess's starting this thread and reminding us all to renew our efforts to be safe while having fun.

Okay, I admit to some BBFS, in particular with a very few gents I have known since I began in the Biz a few years back. And I've done a few doubles with these guys BBFS when I thought the lady had also had the same experience with him. (I found out later that, particularly with one, that was not the case and for my poor example I am truly sorry.) Let me hasten to say that BBFS certainly has NEVER been the norm for me in the hobby; far from it. As many of you know, I was involved in the swinging lifestyle for most of my adult life. While many of the aspects are similar, on some things I found quickly there is a big difference. There is a need for more discretion among hobbyists and providers for one, and for another, without exception condom use is expected in the hobby.

I've grown. While I wouldn't divulge anything I'd learned about a hobbyist during a session and I despise gossip, I also now know that its not so good to share so much about MY personal life either. While I would never ask or even suggest to a hobbyist to participate in BBFS, I did in the past let it slide when I knew the hobbyist well. I have definitely rethought my position on that. I plan to make sure every client knows how I feel, including those who are close to me.

I'm sure my reputation for my extensive toy collection precedes me. Most of those I have purchased online when actually shopping for lubes and condoms. I'm an experimenter. I love trying something different. If I see a toy that looks different I want to try it out. The same goes for lubes and condoms. In fact, one of my favorite activities is to "test-drive" several condom and lube brands and types back to back to find out the differences. (PM me for more details if you're interested.) I even contemplated getting condoms with my name on the package. Then I realized no one but my clients would know, and even they might not even realize it...LOL. (Hence, the personalized M&Ms.) My favorite online condom site is www.ripnroll.com.

Again, thank you Tess for helping to raise our awareness with this reminder thread. And thank you to those who made positive comments.

One last thing, (and I know I'm dating myself now), remember the line from that old TV show, Hill Street Blues, "Let's be careful out there!" In case you're too young to remember, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2QApwtE8zQ. That should be the mantra for every hobbyist and provider.

I feel I also need to add a little twist, a line I use frequently in ECCIE threads that get out of hand, "Let's play nice out there." Let's keep to the valuable topic of safe sex and not slide down that slippery slope of suggestive gossip. You know what I mean..."I heard that she..." or "Did you know that he..." or "They must be guilty because..." or "She never uses..." or "He always wants..." Even in the most well-intentioned threads, there are sometimes unintended implications or suggestions that may point to unnamed individuals. When that happens others may often get off-topic and the original purpose of the thread is lost.

Smooch!

Lea

An admission of it and hints as to who the ladies might be.....

Let's see.....she has done a double with belinda.

She's posts moreso in tennessee......

She's highly reviewed in the southern most parts of this board.

This should be easy to figure out.....ill compile a list I guess.

But I'm sure the ladies involved I wasn't trying to seek anyway.

But this thread gets more attention because a lady is posting of her knowledge of it. If it was a hobbyist who posted about a "mystery" provider who does bbfs it would be a totally different situation. Some ladies (the perpetrators) may take lea posting her info here as an attack or a show of decline in her business based on their advanced and unsafe services she won't provide. Which of course and most hobbyist wouldn't partake in.

But to post a thread, give hints scattered in it, and then whiff when asked about it seems shady to me. It hinders potential clients who aren't aware of backchannel and don't know who it is.......so if these guys use these ladies as references do you send email correspondence saying.....sorry guy, she does bbfs and I don't want to see you because your on her network.

I don't mind speculating......I mean the list of ladies is short who are highly reviewed with those hints....

I guess ill ask backchannel.....that's a damn shame for the new hobbyist though.

As far a safety goes....if a provider had a known disease it couldn't and wouldn't stay posted. All the reviews would be deleted to protect those affected....but guess what. They are still gonna hobby. Can someone have the testicular fortitude or the "ovarian audacity" to post who this is please.

Or just pm me so I know who to avoid as others want to know....I won't tell nobody........same result.

This is just another "provider murder" alert thread with no info in site.

As far a safety goes....if a provider had a known disease it couldn't and wouldn't stay posted. All the reviews would be deleted to protect those affected....but guess what. They are still gonna hobby. Can someone have the testicular fortitude or the "ovarian audacity" to post who this is please. Originally Posted by gimme_that

Actually, Gimme That, mention of some things, like disease, medications that imply disease, and drugs, in posts on ECCIE is not allowed by the ECCIE rules when it says or implies that a particular person uses drugs or has a disease. Similarly, it is not permitted to make specific accusations in open threads.

This thread is within the rules. And it is important for what it does. It reminds us that bad judgment, while sometimes hard to recognize by the person exercising that bad judgment at the time, is still bad judgment. I suspect a number of us, including myself, will benefit from that reminder.

