6th Circuit Upholds Obamacare

Look, Doovie, you admitted driving is an option. You’ve admitted that I couldn’t hurt anyone or his or her property if I am not driving without insurance. BTW, in Texas you don’t need insurance if you can demonstrate financial responsibility. Breathing to stay alive isn’t an option. You are being obtuse and therefore your argument is with out merit and further comment is not warranted. You are so dogmatic you read what you want to read not what is actual written.

…………You really do need to stop arguing with yourself and start addressing my points as they are actually stated…………. Originally Posted by Doove

I’m trying to, but you are so filled with anger you can’t stop to consider what I’m saying. You think in terms of your anger reaction not the logic in which the argument is presented. I truly wish to debate with you, not fill in for your wife as you rage.

I said in a way that's fair. Allowing people to wait until they get sick, and then going out and purchasing insurance is not fair. I'm no fan of insurance companies, believe me, but frankly, i can't see how that would be fair to them. And i certainly don't see how that goes towards bringing down the costs of health insurance. Maybe we can also let people wait until they have an accident before buying car insurance. Oh, that's right, breathing isn't optional. Originally Posted by Doove

Yes it is. Nothing ever, least of all insurance company profits should get in the way of a human being and health care. Frankly, this statement is unkind. Just because someone has cancer and loses their job is no reason they should lose their coverage or have to pay the extreme price to maintain COBRA whilst they are unemployed. All pre-existing conditions should be covered.

This is just stupid.

Ah, so your first choice was someone who campaigned on the idea of a mandate. But now that Obama signed one into law, you think it's the worst thing in the world. The puzzle is starting to come together.

She finished one term. I'm from New York, remember? So i would know. So yeah, her 4 extra years as a Senator would make her more qualified on just so many levels :eye roll:

And this makes Hillary more qualified.......how? Originally Posted by Doove

I know you are, but what am I. You big dummy head. This is a debate. You don’t use childish terms. You are said I’m a bitter Hillary supporter because she didn’t win? No, I don’t like Obama for a myriad of reasons. The fact that you don’t like women isn’t a legitimate reason to assume I don’t support Obama because I supported Hillary.

So, for the last time………………….My Love……………..I AM PRO CENTRALIZED, SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE FOR ALL THAT CANNOT AFFORD PRIVATE, MORE CONVIENIENT ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE. DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR?

I stand corrected. She served one, six-year senatorial term. Obama wrote three books during his two years before he started campaigning for the presidency. She was also the First Lady for eight years and a partner in a law firm for many years. Obama was what? A community organizer. An author whilst he was employed by the good people of the United States of America. A visiting law professor for a couple a months? Please. He’s a professional at tagging-along.

Hillary was a participant in the judiciary, the national and international scene for a long time. No sorry, I’m not bitter over ovaries. I’m tired of incompetent leadership. The last ten years have been abysmal.

Your bitterness and hatred sickens me. My point is made. Yours is screamed from the rooftops of the shoddy sewer of anger. Carry on; I’m done. The others have presented actual arguments. Or even if they are on the attack, they cloak it in humor and jest. You don’t. You just hate.

So, for the last time………………….My Love……………..I AM PRO CENTRALIZED, SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE FOR ALL THAT CANNOT AFFORD PRIVATE, MORE CONVIENIENT ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE. DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR? Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

That is just about what everyone is for that stands on the Dem side of the aisle. The problem is not Obama, the problem was the Repub's on the other side of the aisle. They are why Obamacare is so watered down.

Is it a step in the right direction? I do not know but it is a step away from running odd a cliff. Anything is better tthan what we had. At least now more folks will be insured. That is the goal. That drives down healthcare.

Olivia, i'll let your last post speak entirely for itself.

That is just about what everyone is for that stands on the Dem side of the aisle. The problem is not Obama, the problem was the Repub's on the other side of the aisle. They are why Obamacare is so watered down.

Is it a step in the right direction? I do not know but it is a step away from running odd a cliff. Anything is better tthan what we had. At least now more folks will be insured. That is the goal. That drives down healthcare. Originally Posted by WTF

The victory here is based on exactly what anti-government advocates fear: once a government program exists it is very, very hard to take away. Health care support for those in the bottom 20% of the population will probably improve through entitlement creep. That's how things go. It almost certainly won't go away. I see that as a victory.

