should wealthy Americans be allowed to collect Social Security?

I started working in 1968 and (except for my couple of years in the military) paid in the maximum each year to social security. That money, and the money paid in by my employer, is MY money. In no way does it belong to the government. I don't care if you consider me, or anyone else, rich or poor, by whatever standard you might use to determine if someone is rich or poor. Social Security was set up as a forced savings program guaranteeing (I hope) people a level of income that was never intended to be the sole source of income but rather a supplement. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

See folks do not understand wtf SS really is.

Speed...it is not your money...if you don't believe me go down there and demand they give it back and see how much you get!

The problem is that most folks do not understand the history of SS and that Medicare is a huge factor in the equation.

No i do not think i should receive SS , when a person net worth drops below say your 5 mil hypothetical then it would kick back in.

But let me inject a thought...until we stop leaving iou's in that fund to pay for Defense spending SS will be a can that always gets kicked down the road with temporary fixes. Originally Posted by WTF

Hey man, if you don't think you deserve it, don't cash the checks!!

Other than the forced healthcare insurance, Social Security insurance is the only insurance you are forced to pay and it is not an option unless you work for a government approved or government entity that has a defined pension plan. For the vast majority of people, it is viewed as little more than an additional employment or income tax. More like the price you have to pay for having a job.

In most insurance schemes that you voluntarily buy into, if the terms of how they are going to pay you off change you have options such as getting your money back or converting to a different plan. It is generally a contract that is enforceable and you have recourse unlike SS in which the pay terms can change and you have no recourse. You will still be required to pay and have no other option.

This means that if the government decides to eliminate a whole lot of potential bneficiaries by subjecting them to a means test, you are in essence getting fucked over from the promise that you would get yours once you retire just like everybody else. I think we fought a revolution over just such things back in the day.

The ADA did more to further the bankruptcy path of SS than most anything else. When people can claim a disability just so they can get a paid ride on the wagon yet still be fully capable of pulling the wagon, you are seeing a drain like never before.

See folks do not understand wtf SS really is.

Speed...it is not your money...if you don't believe me go down there and demand they give it back and see how much you get! Originally Posted by WTF

I have a contract with the government. Each month I get an amount of money from them based on how much money I, and my company, "invested". The more I gave them each month, the more I get back today. No, there is no such thing as a "lump-sum payment" as there is with my pension, but believe me when I say no one in my company takes a lump-sum payment. Simply does not work out in your favor over monthly benefits.

Here is Investopedia's definition of Social Security. Unless I'm reading it incorrectly, it works as I stated:

Today, the program is funded through payroll taxes collected by employees and companies; monies are placed into the Social Security Trust Fund and payments are managed by the government along with the Federal Reserve Board.

I'm interested in reading why you disagree.

Other than the forced healthcare insurance, Social Security insurance is the only insurance you are forced to pay and it is not an option unless you work for a government approved or government entity that has a defined pension plan. For the vast majority of people, it is viewed as little more than an additional employment or income tax. More like the price you have to pay for having a job.

In most insurance schemes that you voluntarily buy into, if the terms of how they are going to pay you off change you have options such as getting your money back or converting to a different plan. It is generally a contract that is enforceable and you have recourse unlike SS in which the pay terms can change and you have no recourse. You will still be required to pay and have no other option.

This means that if the government decides to eliminate a whole lot of potential bneficiaries by subjecting them to a means test, you are in essence getting fucked over from the promise that you would get yours once you retire just like everybody else. I think we fought a revolution over just such things back in the day.

The ADA did more to further the bankruptcy path of SS than most anything else. When people can claim a disability just so they can get a paid ride on the wagon yet still be fully capable of pulling the wagon, you are seeing a drain like never before. Originally Posted by The2Dogs

The problem is a "voluntary" system would not work. People want it all today, and rarely think about the future. I have no problem with options to SS as long as it is mandatory. Libertarians do not believe in the SS system and have always pushed the following:

Libertarians believe you should be able to opt out of Social Security and invest your money in your own personal retirement account. An account that you own and control - one that politicians can't get their hands on.

Problem is the SS taxes you pay today are paying someone else's benefits.

If they paid into it they should receive it. Originally Posted by i'va biggen

Absolutely....I've paid tens of thousands into this government boondoggle and I expect to get every penny back plus interest....