JaG

Tess, I don't understand why you would be concerned if you don't do BB and just cover up and be safe.
You mentioned there are some providers that are not choosy in doing BB services and you wouldn't want to do services with clients that has be seen by such providers.
YOU KEEP POINTING OUT WELL REVIEWED PROVIDERS and I am getting a strong suggestive idea to stay clear of such women. You also wrote thats its UNFORTUNATE that they are well reviewed. I seen Lea about a year ago and I am not a BB client. She would still get a great review from me.
Maybe I am wrong but I am getting the idea that some providers are getting great reviews due to BB service? or some providers are jealous of popular providers?
What does it matter as long as YOU choose safety and enforce it?
The message you made was it could be harmful to those that don't participate in BB activities. Please educate me if I can get something when I use protection.
Can I get something from kissing, DATY, hj, or anything else ?
Lets get specific on the concern reasons please.You have me wondering and did you go to these providers and voice your concern?

An admission of it and hints as to who the ladies might be.....

Let's see.....she has done a double with belinda.

She's posts moreso in tennessee......

She's highly reviewed in the southern most parts of this board.

This should be easy to figure out.....ill compile a list I guess.

But I'm sure the ladies involved I wasn't trying to seek anyway.

But this thread gets more attention because a lady is posting of her knowledge of it. If it was a hobbyist who posted about a "mystery" provider who does bbfs it would be a totally different situation. Some ladies (the perpetrators) may take lea posting her info here as an attack or a show of decline in her business based on their advanced and unsafe services she won't provide. Which of course and most hobbyist wouldn't partake in.

I completely don't understand these statements.


But to post a thread, give hints scattered in it, and then whiff when asked about it seems shady to me. It hinders potential clients who aren't aware of backchannel and don't know who it is.......so if these guys use these ladies as references do you send email correspondence saying.....sorry guy, she does bbfs and I don't want to see you because your on her network.
So so wrong. Read the thread again. Both Tess and Belinda left enough ambiguity that it could be damn near anyone. HOW we handle our business is our business. I understand where you are trying to go with this and it's a dead end. However, if you are wanting to go there, then you go there with me, not these ladies who have more courage and class than I do. After all, I knew and I didn't either have the class, the courage or the brains to figure out a way to bring it to light as well as Tess has. And I think I'm the one who (purposely yes) pushed the who it is issue. Since I'm not based in MS - well my biz is much less apt to suffer is it not? I will say I had a few reasons to post so pointed of 'who it is'. ONE reason was to pointedly say 'Yes. I AM talking to YOU.' And we don't need a reason to decline a date, we don't even have to decline - we can be booked/unavailable.

I don't mind speculating......I mean the list of ladies is short who are highly reviewed with those hints....

I guess ill ask backchannel.....that's a damn shame for the new hobbyist though.

As far a safety goes....if a provider had a known disease it couldn't and wouldn't stay posted. All the reviews would be deleted to protect those affected....but guess what. They are still gonna hobby. Can someone have the testicular fortitude or the "ovarian audacity" to post who this is please.

Or just pm me so I know who to avoid as others want to know....I won't tell nobody........same result.

This is just another "provider murder" alert thread with no info in site. Originally Posted by gimme_that

The purpose of the thread is not to out anyone. Read it again. tess said it from the first and SHE held to it. Is it really so inconceivable that a provider can actually say what she means and mean what she says? It is? Well you now know of at least two. YOU want a witch hunt and this thread will hopefully continue in the tone in which it was started. We are all supposed to be adults here right?

Right?????

It could be that there are a lot more people (providers and clients) who are doing bbfs than anyone is aware of. Originally Posted by JxnBiLady

There is no "could be" about it. I have no doubt whatsoever in my mind that a lot of people do/have done BBFS and simply don't talk about it because of the shitstorm that generally follows such an admission. That's why my position is that I always protect myself, because I simply can't assume that anyone else is protecting themselves.

Cheers,

bcg

from someone who is ADAMANT about hygiene and looking for any type of signs...

What are the risks related to oral sex?

Oral sex risk:

One common question that we get asked is “what are the risks related to oral sex?” We will address the most commonly transmitted infections via oral sex.

The risk to men when receiving oral sex:

The most common infections that are transmitted via oral sex are gonorrhea, syphilis and possibly chlamydia. Often there are no symptoms when people have these infections in the throat. I know it is hard to believe that when you are peeing “razor blades” that your partner had no symptoms in their throat.