That is just about what everyone is for that stands on the Dem side of the aisle. The problem is not Obama, the problem was the Repub's on the other side of the aisle. They are why Obamacare is so watered down. Originally Posted by WTF

It is watered down so much because the Democrats caved to the financial desires of the insurance and medical industry. If the Democrats really wanted to create a single payer system, they should have done it or dropped it if there was too much push back from their own ranks and Republicans. Bottom line - Democrats outnumbered the Republicans. If they wanted single care and damn their contributes and lobbyists, they could have passed single payer. We are supposed to live in a republic not an industry driven and run oligarchy. The Democrats caved and Obama wanted it so badly, regardless of how bullshit the legislation was, for his legacy so he forced it through and signed a cobbled up, child of Frankenstein bill. Period. The end.

Is it a step in the right direction? I do not know but it is a step away from running odd a cliff. Anything is better tthan what we had. At least now more folks will be insured. That is the goal. That drives down healthcare. Originally Posted by WTF

Ya, but WTF, I don't feel that anyone extra will be covered. I think it will take years to even see the light of day. Do you know how much legal administration it will take just to interpret the cobbled together piece of legislation and the court findings?

I also think it will drive up the healthcare costs, not the converse. It will be like the $10,000 toilet seat sold to the DoD. Everything will go up because it is now run by an inefficient, government bureaucracy, and we will never, ever be able to put the genie back in the bottle.

will never, ever be able to put the genie back in the bottle.
Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

So let's see where we stand.

You think the mandate is evidence of how unqualified Obama is to be President, but your first choice in the last Presidential election cycle was someone who campaigned on a mandate.

You brag about not toeing the line of any one party, but are upset that the Democrats didn't all toe a party line.

You think the plan Obama signed will increase costs due to being run by an inefficient government bureaucracy, but think we should have passed a single payer universal system instead.

And that's just in this one thread.

*cue the "Doovie is angry and hates women" response.

Edit: Oh, and you criticize Obama for not keeping campaign promises, but you think he should have dropped his promise of reforming health insurance if he didn't get a plan that was acceptable to you.

It is watered down so much because the Democrats caved to the financial desires of the insurance and medical industry. If the Democrats really wanted to create a single payer system, they should have done it or dropped it if there was too much push back from their own ranks and Republicans. Bottom line - Democrats outnumbered the Republicans. If they wanted single care and damn their contributes and lobbyists, they could have passed single payer. We are supposed to live in a republic not an industry driven and run oligarchy. The Democrats caved and Obama wanted it so badly, regardless of how bullshit the legislation was, for his legacy so he forced it through and signed a cobbled up, child of Frankenstein bill. Period. The end.



. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Period. The end. The end of what?

Not one single Republican voted for it. The Republicans carried the water to the insurance industry...and a few Democrats. But every single Republican did.

So you blame the Dem's? I want some of wtf you are smoking!

Big money carried the day and it will only get worse with the Citizen United ruling by the Supremes! Another ruling the Repub's champion. Next you will blame big money on the Dem's!.

The funny thing is that all the GOP folks supported parts of healthcare reform until they thought they could use it aganist Obama.....read this little article if you actually want to learn how you have been Hoodwinked...

http://whatifpost.com/the-gops-obamacare-problem.htm

The recent Republican presidential debate in New Hampshire featured what is by now a familiar ritual– all of the GOP candidates fighting to prove that they are the one most against “Obamacare.”
But we wondered– do all the top GOP contenders really hate health care reform that much or was this just political posturing? So we looked into what they’ve said and voted for in the past. Turns out that nearly all of them have supported the same policies that they’re now attacking.

Ya, but WTF, I don't feel that anyone extra will be covered. I think it will take years to even see the light of day. Do you know how much legal administration it will take just to interpret the cobbled together piece of legislation and the court findings?

I also think it will drive up the healthcare costs, not the converse. It will be like the $10,000 toilet seat sold to the DoD. Everything will go up because it is now run by an inefficient, government bureaucracy, and we will never, ever be able to put the genie back in the bottle. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Do you understand that the genie was already out of the freaking bottle...we presently pay 16% of our GDP to health care. If that ain't a genie stomping up your ass I don't know WTF is!