Yes...I intend to live long enough to do that!!!!

I have a contract with the government. Each month I get an amount of money from them based on how much money I, and my company, "invested". The more I gave them each month, the more I get back today. No, there is no such thing as a "lump-sum payment" as there is with my pension, but believe me when I say no one in my company takes a lump-sum payment. Simply does not work out in your favor over monthly benefits.

Here is Investopedia's definition of Social Security. Unless I'm reading it incorrectly, it works as I stated:

Today, the program is funded through payroll taxes collected by employees and companies; monies are placed into the Social Security Trust Fund and payments are managed by the government along with the Federal Reserve Board.

I'm interested in reading why you disagree. Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

That's out of date by a loooong time.....the money collected used to go into the trust fund and SS was always solvent......but back in the late 1960's the democrats wanted to get their hands on all that money to spend it on other bullshit and changed the rules where now all money collected for SS just goes into the general fund and gets spent on what-ever......and that's why its going broke....

Isn't wealth relative? to whom? you, me or Bill Gates?

anyone with a net worth in excess of 5 Million dollars. that's calculated correctly of course.

by that standard i'm actually setting the bar low. on purpose. anyone worth a real net worth of 5 million or more should not need Social Security.

they still pay in obviously. Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

So they need guns, but you're willing to take the decision out of their hands on this and say they don't need SS? The good ole conservative shit step.

That's out of date by a loooong time.....the money collected used to go into the trust fund and SS was always solvent......but back in the late 1960's the democrats wanted to get their hands on all that money to spend it on other bullshit and changed the rules where now all money collected for SS just goes into the general fund and gets spent on what-ever......and that's why its going broke.... Originally Posted by Lucky 1

1967: LBJ and the democrats in Congress folded the SS trust fund into the general budget to hid the cost of the Vietnam War. For all the idiots who talk about how much Iraq cost or how money was wasted, here is your classic example of corruption and you should be pissed....but you're not. They are your people who did it.

1967: LBJ and the democrats in Congress folded the SS trust fund into the general budget to hid the cost of the Vietnam War. For all the idiots who talk about how much Iraq cost or how money was wasted, here is your classic example of corruption and you should be pissed....but you're not. They are your people who did it. Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

So it's ok that Bush spent billions because a Democrat made it possible?

You will say and do ANYTHING to cast aspersions on the liberal side and keep the right squeaky clean. Anything.

OMG the fucking idiot has posted his mother's picture again, is there no end to his stupidity? I could buy and sell your welfare ass twice, and not miss the money. Originally Posted by i'va biggen

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this is the biggest lie ever posted on Eccie

So it's ok that Bush spent billions because a Democrat made it possible?

You will say and do ANYTHING to cast aspersions on the liberal side and keep the right squeaky clean. Anything. Originally Posted by WombRaider

And you would NEVER do THAT for your fellow lying liberals, now would ya woomby !!

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This is the biggest lie ever posted on Eccie Originally Posted by cptjohnstone

Even bigger than you link to the wrong airplane hillbilly? You are a childish SOB little yapper YIP YIP YIP.

So let's say you've retired in the last year at 63 and have been paid the maximum SS (excluding medicare tax) the last 40 quarters you are going to get around $2000 a month. That's $24K a year.

Let also say you make $400K a year. That's Obama's definition of "wealthy." So receiving that extra $24K a year is going to be taxed at 40%

Given that about 1% or less fall into this scenario, "what difference at this point does it make?" Of course you should get the SS you paid into. The govt is going to get a huge chunk back anyway.

Same thing with Medicare. Over the last ten years you could theoretically paid over a million dollars into it since there hasn't been a ceiling.

So let's say you've retired in the last year at 63 and have been paid the maximum SS (excluding medicare tax) the last 40 quarters you are going to get around $2000 a month. That's $24K a year.

Let also say you make $400K a year. That's Obama's definition of "wealthy." So receiving that extra $24K a year is going to be taxed at 40%

Given that about 1% or less fall into this scenario, "what difference at this point does it make?" Of course you should get the SS you paid into. The govt is going to get a huge chunk back anyway.

Same thing with Medicare. Over the last ten years you could theoretically paid over a million dollars into it since there hasn't been a ceiling. Originally Posted by gnadfly

$400K a year isn't wealthy? What's your definition of 'wealthy'?