If someone has herpes simplex on the mouth (cold sores) this could pass to the genitals. Herpes is most infectious when a sore is present to when it is completely healed back to good skin. There is some risk of shedding the virus when there is no sore. A good resource for Herpes information is www.herpesresourcecenter.com

The risk from HIV is considered extremely low. STD’s such as herpes or syphilis could increase the risk of HIV.

Risk for the person performing oral sex on a woman:

The STD risks could be herpes, syphilis and possibly hepatitis B. Even if a woman had chlamydia or gonorrhea it would be difficult to pass these infections to the throat of the person performing oral sex.

The risk from HIV is considered extremely low. STD’s such as herpes or syphilis could increase the risk of HIV.

The risk to a woman when receiving oral sex:

Again the main concern would be from herpes and syphilis.

Risk to the person performing oral sex on a man:

The most common infections that can pass to the throat are gonorrhea, syphilis and possibly chlamydia.

HIV is a known risk but is considered very low. Ejaculate (cum) in the mouth could increase the risk if you have open sores, bleeding gums or a throat infection.

Hepatitis B is also a possible risk.

What risk is OK for me?

This is a very individual question and everyone has to make up their own mind of what risk is acceptable. For example someone could have lower risk sexual contact but if they did get an STD the impact on their personal life would be problematic. I.e. someone with a steady partner, who contracts gonorrhea through oral sex, while easily treated, may have issues to consider regarding steady partner e.g. will they need treatment. So there are infection risks but also “social risks” to consider when deciding what type of sex you are having.

What symptoms would I notice?

Urethritis means inflammation of the urethra (pee tube). It can be caused by gonorrhea, chlamydia or other pathogens. The most common symptoms include burning when you pee, discharge from the penis and an itch or “awareness” in the urethra. If someone has urethritis, and tests for chlamydia and gonorrhea are negative, then it is commonly called non gonococcal urethritis (NGU). They are all easily treated with antibiotics.

Syphilis: May have a non-painful open sore and/or a rash on the trunk or palms.

Herpes: Usually painful open sores.

Sometimes a sore throat could be caused by gonorrhea.

Remember most STD/HIV show no symptoms, which is why we always recommend regular testing.

In summary:

•Oral sex is lower risk than vaginal or rectal sex.
•That it is impossible to look at an individual and determine if they have any infection.
•Most STD’s do not show symptoms so it is a good idea to get regular testing.
•Infectious such as Chlamydia, gonorrhea and syphilis are 100% curable, but if left untreated can cause irreversible damage to the body.
•Hepatitis B vaccination will protect you and is free at our clinics or your public health unit.
•We know that it can be embarrassing to discuss these issues, but remember our clinics offer confidential testing and we are use to discussing these topics.
•To reduce your risk of oral sex men can wear condoms and dental dams can be used for vaginal contact.

protection is the answer ,but its not bullet proof,i read a post in another forum last week about BBFS ,and one guy said he would do it with a provider if she had her bluecard,how stupid,the blood test was only good from the time they drew the sample,hell she could have picked up something before the results came back

Potential for Transmission
In fellatio, there is potential for transmission to the partner giving fellatio (the person sucking or licking the penis) because pre-cum or semen can get into the mouth. A healthy mouth is generally a hostile environment for HIV, because an enzyme in saliva has been shown to inhibit HIV.

The risk of transmission of HIV to the partner giving fellatiois increased if there are conditions such as bleeding gums, cuts, sores, lesions, ulcers or burns in the mouth or by a recent tooth extraction. Risk can be reduced by using a condom. Speculation that the risk of transmission is increased if ejaculate (cum) is swallowed now appears unfounded, since enzymes in the mouth, throat and the stomach are known to inhibit HIV. The risk of transmission relates to taking ejaculate or pre-cum in an unhealthy or wounded mouth, not into the digestive system, which is a hostile environment for HIV.

It is also recommended that the partner giving fellatio wait 30 minutes to two hours after brushing or flossing teeth before engaging in fellatio, since brushing and flossing teeth may cause temporary bleeding of the gums.

In getting fellatio, risk is negligible. A small quantity of blood from bleeding gums or sores in the mouth could come into contact with broken skin on the penis, and/or the urethra (pee tube).
However, the small amount of blood that would be passed under such conditions makes infection very unlikely.

If the mouth is healthy, the risk involved in either giving or getting head can be regarded as quite remote.

Evidence of Transmission
Transmission of HIV is reported to have occurred through giving fellatio. It is only reported to have occurred very rarely, usually in circumstances where there are bleeding gums, cuts, sores, lesions, ulcers or burns in the mouth.