Wake up Missy and smell the roses, you act as if doing nothing was better than the alternative.

And not to be rude but who gives a fluck how you 'feel'....that is not what we are talking about. 32 million more Americans will have coverage after this is implimented regardless of how you 'feel'.

Do you think we should quit funding Defense spending altogether because of a 10k toliet seat or do you think we should start being more prudent in government spending?

That was the goal of Obamacare before big business tore it apart. It still is a step in the right directions. Maybe we should admit that our present form of government is not working because it citizen get most of their facts from opinion shows nowadays! Tell that to thoses zombie flag waving citizens that do not have time to actually know wtf they are talking about on issues.

So we looked into what they’ve said and voted for in the past. Turns out that nearly all of them have supported the same policies that they’re now attacking.
Originally Posted by WTF

Kind of like Olivia voting for Hillary and now speaking out about how horrible the mandate is.

Olivia isn't hoodwinked, WTF, she's doing the hoodwinking.

She hates Obama because he's not Hillary Clinton.

Period. The end. The end of what?

Not one single Republican voted for it. The Republicans carried the water to the insurance industry...and a few Democrats. But every single Republican did.

So you blame the Dem's? I want some of wtf you are smoking!

Big money carried the day and it will only get worse with the Citizen United ruling by the Supremes! Another ruling the Repub's champion. Next you will blame big money on the Dem's!. Originally Posted by WTF

My point is this: The issue is access to decent healthcare. There are those, both Democrats and Republicans, that want to pander to their special interest groups that pay for their campaigns and their perks and there are those that want to help the poor and middle classes gain reasonable, realizable and cost effective access to healthcare. I am aware that no Republicans voted for it. If it was such an imperative piece of legislation for the Obama legacy the Democrats that caved shouldn’t have to their special interest groups. Obama had the majority in both houses and barely passed the bill. For the record, I think it is just as deplorable the Republican played such an ugly game of partisan politics. It’s one of the problems I have with our governing bodies lately. They are so divided it sickens me. It’s much more important that everyone who wants government ran healthcare have access than the interests of wealthy and entrenched special groups.

The funny thing is that all the GOP folks supported parts of healthcare reform until they thought they could use it aganist Obama.....read this little article if you actually want to learn how you have been Hoodwinked...

http://whatifpost.com/the-gops-obamacare-problem.htm

The recent Republican presidential debate in New Hampshire featured what is by now a familiar ritual– all of the GOP candidates fighting to prove that they are the one most against “Obamacare.”
But we wondered– do all the top GOP contenders really hate health care reform that much or was this just political posturing? So we looked into what they’ve said and voted for in the past. Turns out that nearly all of them have supported the same policies that they’re now attacking. Originally Posted by WTF

No, the Republicans are just posturing. Obama had the opportunity to get this done, but he failed to because of lack of leadership and HIS cratering to special interest groups. He had the opportunity and he blew it. I don’t hate Obama for his ideals, I don’t like him because he is ineffective and that is his inexperience and blowing with the wind track record showing through.

Do you understand that the genie was already out of the freaking bottle...we presently pay 16% of our GDP to health care. If that ain't a genie stomping up your ass I don't know WTF is!

Wake up Missy and smell the roses, you act as if doing nothing was better than the alternative. Originally Posted by WTF

Missy isn’t here just now so I’ll give it a crack all by my lonesome. No, I’m not for doing nothing. Read my suggested approach earlier in the thread. You’ve not read the entire thread. I’m down on Obama because he didn’t do enough. I’m down on Obama and the Democrats because they sold American healthcare down the sewer to the special interest groups.

And not to be rude but who gives a fluck how you 'feel'....that is not what we are talking about. 32 million more Americans will have coverage after this is implimented regardless of how you 'feel'. Originally Posted by WTF

Actually Missy and I give a fuck how I feel. Right now I’m still a little sore recovering from my tummy tuck. Ok, substitutes feel for think. I don’t feel bla bla is a good idea, or I don’t think bla bla is a good idea. It’s one of those tricky English words. They have so many meanings.

Do you think we should quit funding Defense spending altogether because of a 10k toliet seat or do you think we should start being more prudent in government spending? Originally Posted by WTF

Of course WTF, I think that spending should be more controlled and the government agencies need to be more efficient. I think anyone reading my comments above would have drawn that conclusion.

