Could the Middle East be the 1914 Balkans of the 21st Century

Was going to war with Iraq the correct thing to do? Originally Posted by WTF

Was pulling out of Iraq in toto the "correct" thing for Obama to do in 2011 so he could claim "the tide of war is receding" when he ran for re-election in 2012?

Wouldn't we be better off now if he had left behind 10,000 troops as a bulwark against exactly what we are witnessing - an al queda resurgence?

Was pulling out of Iraq in toto the "correct" thing for Obama to do in 2011 so he could claim "the tide of war is receding" when he ran for re-election in 2012?

Wouldn't we be better off now if he had left behind 10,000 TARGETS as a bulwark against exactly what we are witnessing - an al queda resurgence? Originally Posted by lustylad

More likely scenario.

More likely scenario. Originally Posted by Jackie S

Depends. Leaving behind 5,000 troops would be meaningless since that is barely enough to defend ourselves and we would indeed be little more than "targets". Leaving behind 10,000+ would allow us to be more pro-active and respond to contingencies as needed.

Ditto for Afghanistan. We need to leave behind 10,000+ to have any meaningful capabilities. Didn't Obama call Afghanistan a "war of necessity"?

Weren't you fucktards saying a while back Obie did not pull out he was only following Bushes timeline?

That's true, LittleEva. Obama wanted to stay, apparently lying about ending the war. The Iraqis wanted us out, so they held to Bush's timeline. Iraq is Iraq's problem. We should never have gone in, and we stayed way too long. Same with Afghanistan.

That's true, LittleEva. Obama wanted to stay, apparently lying about ending the war. The Iraqis wanted us out, so they held to Bush's timeline. Iraq is Iraq's problem. We should never have gone in, and we stayed way too long. Same with Afghanistan. Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Amen to that CrotchetyOldGuy!!

Was pulling out of Iraq in toto the "correct" thing for Obama to do in 2011 so he could claim "the tide of war is receding" when he ran for re-election in 2012?

Wouldn't we be better off now if he had left behind 10,000 troops as a bulwark against exactly what we are witnessing - an al queda resurgence? Originally Posted by lustylad

Why do we have any responsibility whatsoever in the Middle East? Let the UN handle it.

The UN couldn't police the Balkans, how do they police the Middle East?

Why do we have any responsibility whatsoever in the Middle East? Originally Posted by Bert Jones

9/11, you idiot. We have a responsibility to our fellow citizens to make sure it never happens again. In case you forgot, al queda hangs out in the Middle East and plots 24/7 to kill Americans. That includes you, Bertie.

You greatly exaggerate. Kamikaze pilots did not "cause considerable damage" in WWII. Their impact was more psychological than tangible. The US Navy quickly adjusted its tactics to shoot most of them down before they could crash into our ships.

US soldiers are professionally trained to kill the enemy, not themselves. They believe in giving the enemy every possible opportunity to die for his cause or his country. If an enemy is reckless or desperate or ideological and wants to die, that often just makes it easier. I'm glad our soldiers prefer to stay alive. That allows us to kill more of them. Who would you rather have fighting for you? Originally Posted by lustylad

http://www.airgroup4.com/kamikaze.htm

http://www.airgroup4.com/kamikaze.htm Originally Posted by Jackie S

Damnnn! .... thanks Jackie

9/11, you idiot. We have a responsibility to our fellow citizens to make sure it never happens again. In case you forgot, al queda hangs out in the Middle East and plots 24/7 to kill Americans. That includes you, Bertie. Originally Posted by lustylad

That checks the box for vengeance, but not responsibility for the mess.

That's true, LittleEva. Obama wanted to stay, apparently lying about ending the war. The Iraqis wanted us out, so they held to Bush's timeline. Iraq is Iraq's problem. We should never have gone in, and we stayed way too long. Same with Afghanistan. Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Hillary failed to get a status of forces agreement. That failure makes the entire effort meaningless. That loss of blood and gold is on her along with the ultimate loss of Iraq. Obama also has to take the blame. If Hillary failed then a good CEO would have stepped in personally. Obama likes to keep failure at arms length.

As far as the Kamikazi reference goes; the Kamikazi caused considerable damage when they were employed. By the time they came into being we had such control of the air that no normal air attack had any reasonable chance of success. Only someone who attacked with regard for the own lives could hope to survive just long enough for a single attack. After 1944 for every plane the Japanese could put in the air, the US could put three in the air. Those numbers became less after the loss of so many trained pilots. Kamikazi's did not need to be trained so well. I think 9/11 tells the rest of the story.

http://www.airgroup4.com/kamikaze.htm Originally Posted by Jackie S

+1

"Following the [Okinawa] campaign's official end, the U.S. Navy revealed that thirty-three ships had been sunk, chiefly by kamikazes, 368 ships and craft damaged, more than fifty seriously. Carriers also lost 539 planes... On some days, up to 90% of the [Japanese] planes delivering the mass attacks, conventional and kamikaze together, were destroyed – a total of 7830 for the three months [1 April – 22 June 1945] of the Okinawan campaign" (213, Tennozan).

"The final toll of U.S. naval casualties over the course of the Okinawa campaign would be 4907 killed or missing and 4824 wounded, far more than in any previous battle of the war, including one sided Pearl Harbor, where less than half that number died. Nearly 20% of the U.S. Navy's total casualties in the Pacific, Atlantic and all smaller seas throughout the war were inflicted off Okinawa" (229, Tennozan).

http://eccie.net/showpost.php?p=1053...&postcount=154

Damnnn! .... thanks Jackie Originally Posted by IIFFOFRDB

+1