Much of the evidence of transmission during fellatio is based on isolated case reports. Several of the earliest studies of men who have sex with men failed to show that giving fellatio carried a significant risk. Some later studies have shown a risk but it is much smaller than for other activities, such as penile–anal intercourse without a barrier. Overall, the evidence indicates that transmission through giving fellatio is a relatively rare occurrence and therefore it is classified as low risk.

There have been no documented cases of transmission through getting fellatio.

Assessment of Risk of HIV Transmission
Fellatio (performing)
With condom . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Negligible Risk*
Without condom and taking semen and/or
pre-ejaculate in the mouth . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Low Risk
Fellatio (receiving)
With condom . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Negligible Risk*
Without condom . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Negligible Risk
* There is enough evidence of breakage or improper use of
barrier methods to classify this activity as negligible rather than
no risk.


Risk definitions:

Negligible risk
Activities that come under this risk category have a potential for HIV transmission because they involve the exchange of body fluids. But there are no confirmed reports of infection
from these activities.
Potential for transmission . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Yes
Evidence of transmission . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . None

Low risk
Activities that come under this risk category have a potential for HIV transmission because they involve the exchange of body fluids. But there are a few reports of infection
attributed to these activities (usually through individual
case studies or anecdotal reports, and usually under certain
identifiable conditions).
Potential for transmission . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Yes
Evidence of transmission . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Yes
(under certain conditions)

A good example of this is syphilis which can show signs of a sore and/or rash. If left both of these will go away but the infection will still be in your body.

The worst possible outcomes for the different treatable infections are:

For chlamydia and gonorrhea

How they could affect men if left untreated:
• Infertility.
• Makes it easier for HIV to get into your body.

How they could affect woman if left untreated:
• Infertility
• Increased risk for ectopic pregnancy
• Pelvic inflammatory disease http://www.stdresource.com/disease/i...ction=viewfull
• Makes it easier for HIV to get into your body

For Syphilis
• In the late stages of syphilis it may damage the internal organs (this could include the brain, nerves, eyes, heart, blood vessels, liver, bones and joints).
• You could notice difficulty coordinating muscle movement, paralysis, numbness, gradual blindness and dementia.
• A good example of the effects of the later stages of syphilis is the American gangster Al Capone
• It can be dangerous for the fetus if a pregnant woman gets syphilis.


Chlamydia, gonorrhea and syphilis are treatable with antibiotics

Fingering (digital penetration) is considered safer sex but there are a few things you need to be careful about.

It is possible to introduce bacteria or other fluids (including semen, vaginal fluid, blood or feces) into the vagina with your fingers. Be careful not to place your finger in the anus (bum) before you touch the vagina.

So it is important that you wash your hands before and after fingering. Soap and water works well.

Also it is best to keep nails trimmed. Long or sharp nails can scratch the vagina or the anus. Broken skin can increase the chances of bacteria entering the body and causing an infection.

To be extra safe you could use latex or medical exam gloves

protection is the answer ,but its not bullet proof, Originally Posted by lowgear

The only bullet proof protection is to go entirely celibate for the rest of your life.

As I said before, I doubt anyone here is going to go that route.

Cheers,

bcg

Non-gonococcal urethritis (NGU)What is NGU?
NGU is a disease in men caused by an infection in the urethra (the tube that carries urine and semen through the penis).
How do you get it?
NGU is often a sexually transmitted disease. Like gonorrhea, it does not require penetration to spread between partners. Close physical contact may be enough. The various bacteria that cause NGU can also be found in your throat and rectum. You can develop urethritis from bacteria that are normally present in a partner's mouth and then spread to your urethra during unprotected oral sex. Older men with prostate enlargement or men who require frequent catheterizations (passing a catheter down your urethra to your bladder to empty urine), are also at risk for developing urethritis. In these cases, many different types of bacteria can cause the infection. Men who pass foreign objects into their urethra are also at risk for infections.
What are the symptoms?
A slight burning feeling when passing water, an itching inside the penis, or a clear to creamy white fluid from the end of the penis. Some men with NGU show no symptoms, or the signs may be so mild that they go unnoticed. Usually, the symptoms are seen or felt more in the morning.
How do I know I have NGU?
You must have a medical exam that includes samples taken from the penis.
What if I don't get it treated?
If not treated, the infection can spread and cause damage to other organs in your body.
What is the treatment?
Antibiotic pills. Carefully follow instructions for taking the pills, and continue to take them until all pills are taken. It's best that people you have had sex with, male and female, are tested and treated. (Some of the germs that cause NGU in men may cause cervicitis in women. Cervicitis is an infection in the cervix - the opening of the womb).

shall i carry on???