That was the goal of Obamacare before big business tore it apart. It still is a step in the right directions. Maybe we should admit that our present form of government is not working because it citizen get most of their facts from opinion shows nowadays! Tell that to thoses zombie flag waving citizens that do not have time to actually know wtf they are talking about on issues. Originally Posted by WTF

Exactly, the big business that the Democratically controlled Congress and White House caved to. They did it all on their own. They didn’t need the Republican votes. The Democrats sold the American people out. Plain and simply.

I believe you’ve stated your point. I’ve stated mine. I’m going to go get ready to have cabrito at Hugo’s tonight. Carry on if you like, but alas, again we are an impasse. We don’t agree. I’m cool with that.

Kind of like Olivia voting for Hillary and now speaking out about how horrible the mandate is.

Olivia isn't hoodwinked, WTF, she's doing the hoodwinking.

She hates Obama because he's not Hillary Clinton. Originally Posted by Doove

Your tirades are juvenile. You are trying the oldest trick in the book: throwing the dog off the scent and trying to twist my words. Karl Rove was a master at the art, and I'm too smart to fall for it.

I'm down on Obama because he sold out and fucked up his opportunity to get healthcare for his fellow Americans not because he's not Hillary Clinton.

Peace out boyz..

Your tirades are juvenile. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

I'll compare the heat of my rhetoric to, say, WTF's in this thread any day. (No offense, WTF). I think i've been quite reserved - but that hasn't stopped you from changing the subject to my supposed "anger".

You are trying the oldest trick in the book: throwing the dog off the scent and trying to twist my words.

No, Olivia, you've very clearly stated each position exactly as i pointed them out just a few posts ago. I'm not twisting your words.

And for the record, the oldest trick in the book is pulling out the misogynist card when you're getting your hypocrisy pointed out to you, as you've done more than once in this thread. What's next? Calling me a racist?

Karl Rove was a master at the art, and I'm too smart to fall for it.

Actually, Karl Rove's most famous tactic was attacking his opponent's strengths. Does this sound familiar?

"Do you even like women? I mean I know you have a hard on for me, but in general, do you hate women as much as you seem ?"

Or this?

"I’m trying to, but you are so filled with anger you can’t stop to consider what I’m saying. You think in terms of your anger reaction not the logic in which the argument is presented. I truly wish to debate with you, not fill in for your wife as you rage."

Clearly i've struck a nerve with you, Olivia. Your reaction to my posts vs your reaction to WTF's is clear evidence of that. I suspect the difference is that he's disagreeing with you, while i'm pointing out that you're disagreeing with yourself - while also pointing out what that means regarding your true agenda.

I'm down on Obama because he sold out and fucked up his opportunity to get healthcare for his fellow Americans not because he's not Hillary Clinton.

So you liked him before he signed the health care law? Or is this just another one of your self contradicting statements?

No, the Republicans are just posturing.






.. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

The Repub's are posturing but the Dem's sold out?

How about a few Dem's sold out. Not all and certanily not Obama. He worked the best deal he could get. Had he not he would have gotten the exact same result Hilliary Clinton got in '94. Nothing. Notta. Not a thing would have changed.

Exactly, the big business that the Democratically controlled Congress and White House caved to. They did it all on their own. They didn’t need the Republican votes. The Democrats sold the American people out. Plain and simply.

.. Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

No it is not plain and simple.

What is plain and simple is that big business controls the levers of government.

Had there been any Republicans that had any sense of justice for the country instead of their party then it would not have been so easy to buy those few Dem's.

What you might ponder while waving the flag tomorrow is did our founding fathers set up a form of government that truly helps the little man. History shows not some will disagree but all one has to do it take a look back and see that fortunes have been made off the backs of the little man since day one. Those Injuns sure weren't delt with fairly, nor the slaves, then the poor Irish, Poles and the rest of Europe......now it is the Mexicans. This country was founded on cheap labor. Plain and Simple.

Big business runs this country, always has and always will. Everything else is just lip service.

I'll compare the heat of my rhetoric to, say, WTF's in this thread any day. (No offense, WTF).? Originally Posted by Doove

No offense taken, I'm proud to be juvenile.

No offense taken, I'm proud to be juvenile. Originally Posted by WTF

And i'm proud to be a "puerile infant".